New mechanics for carrying weight + Backpacks

[Badgzerz]

The current weight system is set up only to consider weight and weight reduction. Its adequate but there are many times where I wish I could trade this for that. And there are many times where I wish I could have a backpack that has the ability for me to attach things to for quick access. Many times I wish I could have a contractor tool belt because I am building and there is little chance for combat and carrying lots of loot. 

 

BACKPACKS

     I think an overhaul of backpacks would be interesting. Backpacks not described or listed here will not be affected. Currently PZ just has what I will call sack packs because they are just bags you stuff items into. But in real life we also have basket packs which trappers and bushcrafters use and we can have bare backpack frames which you can tie things onto (the same way a carpenter ties lumber to the roofrack on his truck, he doesn't stuff them into a bag or into a box. I'll make up a term and call them rackpacks. I've just described two new backpack types. The problem they solve is speed of (un)packing items, accessibility for hotbars, and generally they allow for specialization by sacrificing the versatility of sackpacks. 

 

Rackpacks (bare backpack frames) These will degrade with use regardless of what pack is attached to them and require either carpentry or metalworking to maintain. Wearing a bare frame means you need twine/rope/HDPE twine/nylon cord to secure items to the frame and you can only secure items that weigh more than 1.5 to the frame. This style of carrying items nets the highest possible capacity but you need to put your backpack on the ground to (un)pack it and it will take substantially longer to do so. This pack would excel in loading up logs, planks, sheets, pipes, and other bulky items for bulk transport elsewhere. It would be nothing but a liability if speed matters. 

• Alice frame (Both military pack variants are attached to this, and can be removed from it) It is very durable, but it is heavy and has the highest movement speed penalty when loaded with weight
• Expedition frame (Both hiking pack variants are attached to this and can be removed from it) It is the lightest, carries almost as much as the alice frame, and has little movement speed penalty. It is less durable than the alice frame, and requires a much higher metalworking skill to maintain, thus it is less renewable and practical for everyday use. Its a premium frame.
• Handmade frame It is the worst frame in every way except for speed penalty and weight. With low carpentry it is crap, but with high carpentry it can be a decent frame that has the versatility of being a frame while also being infinitely renewable. A several year game will see you running out of factory made backpacks and clothes. 

 

Basketpacks are handcrafted and attached to frames. These are a favorite of trappers and bushcrafters because everything is very easily accessed in them. These packs sacrifice loot security and carry weight for accessibility. They have no (un(packing speed penalty and they give you a radial menu to access everything in them with the speed of a hotbar. Items acquired by doing things like harvesting crops or ripping clothes go straight into the backpack. Their downsides are weight reduction and items WILL fall out of them if you turn rapidly, hop fences, fight zombies, sprint crouch, sprint. These are the ideal workmans pack, they are great for carrying and using every tool needed for demo, construction, and they would be the best backpack for rapidly (un)loading/transfering loot short distances, for example taking planks/logs from your car to your base. Taking harvested crops to storage. 

• Handmade basket (can be made from many things, leather jackets, wood, sheets, metal etc.)
• Wildland basket

Then there would be a little bit of overlap. Frames would have a small ability to mount toolbelts and holsters, maybe they could mount first aid kits as well. This sacrifices the frame/packs capacity for accessing one or two more tools and conveniently carrying items. Frames would be able to attach fanny packs/satchels to them on the hip/groin straps, this sacrifices no carry weight but makes the pack a bit more clumsy. This feature I would LOVE because I'd be able to stick my maps, pens/pencils/erasers and medical items into a separate container from my backpack. It would clear up the cluttered list in my pack. 

 

Sackpacks are the current backpacks, there would be a couple new ones added. The new ones do not attach to a frame. Backpacks that do not have hip straps (no frame) can be worn with a fannypack/satchel.

• Assault pack, this would carry as much weight as the hiking packs, but it has a poor weight reduction because it does not attach to a frame and so in game it cannot have hip straps. A long gun can be equipped on this backpack itself freeing up a slot for an axe, bat, metal pipe etc.
• Tube pack, This would carry as much as a military pack but again, it has a pathetic weight reduction compared to backpacks with hip straps (frames)

 

FANNY PACKS/HIP PACKS/LEG BAGS - these have the best weight reductions due to all their weight being supported on your legs, but they cannot carry bulky items. 

• Leg bag - Has a holster slot and can carry enough weight for your maps, meds, etc. Has a high enough weight reduction to almost be considered free carry weight, it has less because it can carry a handgun. Cannot carry single items that weigh more than 1.0
• Field Satchel - This is purely for carrying weight, it can carry a lot of it, but it cannot carry items that weigh more than 1.5. It can equip a couple small tools. 

 

MISC

• Unused slots in your toolbelt will automatically be taken up by any items equipped on your back, they will give a full weight reduction as if you had that item equipped as long as they are empty. Lets say I have a free slot in my toolbelt and I have a JS2000, I can realistically stick the stock of the JS into the tool belt pouch and it will reduce the weight of the gun felt on my shoulder. Long guns are too heavy btw. JS should weigh less than 3.5. Equipping an item in any remaining belt slots removes this benefit. 

This topic is not finished/optimized to not be a tl;dr.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Badgzerz

[Kauffy]

I was literally just going to write something about this, so I'll instead add it as a comment here.

 

Overall, my own goals would be to expand the character's ability to carry things, especially specific item types, in convenient locations, AND, to make it possible for the character to very quickly drop their pack(s) in an emergency.

