A huge bunch of suggestion to changing how guns work

[RioYR]

Vanilla guns have always been treated as a bit of a joke in the PZ community, I would argue realistically that guns would be best weapon in the 'zombie apocalypse' although that does heavily depend on towards the type of zombie disease and the fact that you can only make a game so realistic to the point where it's not fun. There are also many things that we do with guns today that I would like to point out on this, however they are vastly different or didn't even exist in 1993.

 

Before I make this suggestion I'd like to say that these are purely things that I can point out from a realistic/lore point of view I have no idea on how balancing these ingame from a developer point of view will run so please do feel free build on any suggestions I say.

 

Big changes:

 

Hearing protection:

 

Today whenever you handle a gun you will usually have the correct PPE (Eye protection and Ear protection) For now I will focus on the hearing protection. 

 

Around 30 years ago, ear protection was widely used on ranges as shooting any gun in a practical cartridge isn't good on your ears, the main threat isn't being deaf. It's tinnitus. Tinnitus is very common around old veterans as most of them wouldn't wear it during combat in order to communicate with eachother, it is very easy to lose hearing from a firing a gun without the correct protection. I would also like to point out that hearing loss from guns is both short term and long term, firing a couple .308 on a regular basis can ruin your hearing the same way emptying an entire magazine of .44 magnum in a few seconds can. Tinnitus is also not the same as being deaf.

 

Hearing protection ingame:

 

-Ear plugs: These are quick and easy way of covering your ears, you can find them in boxes of 100 and are normally disposable (howeveryou can find reusable ones that have to be cleaned). Wearing these would make the player lose the 'Keen hearing' trait which would cause them have to watch their back and listen for zombies instead of relying on seeing them behind their character. These would also fall out easily if you tried running over a fence and tripped over. Wearing them over a long time (Hours) would cause discomfort or ear infections.

 

-Normal ear protection: These aren't so much different from ear plugs except that they don't fall off you when you trip over a fence or melle fighting. Wearing them over a long time (Days) would cause discomfort or ear infections.

 

-Electronic ear protection: Electronic ear protection basically work like noise cancelling headphones except they have a microphone that plays low dB sounds but blocks out high dB sounds. Today's electronic ear protection is very good quality, I'd argue that it even amplifies sound so that you can hear even more than your normal ears and have amazing long battery life (Up to 600 hours). However the year is 1993 and it isn't as advanced as today. Wearing these would let you keep the keen hearing trait. They require batteries and would have a battery life for a day before the batteries need replacing. You would also have to repair these with the electronic skill if they are damaged in fighting. They don't fall off when you trip over a fence or melle fighting. Wearing them over a long time (Days) would cause discomfort or ear infections.

 

-It would also be helpful (but not necessary) to point this out to new players as a tip that Spiffo would give you when entering the game's tutorial.

 

Hearing loss:

 

-If the character has the 'Deaf' Trait then none of this applies to them except minor pain.

 

-When firing a cartridges like 9x19mm, 45 ACP, .38 SPL and .223, there would be a slight ringing sound combined with the loss of keen hearing however you would still be able to slightly hear things around you. If you continued to fire these repeatedly all sound would be muffled, slight rining and loss of keen hearing and minor pain.

 

-Firing cartridges like .44 Magnum, .308 and 12G would instantly make the sound of muffled (you wouldn't even hear the first shot) and would cause ringing and loss of keen hearing and -minor pain.

 

-Over time if the character keeps doing this (maybe over a couple weeks) they will gain the trait 'Tinnitus' in the character info and lose keen hearing. There should be multiple hints in the health menu showing 'Ringing ears, ear pain'. When right clicking them it should prompt for you to put on ear protection.

 

All of these can be altered in the sandbox/server options.

 

 

Shot placement:

 

Selecting where you want to shoot:

 

Instead of the entire target being highlighted when aiming a gun, specific parts of the body can be highlighted with the press of a button.

 

The head:

 

-A skilled shooter on a flat range can easily make a hole in the face of a target, the problem is that it's the face of the target and not the brain. Moving targets are a lot harder to get on the head bit still possible. All of this depends on the aiming skill of the character. Also has a chance to graze the the head.

 

Centre mass:

 

-Also known as the torso this would be the easist target to hit and is where most people learned to shoot over the centries, shooting there when the highlight isn't fully green can result in the player being shot in the arm. Against players it's very important as they can be a bigger threat than zombies. I don't know myself if zombies can be killed without destroying the head ingame (I've tried hitting a zombies legs on the group for a few seconds and it shrugged it off like it was nothing) however I will focus on this in my next suggestion. All of this depends on the aiming skill of the character. Also has a chance to graze the the torso.

