vanorfeadiel

The system needs to provide sufficient feedback so the players know to adapt before dying. It will be especially harder to some players that had playstyle that was working pre-Nutrition, that might not work post nutrition. It needs to work with the following playstyle (i.e. not that the playstyle still works but enough warning and sign to tell the players to adapt before they die) Speed Monkey: Fitness Trainer, Athletic, Runner, Adrenaline Junies + All Panic Traits (a combination of these). Can create characters that could run pretty much all the time in Pre-Nutrition. Would likely die quickly after Nutrition (didn't have a chance to test much this one). Minimal Eater: Preserving foor to the Max. LightEater, only eat 1/4 of food when peckish or hungry to minize food usage. Woodland survivor: Using foraging, trapping and farming only. The above playstyke worked before but at least the Speed Monkey is up for a rude awakening, which is OK, but there need to be sufficient warning so that the player doesn't just end up quickly starving and dying. The Minimal Eater was problemtic when the nutrition information wasn't carried over properly but is likely OK now. Woodland survivor: Getting better with inclusion of calories to items that were missing some. Mushrooms still need to be increased (4 is not enough). When you get feedback on stats it would probably be good if people provided you a short explanation of the playstyle they did. Specifically: 1-What was the type of activities they were doing (you have some of that information from the stats) 2-At what point where they eating (By nutrition level, hunger moodlet, specific time of day, or has soon has they had food and could). 3-How much food where they eating when they where eating. Finally you also need to account for extreme circumstances, even if not wise gameplay wise of the player that would be eating all the time, all the food as soon as he as some to see what the result of that would be.

I think they are both valuable. Players can play by using calories only, or hunger only, or both and report on how they played. The key point is that they tell you how they are behaving to make the stats more useful. Of course you could always release one build without that information to see how it feels.

Not sure of the problem with calories I only see two difference: The only difference I can see in the Eat Function in IsoGameCharacter.Class is that the call to the food.getHungChange Uses hungChange in Food.Class which is defined as a protected float hungChange = 0.0F.. While the call to food.getCalories() in Food.Class uses Calories which is defined as a private float calories = 0.0F; Finally, calories is a variable defined as a private float at least in the Food.Class and the Nutrition.Class not sure if the conflict is coming from there. Good luck, I need to go get some sleep...

Lipids, Protein and Carbs don't change at all when eating a portion. That part is easy to start fixing: In the Eat function in IsoGameCharacter.Class change food.setCalories(food.getCarbohydrates() - food.getCarbohydrates() * percentage); food.setCalories(food.getProteins() - food.getProteins() * percentage); food.setCalories(food.getCarbohydrates() - food.getCarbohydrates() * percentage); to: food.setCarbohydrates(food.getCarbohydrates() - food.getCarbohydrates() * percentage); food.setProteins(food.getProteins() - food.getProteins() * percentage); food.setLipids(food.getLipids() - food.getLipids() * percentage); Still investigating the Calories problem.

So I discovered a Bug. When you eat 1/4 food. The 1st quarters of calories are OK but then the remaining value is skewed. Example Peanut Butter 1/4 gets=665 calories as expected, but then the remaining calories are only 96. It is not a display bug, eating it all only gives 96 calories. It is a calculation error. The Bug is also present when eating 1/2.

Sandbox, no zombies, running 10 minutes every hour when not reading/resting/sleeping. Eating only when hungry, trying to maximize food (how people are likely to play if they don't see nutritional information). No traits, Weight: 79.58

Not Sure what the FoodType = field is going to be used for but it is only in the Food Items in the NewItems file and not in the Items file. MushroomGeneric3 and 5 in NewItems: Should EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:3;Stew:4;Pie:4;Soup:4;Sandwich:4;Salad:4;Roasted Vegetables:4;Rice 4;Pasta 4, Be EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:4;Stew:4;Pie:4;Soup:4;Sandwich:4;Salad:4;Roasted Vegetables:4;Rice 4;Pasta 4, ??? All other mushrooms have the same values across the board: EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:3;Stew:3;Pie:3;Soup:3;Sandwich:3;Salad:3;Roasted Vegetables:3;Rice 3;Pasta 3,

Varenvel discussion like the above should be in the Build 34 in general discussion. If a mod could move it there and PM Varenvel and then delete my post. Thanks.

Considering right now that both CakePrep and PiePrep have the exact same calories and macronutrient value they should both reduce Hunger by either -20 or -30 (I would suggest -30).