 

Badgzerz (I had the hardest time typing your name-- weird). There are already some mods that give you an ALICE pack, which can be expanded with one or two pockets and converted to a military ALICE pack, also with adding pockets, as well as having fanny packs that you can wear front AND back (at the same time). The whole system you describe is awesome, but might be a bit too complex. Maybe not.

 

What I'm thinking is:

Add some locations for wearable containers, and vary the container types for those locations. Some of these things may exist and I haven't found them, or they're in mods.

Hips-- this would be the location for holsters, but you could also wear a side bag in that location-- quick access to stuff. You can wear two single holsters on opposite hips, but a double-holster weighs less.

Torso Front-- the ability to add any bag/pack to the FRONT of your body (i.e. wear it backwards)-- much greater speed to access items, added layer of armor protection, but huge penalty to movement-- can't climb tall fences, period, and combat with melee weapons affected a bit. Also, various types of chest bags, and bandoliers.

Dual long weapons on the back-- ability to carry two long weapons on the back.

"Ribs"-- the ability to sling things like messenger bags, or some duffel bags, over the shoulders on each side. These are obviously quicker access, but affect movement significantly.

Belt changes-- find belts with more inherent slots (tool belt, tool belt with suspender harness, etc.), AND the ability to find things like holsters, scabbards, sheaths, or pouches that can be attached to it to add slots for specific item types. The scabbard also allows a second (or third, if two on the back) long weapon at the ready.

Attaching stuff-- in addition to everything else, having the ability to attach small containers to your pack(s). For example, a jug of water, a bundle of sticks, a sack of fruit. This idea was partly inspired by The Long Dark-- it's not an overt feature, but as your character is carrying more and more stuff, and depending upon the kind of stuff, the character makes more noise when walking-- you hear bundles of sticks rattling, items clanking together, etc.

 

Very obviously, this could lead to an incredibly laden character, but the intention would be, in such case, that the character is only intending to go a short distance if they're carrying a million bags, and they're going to make additional noise whether sneaking or not.

 

New mechanic -- hot key to drop packs (front and back of torso) instantly. This would be a quick release to drop the packs you're carrying, so you can sprint out of danger-- all other worn stuff is unaffected.

 

New mechanic -- movement encumbrance when overladen. In addition to walking slower, the character has a much harder time when sneaking, and goes from sneak to normal much slower.

New mechanic -- container-inside-container weight bonus. A container inside another container has no weight itself, and gets a tiny percentage of its equipped weight bonus. My thought is just that this helps to account for organization.

 

New mechanic -- sitting (on the ground or in a car), drops the calculated carry weight for the character's entire load, so they would lose the overloaded Moodle™ and its associated effects.

 

New mechanic -- this kind of exists already, or may be part of the mod that gives the ALICE packs, but my fully-loaded ALICE pack was too heavy for my inventory, so I couldn't actually pick it up once I'd dropped it. I had to empty it a bit, then equip it, then refill it. There was no indication that this is what was happening (currently), but once I realized what was going on, I thought it was a great (even if unintended) touch.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[Fuzzy Wolfy]

I do honestly think one of Zomboid's most underrated yet wholly appreciated aspects is that of item variety, especially in the new IWBUMS 41 build. Already, we're seeing clothing, backpacks, weapons, armor, etc. all have an impact on not only how the world looks, but how it feels, too. So, that all said, I think having a more in-depth container system might pair up beautifully with Zomboid's new Health and Fitness systems.

 

I think, as it is, Zomboid is already set up to have multiple container types that could all serve unique purposes, rather than the current (old) Zomboid's simplistic "Never use anything other than a Big Hiking Bag" strategy where the biggest bag always wins. Having, as you mentioned, tool-bets or more combat-oriented webbing, vests that prioritize carrying capacity over protection, or backpacks that go above-and-beyond in carrying capacity and weight reduction at the cost of movement and interaction speed would be really fun. I think it'd also highlight peoples' playstyles a whole lot, too, considering how vastly different everyone's approach to the apocalypse can be—builders, armorers, fighters, even nomads could all find and develop their niche.

 

Already, we're seeing hotbar and clothing specialties where you can't fit or strap certain things to specific containers, so I honestly think this is a really reasonable and straight-forward addition that could be made for the game.

[Badgzerz]

On 1/23/2021 at 4:30 PM, Kauffy said:

There are already some mods that give you an ALICE pack, which can be expanded with one or two pockets and converted to a military ALICE pack, also with adding pockets, as well as having fanny packs that you can wear front AND back (at the same time). The whole system you describe is awesome, but might be a bit too complex. Maybe not.

That mod is nothing more than a restricted cheat mode from the description you've given. I don't want to give people more carryweight. I want to give them the ability to specialize their way of carrying weight at the expense of versatility. Maybe they could cheat the system for a couple extra kg of carryweight with a leveled tailoring skill. 

 

My most important part of this thread was the part about having 3 different types of backpacks;

• Sackpacks - Stuff your stuff into a zippered bag like we have now. General purpose backpack.
• Rackpacks - Tie those bulky large items to a bare alicepack/hiking pack frame to carry the most amount of gear possible in a secure way by sacrificing your ability to (un)pack your backpack in a timely manner. Ideal for logging and hauling lots of bulky items. 
• Basketpacks - The most convenient backpack, it has no (un)packing speed penalty, looted items automatically go into it and items into it can be hotkeyed. But your loot will fall out of it very easily and it has a comparatively poor weight reduction, plus it makes your character louder. Ideal for farming, foraging, looting, base management.

This would make looting and carrying gear more interesting and it would add replayability by having 3x as many ways to carry gear.