 

Legs:

 

-Getting shot in the limbs is no joke, a lot of blood flows through them and will start to spurt out heavily (although it shouldn't happen all the time). Shooting the legs should be harder than hitting head. However if shot in the leg there should have a small chance of you walking like you have a broken/fractured leg. (I would like to mention using a tourniquet would be the solution to this but that would be too realistic and unfun). If you have the trait 'Adrenaline' this doesn't apply. As for zombies, shooting them twice successfully in the legs could turn them into crawlers. Also has a chance to graze the the legs.

 

All of these can be altered in the sandbox/server options.

 

Reaction to gunshot:

 

In this suggestion I'd like to suggest how zombies react to gunshots. IIRC the lore is based around the Romero/WWZ zombies I wouldn't really consider them to be 'infected' zombies as they posses many attributes that defy biology however it is a subjective opinion. Seeing as the game is 'Project Zomboid' I'd like to build upon the 'infected' type of zombie that the player could select in the difficulty or create their own in the sandbox.

 

These zombies are based upon a realistic biological disease like the 28 Days/Weeks later rage virus or the runners the Last of us cordyceps (pls give TLoU crossover). The main aim of this is to make them the terrifying things they are in movies/games; They run like humans, attack like humans but also react to pain like humans. This includes not having to destroy the brain for them to die.

 

Staggering, knockdown, delayed knockdown and bleed out: 

 

Stagger:

 

-Zombies that are shot in the chest by a handgun in the gun's effective range can be slowed down (maybe having an animation showing that it is in pain, staggering or maybe even cowering back a bit) before going back to attacking.

 

-Players wearing armour on the chest will not be effected by handgun rounds but has the chance get 'Internal bleeding' leaving the player in moderate pain for a while until it heals.

 

Knockdown:

 

-When a zombie is shot in the chest by a shotgun or rifle they will either instantly fall until the ground and get back up to attack, or it they will continue to run at the player before tripping over and getting up to continue their attack (this is to mimmick the delayed knockdown of being shot if anyone here has hunted any large game even hitting the right spot, it will run away before dying shortly later). If the zombie is running and is shot in the leg (Very hard to do) it will always instantly trip over and fall.

 

-Players wearing armour on the chest will not be effected by handgun rounds but has the chance get 'Internal bleeding'

 

Bleed out:

 

-When a zombie is shot anywhere  in the limbs they will leave a trail of blood where after hours or days they would eventually fall to the ground and die if they aren't killed by the player. This could be a good way to track the horde as it will leave a blood trail which leads to a horde or a single dead body.

 

-If the zombie is shot enough times (or has a small chance to be shot once). They will trip over and flail their limbs around as they have a catastrohpic bleed, if the player walks over them for a while the zombie on the ground will attack them and stagger them like crawlers can, however if they are not put down then they will eventually bleed and die a few moments later.

 

All of these can be altered in the sandbox/server options.

 

Crawling and prone:

 

Prone shooting accuracy increase:

 

-When going into prone, rifles will increase accuracy and follow up shots are easier to take. If aiming is high enough then this will apply to handguns as well. If the player's fitness is low and they try running into prone posistion they have a chance to trip over. Going into prone makes you're highlight harder to hit however makes you more vulnerable to getting shot in the head if you do get hit.

 

This can be altered in the sandbox/server options.

 

Crawling:

 

-Crawling allows for players to move while using folliage to hide themselves depending on sneaking skill (easier to hide in long grass when erosion hits). Fitness determines how fast you can get up and down, spamming crawling and getting up will cause exhaustion, crawling with a lot of weight causes back pain. You can crawl under cars and dumpsters as well to escape from the horder as well as shoot any zombies that try to crawl under to get you.

 

 

Small changes:

 

Slings and Lanyards:

 

-When a sling is connected to your longgun you will not drop it when fighting or tripping over a fence

 

-When a lanyard is connected if you trip over a fence or drop it in a fight it will stay connected and drag along the floor where you can pick it back up.

 

Gun melle:

 

Bayonets:

 

-When longguns have a bayonet attatched a button press can turn it into a a spear where you can do a bayonet charge or use it as a conventional spear.

 

Gun bashing/pistol whipping:

 

-A press of a button can turn the gun into a club. Instead of shooting the character will hit the zombie on the head with the gun and will can use it to destroy the head if they are standing on top of the zombie.

 

 

Speed reload:

 

-Double tapping 'R' will cause the player to reload much faster but will drop the magazine which retains all the rounds on the ground which can be collected later.

 

Gun cleaning:

 

-Cleaning guns after shooting (not to be confused with cleaning off blood) is important. Although keeping guns clean is largely exagerated especially in military terms. It is good to clean guns with regards to long term wear. Having a dirty gun after shooting doesn't really affect reliability unless the ammo is bad. Cleaning things like Gun patches, oil, ram rods and any type of cloth can be used to clean them.

 

Nitpicks:

These nitpicks are things that I wouldn't prioritise in terms of gameplay but to make them known if the devs wanted to add these small details to the game.

