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RobertJohnson

Need more help for weapons..

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You're right, I misread that- my apologies. Posting from the can at work from my iPhone. Anyways, I've said my peace and this argument has run its course. Devs can make up their own mind from here, and according to Einstein if I kept debating this, I'd be insane (or so the story goes).

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Viceroy, get back to me when you have real firearms experience. I've been hunting at night. Holding a flashlight by the stock of your gun is MUCH easier to hold than having it on the end. It's a simple matter of physics- as EG mentions.

You thinking that holding a rifle o your shoulder and aiming it isn't strenuous on the body just shows your ignorance. Many hunters won't even take a shot without having something to rest the gun on because it's quite hard to hold a steady aim standing up. This isn't because of magic, it's because guns are heavy to hold out like that.

If you're in such a shitty situation that you're trying to kill zombies at close range in the dark with a rifle, you either need to run or die. You'd be infinitely better off with a melee weapon. If you're trying to shoot zombies within the very short range cone of light provided by a small enough flashlight to fit on the end of your gun, then you deserve to be naturally selected out when the zombies kill you. There's no scenario where having a light on the end of a high powered hunting rifle would increase the odds of your survival.

 

Sure dude, you are "The Expert" after all.

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Berret-tipping and c*ck measuring aside, lets get back to Project Zomboid.

 

From a practical (and gaming) perspective, I would rather mount a flashlight to a rifle and suffer long-ranged aiming penalties than have to fiddle with my inventory and swap between Gun and Flashlight every other minute to navigate in the dark.

 

If I can mount a flashlight to my gun and use it as a big-ass torch that lets me PROD THE BARREL OF THE RIFLE INTO THE ZOMBIES CHEST AND PULL THE TRIGGER If I need to, then I would be much happier!

 

I'm pretty certain that I, who has never fired a real gun in my life, would still be able to shoot a zombie when the barrel of my gun is tickling his belly button.

Unless there's some kind of rocket science to pulling a trigger that I'm not aware of.

 

Besides, we're not "hunting" skittish zombies. We're defending ourselves by any means possible. Stupid ideas or not. :)

It is the apocalypse ladies and gentlemen, not the SAS.

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What about an idea that also solves the problem and aligns with the realistic expectations of our fans? It's also worth noting you don't need a light to pull the trigger if you're "tickling their belly buttons" anyways. PZ doesn't get that dark.

Let us hold a secondary item with two-handed items equipped, but have the effect go away when we go into combat stance. This would simulate your ability to carry a rifle/axe/whatever in one hand and a flashlight in the other. When you go into combat stance it's quickly shoved in a pocket or what have.

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lol, what good would it do to pistol whip a zombie? they don't really have to worry about their teeth getting broken anymore

 

If you have ever held a gun you would know they carry some weight and can be used similar to a clubbed weapon, although shorter.  Are you saying you couldn't bash a zombies head in with a club?

 

strange jump in logic there.

 

i have held many guns, shotgun, rifle and pistol alike. what i said, as quoted, is what good would it do to "Pistol Whip" a zombie. it seems that term is open to many variations, but the one i had in mind was using the barrel to smack someone in or around the mouth.

 

would i try to bash a zombies head in with a pistol? nope, puts me way too close to them, would give them the chance to grab or scratch me.

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With pistol whipping, attaching a flashlight etc, we do have to bear in mind that this game will and does already have human players that can't be handled the same way as zombies do. In this sense a head shot isn't required and the accuracy standards with that drop by quite an amount.

 

I don't know how other players damages are calculated, but as they likely differ to that of the zombies (or at least the effects caused by the damages should), people should remember that people are the other big threat that comes to play. I think that should already be thought about before the NPCs are in, so that there won't be that much more work for the devs again at that point.

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People are going insane here. Just want to point out a few things:

  • Duct tape could melt if in direct contact with the barrel (also plastic flash lights)
  • All (most) rifles in 'Murica have hand guards, at least on the bottom (top of barrel exposed), a lot of them full, to prevent burning your hands
  • Foregrip won't improve your accuracy if you've never shot before (I grip by the mag well even though there are arguments against this, IMO it is mostly user preference)
  • You can zero a weapon at 25 meters, the military does it this way (25 meter zero)
  • All weapons are zeroed to the user, but would still be fairly accurate to others.
  • Attachments are not universal. The majority of pistols don't have rails on top for optics, most don't have rails on bottom for lights. AR attachments cannot be attached to AKs (they usually have wood finish without rails) unless you have a modded AK. Some optics won't function the same on other weapons due to kick from larger caliber either shutting the optic off or ruining the zero.

I understand the argument about flashlights, it adds weight therefor reducing accuracy, however, I would like to point out that light sources are pretty useless in PZ.

 

The double hand requirement is probably the most important thing on this thread IMO. Try firing a pistol one handed, then do it with both hands. Accuracy is greatly increased with both hands if done properly.

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I understand the argument about flashlights, it adds weight therefor reducing accuracy, however, I would like to point out that light sources are pretty useless in PZ.

