Magic Mark

Any chance the fixes the bug fixes for MP can make it to the vehicle build? I have a group of people prepared to make a test road trip around the map with the new vehicles, I'll report my results regarding seats and seat changes as more stuff has been done.

New issue after recent update. Multiplayer server. State of doors is not saving, coming back to all of the base doors wide open sometimes after returning to the area. Also, new lighting issues, where the switch will say "off", but the lights will come back on, sometimes within seconds. The spawnregions file continuously gets reverted back to the stock map spawns, not the custom cabin spawns I have created. I've tried editing the file directly and using the setting changer under hosting servers. This is server does not use Steam MP.

Quick question, but what build of IWBUMS does this incorporate? Wondering what won't work anymore before I switch back.

Hello, all. Before I'd begin, I'd like to state my facts and sources as to clear up some assumptions, as I'll be away from the forum and unable to defend for some time. In the 1990s, the mean age for vehicles in operation in the U.S. was six and a half years. This number steadily grows throughout the years. In 1969, this figure was about five years, and in 2007 the number was nearly ten years. http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_26.html (retrieved in 2011) I understand the game takes place in 1992, or somewhere close to that. Comparing the current vehicles shown in the game to their real-life counterparts: -The sedan and station wagon are appears loosely based on the concept of a Chevrolet Caprice from the late 70s and early 80s (a very common sedan in the US) with obvious design influences of other vehicles. -The pickup truck has many design elements common with pickup trucks from the 80s and some design elements from the late 70s (round headlights). -The Chevette-looking compact car comes straight out of the late 80s. -The sports car is obviously based on the Corvette C4 (disappointed that the pop-up headlights (which are clearly visible on the hood) don't function and the headlights are where the turn signals are apparently, could be a developer oversight) -The van has a lot in common with vans from the late 80s. An awesome selection of period-possible vehicles, however given the mean vehicle age of 6.5 years, we would be talking about cars from 1986 and newer being the most prominent numbers-wise and that most of the common vehicle (counterparts) in the game would actually be roughly 10 years old (the sedan, mainly) or close to it, I think there is a need for a newer model of vehicle to make an appearance in the game for the sake of being accurate to the 90s. A few suggestions for vehicles these could be based off of, based on cars that sold well in their time. Not an "I want" list, but these would be common and great choices given the new posh areas and potential for a metropolis later: Late-80s SUV (Pictured: 1989 Chevy Suburban) Late 80s Comfy Sedan (Pictured: 1988 Cadillac Sedan Deville) Late 80s/Early 90s Cheap Sedan (1988-1990 Chevrolet Lumina (Coming to a church parking lot, everywhere!)) This is not a "I want these vehicles in" thread, rather a statement that you would actually be seeing newer vehicles in 1990 over some of the most common ones seen ingame. Not complaining about the current list - those cars should stay, they totally have a place, and would be seen quite a lot in the 90s. Merely suggesting for cars to add that could be make it feel more authentic. If this was an "I want" list, a Lumina would be nowhere near that list.

I think his point was more that the majority of vehicles were out of gas, unless you were saying that would apply to the vehicle spawns we see ingame, which I believe would be very unrealistic with all things considered. My case for this: It would actually be quite easy to find and siphon gas outside of the pumps in a zombie apocalypse due to how little vehicles would actually fall to the "endless drive to nowhere" scenario. Traffic jams are inevitable and are cause for people to abandon their vehicle on the road. Even counting tanks already low, giving difference between diesel and gasoline, you could still easily scrounge a year's worth of gas for multiple vehicles from clogged up traffic, based on the fact that the majority of vehicles would have had enough gas and then some to reach the desired destination before being caught in the jam (and as for people leaving their vehicles running, it would be more feasible for the car to stall out from idling before actually running out of gas). It's brought up a lot in a few apocalypse survival guides and forums that siphoning gas will be profitable for quite a long time especially if there are high-traffic zones near your chosen home. Counting the cars that were simply left where they were before the apocalypse - delivery trucks, company cars, school buses remain in their depots as employees run to their personal vehicles, far more common than one would think without reading into it as people are more than likely to carpool in a chaotic situation even if they have their own vehicle due to the common human instinct of safety in numbers. As more people lose their lives to the zombie plague, that's another vehicle going unused, and even if they didn't own a vehicle to begin with that's one less person to drive the gas of another vehicle. There will be a point early on in the apocalypse where the amount of vehicles out there, with gas, will outnumber the survivors and it will likely come during the initial chaos. Census data concludes that even prior to 1990 the majority of American households owned two or more vehicles. Given a general assumed amount of "unfortunate situations" and that most of these vehicles had a relevant amount of gas before their owner's "unfortunate situation", there must be a mathematically guaranteed pool of unclaimed cars that one would assume to have gas in their tank which would continue to grow as the old owners died. Isolated vehicles on the roadside would have a good chance of being out of gas, yeah. No argument there. However cars in parking lots, traffic jams, even parked outside the home - would realistically keep the average amount an american keeps in their daily-driver at any given point. Random fun fact, It's actually better for the case of cars having gas as the vehicles showcased in the game come from a time before anti-siphoning measures. Not super relevant but I thought I'd share that too. I apologize for the lengthy post, I just have this information off-hand as I supported this argument on a different forum relatively recently. ~~ Anyway, I agree with the previous post and the initial complaint, from a gameplay AND realism point of view it would make much more sense for most cars in the current spawns to keep a usable amount of gas, even ones in "accidents" if that comes into play later. Haven't had time to try it out myself but if that many cars are out of gas with generous sandbox settings it could also be a bug or overriding value kicking in too. Let RNG take gas away from isolated abandoned vehicles. Traffic jams and parking lots should be a hot spot for gas siphoning in any apocalypse scenario, the blanket "out of gas" chance should be saved for isolated and abandoned vehicles.

