Falke

NPC.

Thanks so much. This is like the best news ever for this game! Hordes inc.

@Impetiso: And i dont want to collect thousands of bullets i will never use. I love melee too, but i think everything should have a real use in the game. @f3rret: No knockdown means a very serious change.

@Impetiso: I always use Lucky. I think its one of the best traits. Currently i gathered ~350 pistol and ~200 shotgun shots in over two month (like you i try to loot all zeds). With the firearm-nerf in effect i have to say it wouldnt be possible for me to kill such a horde with that amount of ammo. You atleast would need to level firearms first, which takes a lot of ammo (actually i think you would need the double to triple amount, but hard to figure with complex shotgun use and zeds not dieing to first shot). Sure, if you gather as much as you or even more, you could take them out in lategame, but i dont think anything is wrong with that. It should be possible to kill them all if you manage to get the ressources, but it should need effort and take a lot of preperation/dedication to do so. An important aspect here is that you have something that really needs you to use firearms, which currently nothing does! @Suomiboi: When i read the Mondoid, this is what i thought. Melee-skill change will probably have a huge impact on the game. If the "guarding" aspect is good, it can be a buff. If damage is overnerfed (through not hitting), it can be a serious nerf. If you can do good damage with 3 points into the perk i think it will be okay, since that is easily obtainable. I for one will wait till 29 goes life to see how it is, but it for sure can change a lot. Another concerning thing seems to be the limited number of skillpoints and the growing number of skills. Might not be a problem in lategame, but in the first month for sure.

The endgame aspect is, that they can tear down your forts. Currently, and maybe even with NPC`s (that is to be seen) there is no threat to forts. Therefore its not enough to build a fort, stockpile food/weapons/ammo/etc., you need a system where you have multiple checkpoints - fallback houses. And it would take serious effort to win your terrain (your stuff) back. And i dont know about you, but i dont think ammo is that common, that everyone finds it easy to have enough bullets to kill a 500+ horde. I would say we would have more endgame than we have now. The more there is, the better.

Well, a horde is simply a really big group of Zeds that you can not put down with melee weopons (atleast not without really high effort). Most importantly it is a group so big, it is able to tear down any fort. By horde i am thinking of like 200-500 Zeds that wander around town and not sit still (would need testing, this is just my shot in the blue how much i think would fulfill the role)! I dont speak of those 10-50 zed-groups we see currently that stand around on some places. They are no big threat for experienced zombiekillers, therefore no "endgame" potential is coming from them. The problem with current zombie-groups further is, that you can easily take them out one by one in a kiting manner. There normally is no real need to shoot around except for you wanting to have some fun. But if you NEED guns, and if you NEED a few safehouses to survive "endgame", there is a whole new thrill and overall survival strategy to enjoy. Maybe the game would be too hard for some fellas out there, so it would be cool to have that just as an option in the beginning of the game to choose from. Regarding NPC`s: Hope they make the game more difficult and not easier. Sounds at least highly interesting (personality and stuff). Along those lines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ZoTio49OE

Well, good to hear, they atleast know the problem. What i didnt understand is that when i started i had plenty material on youtube showing hordes tearing players apart, so why not just reintroduce the old system until you come up with something better? Dont get me wrong, all the stuff they made and worked on the last year (cooking, trapping, fishing, etc.) is nice and all, but if you cut it down to raw survival it has no value, since the game (balancewise) doesnt even need it. You can live perfectly for years by eating just the non-perishable stuff. Therefore i think it would be much more important to just concentrate on the core part - game balance, before doing any of the fluffy stuff. As it stands there is no real "endgame"-survival.

Hi! As someone who was taking a look back at the game every now and then (since i like it and it has lots of future potential), i again gave it a try recently, to see if it gained difficulty. Still, the main mode (Survival) is far too easy. To be honest, it got even easier since you cut out any crawlers that were in houses (you only see them every fewhundred zombiekills now), because those were always in for some surprise. I dont think its bad they are gone (they were kinda unpredictable and could get you even if prepared, cause sometimes you couldnt see them lying on the floor), but this game lacks a real threat (btw. zombies in houses seem to be generally less then they uses to be. I remember opening bathrooms and three Zeds attacking me instantly.). As the title tells you, my suggestion is to make a big horde, and let it hit the village/city the player is in at some point in the game, like 1-3 month into the game. There has to be a greater threat to the player than just the normal walkers. There has to be something that threatens the walls the survivalist builds. Otherwise its BORING! Think along the line of The Walking Dead. There is always a big horde, and it is what makes everything exciting! MAKE US RUN FOR OUR LIFES IN FEAR! PLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSE!

