Lothar
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Posts posted by Lothar
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Don't triple post, please. The software can handle multiple quotes within one post just fine.
Sorry!
Just to be clear Lothar, I didn't warn you. It's my policy to never warn people who are being rude to me, and instead let another mod or admin handle the situation so that I'm not biased.
I've said, already, that I've built houses from the ground up. I can literally link a picture of a house I built with my hands from wood. It was not prefab. It has a concrete slab under it and a concrete foundation.
So far all you have said is that I don't know what I'm talking about. You haven't bothered to give one once of real world experience or cite a source. Until you actually have some evidence to back up your claims against someone who actually has experience in the field, maybe you should consider for just the briefest of seconds that I'm not pulling this out of my ass and I do know what I'm talking about. But maybe that's too much to expect from the Internet.
Yeep! my mistake to haven't read from who was the warn!
"But maybe that's too much to expect from the Internet." don't make that sad face man.. I'm friendly here!
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And in the interest of irony: whilst pointing out the fact that I don't know what I'm talking about, you missed the fact that most of the coliseum is made of stone, not concrete. What concrete there is was made by professionals which makes your point entirely worthless. No one is arguing that concrete doesn't exist, just that it isn't plausible for every day people to find all of the equipment, have the know how. , and manage to do it all on their own.
It's mostly build with concrete my friend. It's the concrete that keeps the stones togheter. (must know that builder!)
You need some evidence of what I'm saying? No problem at all send me Private Message and I'll give you the site were you can actually come for a vacation in some of my own builded houses here in Italy (not put it here cause I don't want to share my privacy with everyone). Come and see how we build in the proper manners. I'm in this business since I'm 18 and now I'm 25. Quite of experiece man. Thanks to my dad architectures we are quite good in business.
And I'm quite sure that every human with a working brain can use concrete, and that explain why his use go soo back in history. I think that if you have to, you will learn pretty quikly how it works and how to use it.
But again you don't think so? Fine, that's your opinion.
Just don't say that's too difficult, 'cause simply: IT AIN'T in my opinion.
I don't know the science behind all of it, but here's what would be awesome about cement walls. First, off: They shouldn't be able to be broken down by zombies, and you can only break them with a lot of swings from a sledgehammer. Now, here's the balance.
You can't build a doorframe out of cement, since you don't have the tools to cut open said cement. So basically, you could have an entire shack built out of cement, but you'd need a wooden doorframe and door. So if you don't plan ahead and only build one doorway, sure your WALLS are invincible, but not your door.
Basically, unless you do proper planning, you could have your only exit completely blocked by zombies. And if a horde is coming and they wrap around and start beating on all your exits? You're fucked, whereas with a wooden wall you just chop it down with an axe and leg it. You probably wouldn't have the time to smash down a cement wall.
I think that's reasonable. And if you don't want the cement walls to be invincible, at least give them a shitload of health so that it takes zombies a VERY long time to break them down. I think you'd have to do that anyways, so that it takes the player a while to bust down the wall with a sledgehammer. I dunno though.
"You can't build a doorframe out of cement, since you don't have the tools to cut open said cement."
That's not how you do a doorframe man, you don't cut it, you just shape the container for the cement like doorframe!
I deleted about four paragraphs of text because I think I finally understand you.
First, Rathlord isn't talking about the weight of a bag of concrete versus a bag of cement, he's talking about the weight of the finished walls.
I said before a 4'x8'x6" slab would weigh over 200 pounds. 240-250, probably. That means a ten-foot wall of concrete would weigh about 600 pounds. Enough to cover one side of a house (say 40 feet, no extra length for a garden) would weigh more than a ton (or 1,088 kilos). Unless you're making a wall out of nothing but tree trunks I think you'll find that a wooden wall is considerably lighter.
If the concrete weren't resting on a firm base and properly constructed it would split apart under its own weight (it is, suprisingly, very brittle) as the ground below it sank down unevenly - or worse, it would topple over and destroy or kill anything it lands on.