I would suggest that the calories burn decrease based on current character weight like so (using weight of 80 has the base weight, which is the default weight for starting character with no traits): From To I am focusing on Calories right now, not macronutrient. One of the problems of the code right now is that macronutrients are being reduced at a constant rate while calories are being reduced at a varying rate based on activities. Also, you should make a decision if you want to include Hearty Appetite and Light Eater Trait. If you do the 1.5 and .75 multiplier should be added in calculating the Calories in Nutrition. If not because you don't want it to affect your baseline stats it should either be removed from the available Traits or they should both be set to 1.0F in the Hunger calculation in IsoGameCharacter.

From RobertJohnson: Update 2! Added icons for the new traits (not definitive icons!) Added new traits descriptions You now can't eat if you're well fed Fixed weight-related trait sometimes not being updated in character info screen Changed single berry in a bunch of berries Added pasta & rice (they are evolved recipes, lot of food can be added in them, you need a water pot to prepare them) Added several foods to evolved recipes (canned foods can now be added to recipes, etc...) Fixed cutting fish filet not adding nutritional values Fixed unfit/out of shape being good traits Well fed moodle will stay bit longer Fixed some evolved recipes incorrect numbers Reduced speed of gaining/losing weight Calories to gain weight is now based on your weight (the more you have weight, the more calories is needed to gain weight) You know start at 800 calories (previously 500) Fixed Emaciated trait having wrong value Fixed nutrition values in food tooltip being displayed in green Fixed nutrition value of base item (cake preparation, pie dough..) not being added in evolved recipe Balanced some nutrition values

Pumpkin pie should not use the same value has pie (which was described has a meat pie). The caloric values could be the same but the macronutrient should not. If you want to keep it simple you could simply flip the Protein and the Carbs in the Pumpkin Pie. PotOfSoup has hard calories instead of being calculated from the ingredient not sure if this is a placeholder or not. Will try different soups and see if they all give 125 calories.

Thanks for sharing ulfstein would be cool to recreate things like that in the game (not so to experience in real life). I hope you are doing better nowadays. Few other missing items with calories in game and suggested values (simply re-using current in-game values for bread): Question on Cheese Sandwich and Grilled Cheese (they are missing calories): Are we still going with the full bread and full cheese being consumed for the monster CheeseSandwhich recipes? Are we also still going for the Cheese Sandwich and the full 3200 calories of butter (1 pound) being consumed for the Epic Meal Time worthy Butter Soaked Grilled Cheese Sandwich of over 3845 calories with current values? I will combine those values based on the current crafting recipes in my file, but it should probably be reviewed. Otherwise, just make 10 Grilled Cheese and you can survive the apocalypse.

If it was a bunch of worms yes, just like berries are considered a bunch. Will see where RJ want's to take it. The problem with worms is that you can get them both from Digging and Foraging (at least I think you can still get them from Digging) which requires no skills (Digging part). Plus worms is bait for fishing and for stick traps (to catch birds). That's why worms were considering overpowered for survival. Now if they are only useful for fishing and trapping it might actually balanced things more. Especially considering I'm advocating calories increase from other sources of food. Based on that I would argue that not worms should not give the same hunger reduction as berries unless you are eating the same quantities (i.e 1 bunch of berries and 10 worms). Potentially combining worms into a bunch of worms could be a new recipe for worms enthusiast. As far as not getting happiness penalty from insect I think there should be new traits: Entomophagy Enthusiast (no penalty while eating bugs) 2 Points Entomophobia (can't eat bugs) -2 Points Other potential traits:

To make some of the lowest calories item still worth to actually eat, although barely so, it might be worth considering reducing the duration of the eating animation by half.

Yep, worm suggested stats: From: item Worm { HungerChange = -5, Weight = 0.1, Type = Food, DisplayName = Worm, Icon = Worm, UnhappyChange = 20, FishingLure = true, Carbohydrates = 0, Proteins = 5.55, Lipids = 0, Calories = 10, } To: item Worm { HungerChange = 0, Weight = 0.01, Type = Food, DisplayName = Worm, Icon = Worm, UnhappyChange = 20, FishingLure = true, Carbohydrates = 0, Proteins = 0.5, Lipids = 0.1, Calories = 3, } This would make worm viable only to fish (note the dramatic reduction in weight which is more realistic and also better aligned with the new limited role of earthworm). If worms could be combined together you could always eat a bunch of worms to get a worthwhile amount of food. Of course, it would almost make you instantly depressed or worse to eat a mouthful of live squirming worms. What's your guys opinion on this? Should worm become mostly bait for fish and bait for stick traps (again assuming that fish and fish filet are fixed and provide decent caloric value).

Thanks Spatz I will use that value and see how much nutrition it will give. That will likely solve the worm being overpowered for food and becoming only a source of bait for fishing and stick traps.