I reported it in my "Kim Jong Quibble" post. It's the same with every side by side building. My example came from the country club breakroom building. Difference is that the screenshots were taken in the vehicle build, but the problem is the same.

I understand your point, but you cannot learn how to fix a car solely from a textbook and do it right. There's a lot of knowledge you cannot gain from pure research and must be gained through skill within the craft, same as cooking, medicine, welding. There's still a lot of skill with the science behind repairing and building a car. You can read a recipe to learn how to cook something, but doing it well so it becomes true feel-good food requires skill. You can learn how to weld through a textbook, but to actually get it to the point where it has a consistent fusion and doesn't look like somebody poured molten metal along the crease requires skill. Having the skill to fix bodywork with minimal gaps between panels, install new parts without affecting another - that requires skill, and it's not something you're going to just figure out by reading about it. You can repair new and old cars alike if you have enough know-how behind how cars work and how an engine is built, and that now-how needs skill. Believe it or not, most cars on the road today has issues the owner is confident does not exist (or simply does not know), and a lot of problems within vehicles are caused by owners that think they know what they are doing but really don't. It's an issue of both knowledge and skill, the same as it is with cooking and a plethora of other skills that are in the game. And as long as any playstyle involves using a vehicle for transportation, I can imagine the mechanic skill will be important, especially if you are maintaining a fleet for multiple players. As @NebNebber stated you'd be more likely to find a mechanic that has both welding and electrician skill than an electrician/welder with mechanical skills. It would be realistic for the mechanic profession to have a point in electricity/metalworking on top of the 2/3 in mechanic skill.

As a guy who has worked in an auto shop and also lives with people of all three skills, no, a mechanic skill would take priority over all of them for having much more to do in the real world than both combined. Mechanical skills as a whole involve the other two to some degree but do not by any means blanket-cover even half of the things it takes to fix a car. You absolutely need electricians and metalworkers if you are building a structure. However, once the job is done, it's off to find another job, and jobs aren't always plentiful. Cars always need to be worked on. Tires need to be filled, rotated, replaced. Oil changes need to be made regularly. Car fluids for various important systems... oil, transmission, even the wiper fluid and others is important to keep an eye on, as unfortunately vehicles don't self-regulate and maintain them themselves. Transportation is important. Welding is useful, and is also used in automotive applications... but not regularly, as hammering dents out and fabrication isn't exactly a welding skill as it takes vehicle-based knowledge. The electrician skill is also connected, but not as much in any place where either of them could remotely cover what it takes to fix a car. Let's say a headlight goes out and you have no idea what's wrong. Do you call a welder? Do you call an electrician? Or do you call a mechanic? An electrician might be able to say "hey, that' could be a broken filament"... but how does the electrician get to the bulb to know that? A mechanic would know how to take out the headlight and remove it, as it isn't as easy as reaching your hand inside the engine compartment and unscrewing it like you would with a conventional lightbulb. It could be deduced by looking at the headlight from both sides and having the know-how to piece together what needs to be done to remove the headlight, but wouldn't be a quick deduction to somebody who has never done it before, and is worried about damaging other components in the process. That's actually the most generous example I can think of because completing an oil change, replacing and rotating tires, and replacing mostly any part in a car could not be done solely on both forms of knowledge. Would a metalworker or electrician know how to complete an oil change, rotate tires, tune the timing, etc.? I certainly didn't learn any of those in woodshop, welding class, or the electricity unit in science, but I did in an auto shop. Rebuilding an engine is a lot more complicated than some would think. That would be the why-not for having it solely be a metal-electro combination. My point is, it wouldn't fit in a game that claims to be realistic since neither of the skills cover any of the knowledge needed to complete most basic repairs to a vehicle. There is ways to flesh those two out that don't involve cutting a skill that is plenty common to see and also totally relevant to maintaining a vehicle.