Second, while the process of building a concrete wall should be straightforward and simple in the game (like in my suggestion so many people seem to like
) the difficulty should be balanced by an incredibly high resource requirement such as needing to mix several bags of cement and a few containers of water for every single section and possibly a need for one or more survivors to help you.In game, the process is simple but the resource requirmenets are not, making this a straightforward, easy-to-learn mechanic that can still be restricted to endgame status by requring a huge manpower investment (and therefore probably a large group) in terms of not only construction but going out and scavenging what you need for your group to even consider this a posibility.
Also, as an aside, I could totally build a wall with a hammer and a few nails. That's generally how it's done.
Sure you can build a wall with only nails and hammer but can be kick down easly if you don't make a really good proper base. And takes a lot of time to do that, and again quite of a know how. And for SURE it ain't enoght just an hammer and some nails.
How you gonna keep the zombie or even the wind to don't make this fall to pieces? No man you need to dig (with an hammer???) deep in the ground and stick there some logs to be your base. Then you can try to buid your wall.
AGAIN NOT THAT SIMPLE AND NOT THAT "EVERYBODY CAN DO IT IN SMALL TIME".
So you see... I don't even know why we are still talking of something that has found his end with this:
"All three of this operation are hard to perform.
It's just that 2 are in-game, so they go simple and smooth, and 1 isn't in-game."
About the weight: I must have understand wrong then!
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Lothar, I'm afriad I have to disagree with you there. Working with wood - and I am a carpenter more or less by trade - is far far far far easier than working with cement. I don't want to make a long argument, especially if your English is not very good. But consider this:
I have built plenty of walls out of wood. Most of them went reasonably quickly and didn't crumple like paper when I was done.
I've also built things out of cement. I've seen that go wrong more often. As I mentioned in one of my posts, I've seen an improperly constructed frame burst open at the bottom and dump wet cement all over our working area. I've seen a slab, poured without real knowledge of what to do, split completley down the middle in the first week. I've seen a wall where the cement wasn't worked in properly around the rebar while being poured end up full of holes when the frame came off.
The point is, not only is working with wood easier and faster, but there's also a lot less that can go wrong if you mess up. With lumber, if you nail a board in the wrong place you just pry it off and try again. With concrete your mistakes are permanent and costly.
Not the same thing. Not the same at all.
That's what I say, never say that they are the same:
"Have you ever plastered a wall guys? Is not that simple and it requires more tools than just the buket. But in-game is faster than barricating.
Have you ever build a wall, some stairs with wood? It will surelly requires many tools than just "hammer and nails", and also quite a manual skill to make it stand and resist properly. Is not that simple AT ALL. But in-game is easy like drinking a beer.
So, why are you saing that is hard to do a concrete wall? (wicth it is, I'm not saing that isn't)
It's pointless to put out that.
All three of this operation are hard to perform.
It's just that 2 are in-game, so they go simple and smooth, and 1 isn't in-game."
In fact the only problem here is that Ratlord don't like the idea. Like he has just wrote. And what I'm saying is that if you can do a wall with wood in-game you should be able to do a concrete wall. Just like in real life. That's the end of it.
But if Ratlord start saying "it's to hard, to heavy (witch is just no sense, try to carry a log or a bag of concrete then you tell me what's the heaviest!) and all, well I think I should tell him that's not right.
No harsh fellings agaist him of course!
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Please, tell me more about how I haven't built houses for a living. I'm so interested in hearing...
Really a warning?
For what?? Guys I don't know how to explain my self propely in english but to me it wasn't hars! I mean I even put smiles in it!
Too sensitive for my taste.. any way you are the moderator, so you shall moderate. "Not Lovely" had make my laught so hard!
Rathlord, if really you do houses for a living you are surelly not an european to have this kind of thinking on carpentry. I mean seems like you don't have any idea of how hard and full of skill you must be to buid a damn wall in wood that actually stand without any proper base. And you claim that is super hard to do a concrete wall witch basiclly need only a proper cointainer for the "colata" of concrete and a proper mix of water and concrete. It's so easy to use and that even the COLOSSEUM IS MADE IN CONCRETE like almost all the buildings in the Roman age. And there was no modern tools at that time. Just men using their brains and arms to build something that is still here in the modern age.