Updated the weapon section after some extensive testing: .) Blunt weapons are your friend. Durable, and with higher Skill fast in killing. Hammers are the best in slot weapon for in house action. They are by far the best for close range combat, with their ability to knockback without "loading" the weapon long, easy knockdown and fast killing. They never exhaust you character cause the hammer is a light weapon. If you dont have any then use frying pans. Dont try to use any heavy weapon (golf clubs, baseball bats, crowbars, etc.), they exhaust you pretty fast. .) Never ever use blade-weapons, except axes, cause they have no knowdown! Knockdown is key in controlling the combat. The axe is the best in slot weapon for outdoor melee-combat. It can oneshot enemys. In close range combat, you dont have a chance, if many opponents are there, cause you cant "reload" the weapon that fast and its weak and without knockback with the normal swings. So take my advice serious to change to hammers for in indoor combat. You can kill Zeds at safe range, without risking anything. Beware though, that the axe, like any heavy weapon, can drain you pretty fast and make you exhausted. In this state, you get tired very fast. So if your char has the first or second stage of tiredness, you should abort combat, or change to a lighter weapon.

You can make multiple exits on a water fortress. You'd just have to use sheet ropes and make sure they hang over land. Are they working now? Often heard from deaths trying to use them.

I am eagerly awaiting them. I thought there will be big hordes in WP, but only saw the usual groups up to +/- 20. But i am still north of town now. Maybe i will see a lot more in downtown. @thiosk: With Lucky i find lots of baseball bats. I have like 12 or so now, just from the north of WP. Do you use the Clumsy trait? I noticed that too, but i am not sure, what lurks them out. Are they heading towards me in connection to real noises made/metaevents, or is there some other sort of "playermagnet"-mechanic we had in earlier versions of the game. If the letter is the case, that would kind of p*** me off. :-/

Nice find. Thumbs up.

Further testing have revealed that Keen Hearing is not a must have trait. Therefore it is removed from the recommended list. The normal hearing range is far too good for this to be needed. Instead i took Lucky in. Resilent too, but i dont know if Clumsy is good as negative trait. Would need more testing. Maybe Hard of Hearing is a better negative trait. Would need testing too. The game changed since i last played. First, there are now lots of little groups running around. This wasnt the case pre 21. A lot more killing has to be done. I am at 1,5k kills just 3 weeks into the game. In my first serious attempt i had like 2k after 5 month or so. Second, and i am not sure what to think about it quite yet: I noticed, that those groups running around often seem to be heading right at me. I thought that this kind of mechanic was taken out of the game? When i was setting my 4th safehouse up yesterday i had to go out and kill little groups 7 times one after another. So, i was in the house putting stuff together, heard some shamblers nearing, went out, killed them, went back in. Heard some shamblers, went out, and so on and so forth. Everytime i cleared the entire surrounding before getting back in. Either this was a really odd coincidence, or the old mechanic is back to some degree. Pretty annoying stuff. Another thought on this was that it could be connected with the clumsy trait not working as intended. What else changed? Repair is in. Didnt use it. Will only do for axes i think. There are too many good blunt weapons in the game, so its not really needed beside that. So, when is the return of the big hordes? Want to use fireweapons.

Thx. Went with a combination now.

Sup Zombiehunters? Well, i was pretty surprised this thread is still alive. Have to say i stopped playing shortly after my character stuck (bugged) on the stairs. Just too frustrating to make no fault, almost cleared whole muldraugh and then get screwed over by such a silly bug. Watched Season 4 of the Walking Dead last two days, and wanted to kill some Zeds after that, so i started a new game. I am in WP now. Have to say its harder playing panicked now. Field of view is made drastically smaller and overall you have to be more aware of your surroundings. Means a lot of 360° turns. But all in all, its seems perfectly playable. You hear when someone is near you, even if you dont see him imediately. So, be on your toes and ready to react anytime. In my current build i am testing another setup, with the Lucky, Clumsy and Resilent trait. If wiki is right, lucky is a musthave trait now: You tend to find rarer objects such as axes and shotguns. Also an increased chance of getting scratched or not getting hit at all to getting bitten. Wording looks pretty silly, but i think it means, you have less chance to get scratched and bitten. So, if true, this is awesome. If this goes well, i might change the optimal setup then. To your suggestion Sadeyx: I wont change the post to pdf. I think thats not really needed. Wasnt planned as a extra big guide in the beginning, but it grew more and more. Wouldnt mind to change the topic name for clarification though, and put a "spoiler" warning in it, but unfortunately its not possible for me to edit that. So what is left as an option, is to give a warning in the beginning.