 

-Guns having a manual safety that has to be turned off next to their firemode, this might look like a no brainer. But a person who has never picked up a gun before might not even know a safety exists (Especially as today most pistols don't have manual safeties).

 

-If character is wearing electronic ear protection and is standing over corpses that have flies over them, the flies' wings will override the sound of the game.

 

-When firing guns you can pick up the casings and reload them with the right tools and materials found in gunstores (this is not a skill you can learn easily back in 1993 in the apocalypse) it has to be an occupation or trait. Smokeless powder (Gunpowder) is also very different when reloading and can be catastrohpic if done incorrectly.

 

-Right now all guns are literally fully automatic. Semi automatic guns (Single fire) shouldn't have a reduced fire rate but have one click of the mouse means one pull of the trigger. If the player feels like spam clicking their M14 it will shoot fast but will not expect to hit anything.

 

-Flash suppressors (not sound suppressors) are used in most rifles today however old hunting rifles in 1993 they were not standard. The M16 and M14 have flash suppressors which do not totally remove the flash at night, but stop the shooter from being blinded. A .308 like the MSR788's muzzle flash would blind the player if shot at night.

 

-Guns like all of the pistols, M14 and M16 will have their bolt/slide locked back when they are empty or if the player pulls it back on an empty magazine. It is more easily shown on pistols. Press X releases the slide/bolt forward. Once forward the player call pull the trigger once which cannot be heard again unless it is the M9.

-Semi Automatic guns that have their slide/bolt locked to the rear will not be able to pull the trigger.

 

-If the trigger is pulled on any gun that goes 'click' once it cannot be pulled again unless it is racked manually. This doesn't apply to the revolvers or M9.

 

-Stripper clips for the M16 can be used to quickly load magazines.

 

-Speed loaders can quickly be used to reload revolvers.

 

-.223 can be used in an M16 but 5.56 cannot be used in an MSR700 without it causing dangerous wear to the gun and possibly to the shooter.

 

-Mounting any optical sight has to be zeroed and taking it on and off again has to be rezeroed, this would be harder to impliment and only really affects shooting at 100m. Most people have a different zero to other people, handing someone a rifle used for precision that is zeroed to you might have a different zero for them making them miss their shots.

 

-Laser sights are terrible for leading targets in the open as you wouldn't see where the laser is if you didn't aim fully at the target.

 

-Holding the longgun the current way causes a lot of arm fatigue if held like that for a long time. When pointed downwards with it resting on the body it spreads the weight across the body the sling

Conclusion:

 

I would like to fully address this thread as inspiration to developers to change how guns as well as how zombies could work in future builds, I don't expect every the exact thing I suggested to be implemented but there is always room for innovation.

 

You might not agree with everything I have suggested on this thread but I am free to hear all criticism and any other ideas that could also be suggested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by RioYR

[Papa Juliet Whiskey]

I like the ideas pertaining to your characters senses. Muzzleflash at night is no fun to the shooter(although, I'll admit I've never used a firearm in the dark. 

 

I especially like the bit about hearing loss and other side effects. I've only fired a small handful of different calibur firearms, and it really cought me by surprise when shooting a 410 with birdshot. Tinnitus, baby.

 

Y'all can keep the infected sprinters thought. I'm more of a lazy casual player, and often times find myself under the influence of certain beverages, or smoked herbs, so I often find even fast shamblers to be a little too  annoying to deal with on normal or high populations. But that's just my lazy playstyle. Modular and highly customizable games like zomboid really go out of their way to broaden their user experiences without making the base game too easy.

 

Oh, and vote Spiffo for president.

[RioYR]

1 hour ago, Papa Juliet Whiskey said:

I like the ideas pertaining to your characters senses. Muzzleflash at night is no fun to the shooter(although, I'll admit I've never used a firearm in the dark. 

 

I especially like the bit about hearing loss and other side effects. I've only fired a small handful of different calibur firearms, and it really cought me by surprise when shooting a 410 with birdshot. Tinnitus, baby.

 

Y'all can keep the infected sprinters thought. I'm more of a lazy casual player, and often times find myself under the influence of certain beverages, or smoked herbs, so I often find even fast shamblers to be a little too  annoying to deal with on normal or high populations. But that's just my lazy playstyle. Modular and highly customizable games like zomboid really go out of their way to broaden their user experiences without making the base game too easy.

 

Oh, and vote Spiffo for president.

Of course, everybody has different playstyles. The best thing about PZ is how customisable the gameplay is, the reactions to gunshots should always be editable but the 'Proper zombies' will always be the default but next to it there could be 'Infected' which would include the new zombies.

 

And yeah, The flash from firing guns in the dark without a suppressor or flash suppressor is terrible it's even worse if there is a muzzle break or a it has a shorter barrel.