Repeat: NO MODERN TOOLS that could be available everywhere nowdays that make it so much easier to use.
That's why you don't seems to have any idea of how construction works, the real construction not the semi-prefabbricated houses that are in America. I'll love to be very more detailled with the process of making concrete but I can't make my self clear with english. And that's sucks.
p.s. don't be so sensitive about this one! No harsh fellings!
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Cement IS harder than wood, though. By a long margin. I can show you pictures of the house I built from the ground up and the shit concrete slab that we made. Wood is so much easier and less time consuming I can barely believe you're actually making the comparison...
Man you don't know what are you talking about. Seriously. No idea at all.
Anyway I have really no time or wish (since that I have to explain using english and it's hard for me) to explain you why are you so terribly wrong. Talking about weight is ridicuolus too; did you ever lift a... nevermind is useless to explain the reality to you guys!
You really have no idea.
But it's fine keep the drean on!!P.S. Guys go try to make a wall with wood then tell me how much time it takes and if it doesn't fall like a piece of paper! ... Ahhahahah!
Moderator WarningNot lovely.
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We already have the cement powder, it's just that you can't make anything with it for now
Glad to hear that!
Yeah, the problem here is : I have no clue how to make a cement wall... Hey, I'm a geek, not a construction worker
So I need to make some research on that (or maybe the team have already their idea on it, haven't talked about it with them...) to find a realistic solution to make cement wall...
Ahahah!
Just like I have no idea how to program a game!
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And without the right footing and base for that footing, it'll probably fail too.
This all seems like a hell of a lot of effort for something that could be accomplished at a much grander scale with wood.
Have you ever plastered a wall guys? Is not that simple and it requires more tools than just the buket. But in-game is faster than barricating.
Have you ever build a wall, some stairs with wood? It will surelly requires many tools than just "hammer and nails", and also quite a manual skill to make it stand and resist properly. Is not that simple AT ALL. But in-game is easy like drinking a beer.
So, why are you saing that is hard to do a concrete wall? (wicth it is, I'm not saing that isn't)
It's pointless to put out that.
All three of this operation are hard to perform.
It's just that 2 are in-game, so they go simple and smooth, and 1 isn't in-game.
You're right.
We'd better make crafting harder.
Romain! Romain!
I didn't say that. I'm fine the way it's now. I'm saying that cement isn't more hard to manage than wood. Life experiece.
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And without the right footing and base for that footing, it'll probably fail too.
This all seems like a hell of a lot of effort for something that could be accomplished at a much grander scale with wood.
Have you ever plastered a wall guys? Is not that simple and it requires more tools than just the buket. But in-game is faster than barricating.
Have you ever build a wall, some stairs with wood? It will surelly requires many tools than just "hammer and nails", and also quite a manual skill to make it stand and resist properly. Is not that simple AT ALL. But in-game is easy like drinking a beer.
So, why are you saing that is hard to do a concrete wall? (wicth it is, I'm not saing that isn't)
It's pointless to put out that.
All three of this operation are hard to perform.
It's just that 2 are in-game, so they go simple and smooth, and 1 isn't in-game.
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It's worth mentioning that no matter how strong you are, you won't be severing a spinal cord in one swing with a plain axe. The only times axes can be used for decapitation is if the subject is laying on the ground on a block and you have an executioner's axe (probably 5x heavier than a normal axe, at least 3x heavier than a fireman's weighted axe) and you let gravity do most of the work. There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that accounts of decapitation with axes, swords, and the like in combat situations are entirely made up. I can cite sources if you're interested.
Didn't know that.. fun fact!
Worry not. Knifes aren't 1 hit kill anymore post .15
They may make zombies fall in 1 hit, but you'd have to stab the downed one atleast 1 more time (it may end up being 8 times too).
In real life you can beat the shit out of person with a baseball bat and he will still be alive. Imagine the same deal with a zombie, who ignore/don't feel pain and need their brain to be SHATTERED to die. So for me 1 Charged hit + 2-5 downed hits is completely fair and realistic to take down a zombie.