Switched back over to IWBUMS, can confirm that the bug where the spawnregions file for MP is overwritten by a stock one if the stock town spawns are removed (and the custom spawns do not work). If something is wrong with the file and it's something on my end, let me know. This is a steam free multiplayer server servertest_spawnregions.lua

^Engines that are high quality and tuned well shouldn't stall out when you are driving. In real life, that is indication of a few possible major issues, and would be cause to drive to the shop immediately. Also, the junkyard. Realistically the cars here would be organized into rows, not piled on top of each other. It would also cut back on the massive lag the area can produce since the cars tend to "bounce" when they are falling/dealing with the awkward positioning. Other than that, really cool to see the different variants. Just wish I had the server sandbox settings in multiplayer so I could scale down how many cars spawn, since it seems like 100% of them are.

Had an issue where somebody chose Muldraugh to spawn in the server and spawned by the junkyard in Riverside.

I understand this is a modeling issue, just pointing out that the 2 square outlines on the hood of the car based on the corvette are meant to be the headlights, not where the turn signals are supposed to be

Playing on multiplayer, not sure if it's me doing something wrong but every time I launch the server (it is a nosteam server) it resets the spawn regions file.

Riverside doesn't have the spawns made yet.

Booted up my old steam-free hamachi server. Found some issues, these could be on my end since it hasn't launched in years, but I cleared the servertest and player files and the db. Hope this can help. It seems like the servervars file is missing a few of the sandbox settings. Recieved 2 errors upon logging out. I also seem to have a bug where if I press "join server" and nothing is selected, the game won't let me reselect anything and an error pops up. As a workaround I can still join the server by double-clicking on it in the server list. There's also an issue where starting the server resets my spawnregions file back to an unedited one (where west point and muldraugh are unavailable) and removes my custom spawns from the list. console.txt server-console.txt

(Please ignore, did not mean to double post) server-console.txt

It's also worth noting that the room loot definitions for the kitchen are incorrect, it does not spawn food and spawns candles.

I understand, thank you for the acknowledgement and letting me know that it is on the list. I didn't sign up for this for new stuff early, I'm in here for the long haul. Most stuff I see that can be fixed, I'm trying my best to report. I apologize if it's been said already as there is too many pages of the thread for me to read.

I understand the workaround, but it's an inherent flaw since a player could be avoiding hordes to get to that point only to realize "I cannot actually enter here as there is no door on this side". By then a horde could have caught up, or the previous opening they had would not exist anymore. It's a very specific situation, I know, but not uncommon to any new player who is unaware of the map or keeping stealth. Normally I wouldn't care since I know the map, I'm putting myself in the shoes of somebody who does not. Believe me, I absolutely love this build since a lot more architecture is nice to see in most cases. I'd provide my positive feedback for the map, but it's already been said. I apologize if I come off as a "downer danny", believe me I'm only trying to point out stuff that I believe could fix inherent problems that are either new or can be fixed.

This next post is grievances with the map. The spot in particular is the posh houses near the country club.

This post will contain relatively major issues with the new "see more" update, hope this helps. It is important to note that these were taken in the vehicle build, but it is merged with the IWBUMS build and contains some rather glaring issues that should be addressed regarding content in this build. Also unknown if this issue exists on this build but railings and fences have been totally mislayered, created a new world and in a new area to test, verified files as well. This is with every railing all over the map.

Incorrect car spawn orientation at the giga Mart in West Point More examples of railing/fence layering weirdness found in this build, taken at West Point confirming that this is not central to the new area (unsure if Vehicle build or the test build in general, but I am on the vehicle build)

Tested out the new spawns, quick suggestion here to add more spawns out at country homes as I haven't found a single one outside of the rare parking lot. Also, the whole porch mislayered railings and stuff I've pictured applies to the whole map, not just new areas. I took screenshots of most places I found it in a new game, but I realized it's a universal issue with a new map thing. I also verified my files before I started a new game to make sure everything was fresh. Would be worth looking into at @RobertJohnson since this is a vehicles build issue apparently

Okay, it being The Pride Of The Mighty Ohio referring to the river makes a lot more sense to me now. However I could still see how this would be confusing to somebody who gets the wrong idea.

I started a new game after the IWBUMS 38.10 build came out and I think something in that update mislayered everything for the buildings. Anyone else looking at stuff like this everywhere? Also, I find myself unable to name recipes in this build.