The final piece of the puzzle: earthworm. Protein: 62.2% Fat: 17.7% Size use 20 cm (8 inch). Still figuring out mass. Found weight here: http://www.biologyjunction.com/earthworm%20facts.htm So going with 8g for the worm. This should align well with -5 Hunger from the Worm compared to other insects (especially considering the higher water ratio). If anyone has information on water ratio it would be appreciated. If I can't find it, I will use 75% since I assume the water content of an earthworm is likely higher than an insect.

Found the termite water content 54%. I will use that for other insect. Might not be exact but probably better than using beef.

I'm trying to find the moisture percentage in insects to work it back to nutritional values of live insects. I am unable to find it I will use 70% moisture which is the average of meat. Here is the macronutrient weight ratio in the insect we have in game based on Scholarly article on the topic: Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201200735/abstract The percentages are for Dry Matter and in weight not in Calorie percentage (fat being more caloric). That is why I am interested in moisture percentage to convert it back to a live insect. Crickets: Protein: 66.56% Fat: 22.08% Carbs (including Fibers): 24.68% Weight I am using for the average crickets are 6g (guesstimate only) Cockroach: Protein: 57.3% Fat: 29.9% Carbs (including Fibers): 9.84% Average Cockroach Adult Weight is 15g (13g really but using 15g) (this one is precise) Grasshopper: Protein: 62.73% Fat: 2.49% Carbs (including Fibers): 33.01% I am using an average weight of 9 g for grasshopper (this was to respect the relative HungerChange of -6, -7 and -9 of the different Insects in game, I couldn't find scientific value so far). I will be assuming that 1 insect is actually a bunch of insects. Will post recommended values later this afternoon...

More missing items (always going 0.1 PZ = 100g for food): Rosehips: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/ethnic-foods/10470/2 Carbohydrates = 38, Proteins = 2, Lipids = 0, Calories = 162,Would boost HungerChange from -2 to -10 GrapeLeaveshttp://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/3038/2 Carbohydrates = 17, Proteins = 6, Lipids = 2, Calories = 93,Would boost HungerChange from -2 to -6 Violet (assuming you don't want it to be a total waste of time I'm not using a single flower - used sesbania for caloric value, 100g)http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2619/2 Carbohydrates = 7, Proteins = 1, Lipids = 0, Calories = 27,HungerChange could stay at -1 or go up to -2

Yep, I focus on getting mine from american website as well. I Used Amazon for packaged product and nutrition data for raw product or popular American fast food chain for Spiffo type food (burgers, fries, etc). Again your watermelon (1 watermelon) and cherry (1) caloric value are accurate when not taking weight into account. I am 80% with changing my Carbohydrates, Proteins, Lipids, Calories, Hunger game files value on my second copy of build 34. Got SmallAnimalMeat and SmallBirdMeat, working on more exotic foraging food items (Farming, Items don working through Newitems). I will send them your way and explain the change for each item. I will play sandbox, no zombies and do the exact same thing with the current system and my new suggested one. I will have 4 test case. 1-Nomad Survivor, running 33% of the time (20 minutes every hours) + 100% of the time while travelling between city. Current Nutriotion System. 2-Nomad Survivor, running 33% of the time (20 minutes every hours) + 100% of the time while travelling between city. My Modified Value. 3-Woodland (Foraging, Fishing, Farming, Trapping), Running 10% while in town and not running at camp. Current Nutrition System. 4-Woodland (Foraging, Fishing, Farming, Trapping), Running 10% while in town and not running at camp. My modified value. Back to the reseach.

There are a few new food items (honey, oatmeal, juice box) (or at leat I had not seen them before in Vanilla).

Items with missing calories: Remoulade (depends on size going with 400g based on the fact that bottle is 0.5 full and 0.1 empty which would be 2400, 240 lipis, 53.3 carbs). Would increase BoredomChange to at least 30 and UnhappyChange to at least 30 (like ketchup). Chardonnay (Wine) (481 calories, weight should go up to 1 (bottle 0.3 + liquid 0.7), [all calories are from alcohol] Red Wine (Wine 2) (510 calories, weight should go up to 1 (bottle 0.3 + liquid 0.7), [all calories are from alcohol] Whiskey (1543 calories, weight should go down to 1 (bottle 0.3 + liquid 0.7) or WiskeyEmpty should go up. [all calories are from alcohol] Almost done modifying the list of suggested calories from the farming.txt, items.txt and newitems.txt files in my copy of the game.

Activities currently increase caloric uses, quite significantly, which is great. And for lean body mass, I agree with you 100%. Also has your lean body mass increase or decrease your caloric requirement should also increase and decrease. I will give RJ code suggestion and will explain the suggested change here once it's ready. Right now I am focusing on suggesting new caloric, macronutrient and the weight value for food.