Axes are another deal. If you don't apply enough damage it might get stuck in zombie's body. It'd be good if you hit the brain,he'll just fall down dead, but what if the axe is stuck in zombie's shoulder, and he keeps going towards you? Nearly impossible to pull out then.
The system is fine as it is
Seems like you are one of the fews that have understand that my Topic is deliberately a (how do you say in english: 'na strunzata?) pointless. No need to arguing. "I'm ok with that" like I've said!
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Well post 9.15 (I think it was) it became a lot harder to get a one hit kill, since it seems there's a much higher chance that the "downed" zom is really just a new zom with lower HP. The biggest advantage to knife is that it requires nearly no charge time at all, unlike an axe. So getting that second hit to finish them off is a lot quicker. Just tap tap.
Personally I'd like to see the better weapons, or weapons capable of doing X amount of damage, having a higher chance of a proper decapitation of a zom.
Yeah, that's what I want to see to. Not just "hit them nice and softly wile they are on the floor".
Nice to hear that knives are less deadly in post .15..
I think its good, knife wont last long and you have to get very close, where as the fire axe should only take 2-3 swings without skill points which is realistic enough, your not going to get a clean head sever on a moving target everytime. With this you get longer lasting durability and to keep target at a distance so I feel its equally balanced.
Sorry i bet that's not what you wanted to hear!
No that's ok!
But man "realistic"? even my 15 years old sister could kill a man with an axe in one good shot.. so think at what a construction worker, strong, light drinker, prone to rage, brooding guy named "Jack the Beast" would do to a man's head?
Because a 2h weapon that hits multiple zeds and kills in one hit would be insanely OP?
No need to be always one hit.. even a 20-25% would be good.
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Now, can somebody tell me why the fuck I kill zeds like lambs with knives? (1 hit kill)
But with a damn Axe or other blunt I can't beat the shit out of them? (can be 1, so damn rare, or 10 hit)
I mean... it's quite nonsense.
I've just think about that wile I was working in the joinery.. I thought: "I can easly smash my collegue head with one shot with an axe, why can't I do it in PZ?". You can tell it was an hard day.
Ok. I have complained enought, no real need to tell me why. I'm ok with that but you know.. just to.
Your turn.
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Maybe you could craft a frame in your inventory out of some number of planks, then place that in the world where you want your wall to be. Mix your cement and use it on the frame, and you get a drying wall. After a day or two (maybe more depending on rain) you could use a hammer or crowbar to recover the frame item and leave behind a solid wall. The frame could then be re-placed in the world and used to build the same structure again.
That's exacltly what I am talking about.
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wow unlucky bro.
I did that once too
btw whats the highest tower u guys evar made?
It was a 4 floor for me..
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Managed to beat my previous time by a couple of weeks, albeit in .16 but I'm still happy with myself.
As you can see in the pics above, as things hit the one month mark my safehouse became somewhat crowded and I had to have words with the locals (my baseball bats are very chatty
). On the food front, I raided both the pancake and burger places early on but never in the nearly 2 months touched any of it, 300 berries stocked up saw me through very nicely. I did have a go at farming but with the water barrels being moody about relinquishing their contents I just filled my face with more berries.I am determined to hit my next marker of 2 months though.
Man... i just died like an idiot. I was making a watching tower on the 3 floor. That was great I can see really all my damn safehouse. Then I click the wrong button, "E" instead of "R" to rotate the damn fence I was building, aaand I jumped off the fence.
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Managed to beat my previous time by a couple of weeks, albeit in .16 but I'm still happy with myself.
As you can see in the pics above, as things hit the one month mark my safehouse became somewhat crowded and I had to have words with the locals (my baseball bats are very chatty
). On the food front, I raided both the pancake and burger places early on but never in the nearly 2 months touched any of it, 300 berries stocked up saw me through very nicely. I did have a go at farming but with the water barrels being moody about relinquishing their contents I just filled my face with more berries.I am determined to hit my next marker of 2 months though.
Great job man!