Hey. Update: Wrote axes in as exception. Added the two other points: zombie looting and crawler-test. I started a new game today, and took the usual traits. Panics seems to work differently now (zombie fading). Now i know what someone was talking about before. Maybe it was bugged before, like i suggested. Still needs more testing before i make final conclusions. Could be i have to rewrite the trait section. Second thing is the lucky/unlycky trait. I am interested if it affects the chance to get bitten/scratched. Any experiences with the traits since version 21 guys?

Two good points, will fill them in later today. Thanks for the input. I tested other blade-weapons with the Strong trait (since i had no axe), with the result of being scratched and bit shortly after each other (which i luckily both survived). Edit: Tested the axe (found 3 in the tool shop in WP). It has knockdown, and can be used like any blunt weapon. Did a few onehits with 0 blade-skill, so seems to work pretty fine. Only downside is you get exhausted pretty fast like with other heavy weapons. Unfortunately i am currently stuck on selfbuild stairs with my safegame, and my char is not able to move. That pretty much sucks bigtime. I looted like 80%+ of Muldraugh, so if i have to start again, i will test Westpoint next time. I hope it is more challenging then Muldraugh.

Good to hear my friend. You are welcome.

Hm. Before i get last stage of tired, i am normally in my bed (or doing something in my safe-zone). Only on one occation within nearly 3 ingame month now i had to fight zeds in this tired state, and i had a few blackouts back then, so i know what you mean. But seriously: If you play safe, this is absolutely no problem. The vision in panic-mode is eagle clear.

For roleplaying reasons it might be reasonable, but gameplay wise i dont think its a problem. I personally have no clue how panic actually reduces hearing (or even sight), but it doesnt seem to do any big percentage (maybe its bugged, idk). I am playing perma panic, and i can hear all moving zeds way before they get near me, so keen hearing seems to work fine. On paper that might sound right, but practically i found it to be the opposite. So personally i think noone should let the points of the panic traits out. Maybe someone with more trait experience can share his/her knowledge and we get a clearer picture how it exactly works with time.

@Bojanglatron: Doesnt sound too bad. Unfortunately 2 points is not enough for another positve trait. @BlackPaladin: Did you have real problems with any of those? (Agoraphobic, Claustrophobic, Brooding, Cowardly, Light Drinker, Short Tempered) Cause i didnt.

@Blackpaladin: I think Graceful is pretty cool and useful, but Keen Hearing is key. For me it is better to know where the enemy is, even when i am not able to be stay as undetected as i did with Graceful (if my testing shows otherwise, i might reconsider). There is nothing in lategame that can give you that advantage via skill. There were several occations, when it safed my life. Axes could be a special case, but i didnt test them in combat (dont have one currently, so couldnt even test if i wanted). But since i checked with the wiki and they dont have knockdown (cause this is a blunt weapon thing), i doubt it is a 100% safe to use weapon. Maybe with high weaponskill if you can onehit every zed. But on the way to that high weaponskill it would probably too be risky to use. So even in the best case, if its really an outstanding weapon (axe), i think its not recommendable to use blade weapons. Blunt weapons are plenty in the game, i think its not possible to run out on them (only in earlygame like you described), and as i already noted, they deal plenty of damage with high skill. @Bojanglatron: You got some good points. Thanks for the input. I will take some of your suggestions. Out of curiosity: How are your experiences with shortsight?

Updates: Erased the Hypochondraic trait (either bugged or a really bad trait. when on paper sounded promising). Therefore had to erase the Graceful trait too. Bye bye ninja stealth. :-/ (i hope this can be overcome in lategame by the sneaking skill) Advice to never use blade-weapons (not safe in use). Advice to be careful when you knock down zeds (in groups) and they dont stand up, because they are now lurking crawlers.

Didnt know about the hold e thingy. Added this as tip and also barricade/unbarricade, but decided to let the fast forward tip out, cause i think in rare cases it could be dangerous (not in current build, but with zeds walking all over the place).

Corrected section character creation, looting and carpenting. Created section combat tactics, on the run, right location to stay and barricading. Please feel free to comment or add anything you think is worthwile. If it makes sense i will try to correct or add it. @imortalz: You erased the post before i did the correction. As i recall you had the window e-key thing and the carpenter skill pushing in mind. Did i forget something? @Clonecommando: Feel free to post it as you like. Maybe the post should get updated sometime later. Its a very good idea, since many people might just look on the steam forum, and not into this one. I dont care for my name being involved (therefore no need to post my name). What is a internet synonym worth anyway? Only important thing is that other gamers have a nice and easy entry into the game. Its not fun to search for half an hour in forums and youtube to find a way to cook a soup, or how to make a campfire.