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We already have the cement powder, it's just that you can't make anything with it for now
Glad to hear that!
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Why not the addition of rebar while we're at it? :3 Well if you want it to be as realistic as possible.. That's mandatory isn't it? Or am I mistaken? (I'm no mason or anything) Or is rebar so for adding extra strength? Either way.. rebar would be awesome... And it would make hell of a melee weapon
Why no?! that's good for me! but for buildings it's necessary only if you want to make reinforced concrete (and it's usually the best choice)..
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Currently about a month in, got a cupboard filled with non-perishables and a farm underway, about to start to build more fortifications, although I doubt I'll need them considering I'm at the cabin in the middle of the woods south-east of the town.
No idea if the rain catching barrel will effectively allow me to water the crops and the nearest well is a long way from my base.
So far haven't had a single zombie find my base, got a good feeling about this run.
Good Luck buddy!
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Planned, as far as I know.
Great!
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The new sledgehammer destruction is awesome, by the way. I can finally get to those crates in the back
Gonna need a bigger bag
WTF?!? Ahahahahahah!!
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Can't load my .15, game crash. (I'm on Mac)
Try a new one on .16:
-Can't use rain barrels, just can't click "Fill bottle or whatever".
-If I put on "equip secondary" on a bag and put stuff in there until is full (es. Plastic bag: 8/8) and then equip another bag, the weight of the firist wanish but keep the items in it. (usefull, but quite a cheat)
-Crafted doors still are impossible to pass.
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Nothing too interesting. The safehouse has never been attacked. Only in the past week have they suddenly moved closer. They are now SW of me at the gas station and in the woods. I think the movement stems from firing a gun in a nearby cell but maybe it was going to happen anyway.
One trick might be that I don't live here for continuous periods. 3-5 days tops then off to loot somewhere and return a few days later.
Great thanks for the pic man!
I was thinking about that trick the other day.. maybe they spawn next to where you sleep.
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REMEMBER: This is a forum test release because it may have new bugs or other serious issues, in fact a few we're aware of already and this latest build hasn't had a huge amount of closed testing. However we'd like to extend it to a forum test to get any remaining issues as quickly as possible.
If not comfortable with that, please wait until official release on Desura, which should hopefully be for Mondoid if it goes well. REMEMBER, it's always advised to manually back up your saves (C:\Users\<username>\Zomboid\<gamemode>) when using forum builds.
Windows: https://s3.amazonaws.com/alpha.projectzomboid.com/Project_Zomboid_Windows_2.9.9.16.zip
Mac: https://s3.amazonaws.com/alpha.projectzomboid.com/Project_Zomboid_MacOSX_2.9.9.16.zip
Linux AMD64 Deb: https://s3.amazonaws.com/alpha.projectzomboid.com/projectzomboid-amd64-2.9.9.16.deb
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Change list :
[New Stuff]
- Added a little icon over the inventory icon if the concerned item is equipped.
- Survival guide ! Explanation from Will :
It's not actually a full tutorial - just text people can read (and Spiffos to go 'daww!' at) to help newcomers while the official K&B tutorial is worked on.
It start automatically on a new game, but you can press F1 (default key) to toggle it.
Torch can flicker, especially when they're almost run out of batteries.Crawlers won't turn while attacking + Balanced them a bit.New key bindings : F2 to pause, F3 for normal speed, F4 for Fast Forward x1, F5 for Fast Forward x2, F6 for Fast Forward x3.DDouble click in any food in your inventory to eat it (more quick double click action coming).Double click in any item of the loot inventory to grab it.You now need to equip a bag to put things in it or get weight reduction, on your back or in one of your hand.Destroy furnitures, walls, stairs and almost anything with a Sledgehammer ! (right click then "Destroy").[bug Fix]- Fixed the zombie kill count.
- Torch now works properly.
- Rain now water your plants.
- Rain collector barrels doesn't share the same amount of water (you can now build multiple rain collector barrels).
- Fixed crawler attacking through wall.
- Fixed teleporting crops (again... Now it's all save in java, making the job easier for any modders, and should avoid all this kind of problem).
- No more "exploding" zombie when entering a new house.
- Changed the inventory male zombie icon for the correct one.
- You can't do action while sleeping.
- Balanced the zombie density a bit.
- Lowered the time needed to water your plant.
- Lua debugger. We're post instructions on modding forum on release. Hold L-SHIFT when loading PZ to go into debug mode.
- Default key for debuger is F11, it's bindable in the option.
Mac Users need to follow these steps to use the debugger:
Open your PZ.app and look for a file called "Info.plist" then search for this line:
<string>-noverify -XX:+UseNUMA -XX:+AggressiveOpts -XX:+TieredCompilation -XX:Tier2CompileThreshold=70000 -XX:CompileThreshold=1500 -Xms64m -Xmx512m -XX:+UseAdaptiveSizePolicy -XX:GCTimeRatio=50 -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=20</string>
add "-Ddebug" to it (of course before the last </string> tag).
YEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!
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Three and a half months in .15. Havent died yet, just lost interest. Ill try 16 this weekend.
I basically loot hard for two weeks, establish a base on the edge of town and then travel to farm, dixie, the eastern plain, the sw, etc. Hit all the distant spots then leave when they get hot (usually pretty fast). They are starting to get closer to the bar where my main base is located. Probably it will hit the fan by month four.
In .15 town is extremely dangerous after a few weeks. Ive made several runs through to transport supplies from N to S an can manage it but it's tense.
TIPS:
My first focus is bags. I need a good hiking bag. I want three (in .15) asap. In .16 I suspect Ill just need two. (hand/back)
Next up is water cans, buckets and food.
Then fill up all the cans in one spot as my water cache. Though I keep grabbing more cans and buckets whenever I find them.
Then go back for more food.
Then start getting the tools together
By week two or three I usually start building something somewhere or I'm long range travelling.
When you pick up a spare gun, make sure it goes into a bag. If you hot button for the gun, it can pull up the looted empty gun otherwise. Not fun to click, click, click when you expected a loaded gun.
Wow wow wow.. need to see a screenshot of that record man, not that I don't belive you but I want to see!
Anyway that's impressive, I guess your main base must be painted with the blood of zombies all over! doesn't seems possible to not have them knocking on your base after the month. (at least in my two games on .15)
So far I'm only using shotguns, didn't have pistols. And I leave them at the base, I use them only when They come to pay a visit in large numbers.
In this second attempt I'm stable at the construction site next the McCoy Logging barricating the place like crazy. Had to travel in every damn warehouse to get all the nails, by the way they re-spawn in crates?, also had a long trip to the "ALIVE INSIDE warehouses" in the South.
Here some nice pics of the place:
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Cement for buildings
in PZ Suggestions
Posted
... so you don't want to see what are my building skill Rathlord? Go on Booking and tipe "Aosta-Chambres D'Amis" that's just a little taste of what can be done using your brain... and then you can see how u can use cement, wood, steel in the proper manner. (since that for you is impossible to manage to use concrete or any other material for everybody that isn't "expert"!)
Man what I'm saying is the simple truth: EVERYBOY can use cement, EVERYBODY can learn how to use it.
Simply deal with that man, everybody can be an "expert". (sorry to take off your title!)
Now do you want to keep talking about useless stuff, like the "mostly".. just kid talk there.. so sad to read from an "expert". The fact is the SAME is concrete that keep it together. And OF COURSE is spread between the stones. (it's so OBVIOUS that, I didn't think it was needed a mention, since that I'm talking to a "builder for living" right?). No need to be a genius to do that. Not even "expert".
Why do you keep clutch at straws?
I'm gonna post a video on Y-T where I make a concrete wall my-self, like a tutorial.
So maybe when you see it you will stop argouing about nothing..
P.S. Do me a favor and do a research for the use of concrete (calcestruzzo, cemento, calce) in the history.
Discover why it's always used in fortification. Find out why there are so many different techniques to use it. Find why everybody can learn how to use it, not even using modern techniques.
FACTS MAN, NOT POINT OF VIEW.
Seems like we are!