Turn off shaders . . . it sounds as though you're suffering from the "repressively blue" world bug.

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First, there's probably more guns than dogs in KY, so keep that in mind. Attachments are always popular, so might be even more attachments than dogs and cats combined. Ultimately, it's up to the devs to decide how to balance availability with gameplay. I'm guessing having half the houses with 2-3 guns and a few hundred rounds of ammo per isn't going to be the balance they want, but it'd be realistic if it was like that.

 

 

MAGAZINES

I think probably the most common mod is the simplest: different (or just extra) magazines. For example, with Glocks magazines in the same ammo family are usually interchangeable (at least upward in size, not sure about downward), plus they have some really large-sized ones, like a 19 or 33-round variant for 9mm. You can see here: http://eu.glock.com/english/magazines_compat.htm

 

I think that's worked really well in the DayZ series, as it's one more thing to help you build up your gear, and the better stuff's usually rarer, so it rewards long-term grinding (or luck).

 

I am hoping magazine management will be improved (ie you can tell how full one is (condition?) and can specify which to load into a gun and can also have an "unload" command instead of reusing "reload" as it does now). That would make this more pragmatic. Currently it's a bit too much of a confusion to deal with lots of different magazines for one gun, though (veering into suggestion territory, but it does need to be improved a good bit).

 

Also there are magazine extensions you can slap on any given magazine for some guns, which will add +2 rounds or something like that.

 

Requires no extra tools usually.

 

 

AMMO VARIANTS

Additionally, different ammo variants are probably the most common "modification". Going back to 9mm, there's +P and +P+ and other extra grain loads for harder hitting/faster/more accurate rounds. Most rounds you'd find lying around a house would likely be FMJ, typically used for target practice. There's additionally the popular JHP hollow point rounds, which are significantly better on soft targets (like zombies), but are more expensive so probably less common. Subsonic ("silenced") rounds should be extremely rare.

 

You can have buckshot/birdshot/slug variants for shotgun cartridges as well.

 

Of course, the current reloading system doesn't really work with this, since you can't specify a specific type of ammo to load, but I'm guessing that's nothing a few lines of code couldn't fix.

 

Requires no extra tools to use. There's also the option of loading your own ammo, but I'm guessing that's too in-depth for the game?

 

 

AFTERMARKET/NIGHT (tritium) SIGHTS

These are very common for handguns at least. Should help a lot with aiming, and night sights would help a lot at night (aim should be much lower in low light situations).

 

Requires a number of tools, probably can be done with household/workbench stuff, but people tend to send them into the manufacturer/gunshop to get them installed professionally.

 

 

FLASHLIGHTS & LASERS

Should require screwdriver, pocketknife, etc.

 

 

OPTICS

If there's an optics mounting point and the optics are compatible, shouldn't take more than a screwdriver/pocketknife usually. If it's an ironsights sort of replacement, it may be far more involved. Usually not for pistols, but quite common on rifles. Kind of pointless for shotguns.

 

 

STRAPS

So common for rifles, I'd think it'd be best to just assume they all had one, and so not actually include them in the game.

 

 

GRIPS

Been talked about.

 

 

MUZZLE BREAKS

Reduces recoil. Unsure about tools required.

 

 

ADJUSTABLE STOCKS

Should help a bit for aim/stability on rifles. Sort of integral, though, so probably not something to have in the game unless you have multiple variants of each rifle.

 

 

TRIGGER ADJUSTMENTS

A few things you can do to alter trigger pull. Requires tool sets.

 

 

MAINTENANCE
Should be required periodically for some guns, perhaps not at all for others. Basically requires: brush (toothbrush is ok), solvent or alcohol, bore brush (specific to caliber, rifle/pistol), oil/lube, cloth (not totally necessary I suppose). Should be quicker for pistols than rifles.

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Adjusting a trigger in a gun is fairly in-depth work, and the same with reloading bullets/shells. It's not something that fits the "Everyman" theme of PZ in my opinion. I don't even do my own trigger work for that matter.

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Oh my. How could I pass over this awesome topic! I'm by no means an ultimate gun expert, but I have Russian military background and now a gun owner myself, I shoot a .45 LC revolver and an AK on a regular basis. Just a few cents to contribute to possibly remove (or add?) some confusion.

 

1. Clip vs. magazine terms seem to be getting misused here. A magazine is a container for bullets that has a spring feed. A clip is just a container to store extra ammo. It does not feed the rifle, and does not stay in the rifle when it's being fired. You just plug it in, drop the bullets into the internal magazine, and put the clip back in your pocket. Clips are almost never used today, except in old rifles, like the Russian Mosin-Nagant, the SKS carbine, or the Swedish M-1. So unless we talking some old WW-1 era rifle relics, we're talking magazines, not clips.

 

2. Flashlights + duct tape. This will work wonders on a shotgun or pistol. Close quarters, indoors. We're talking about a hand held, no more than one pound, high density flashlight, turned to maximum focus light beam. Clearing buildings, backyards with fences that reflect light, great idea. If we're talking outdoors long range rifle action, any flashlight is useless for you. Remember, it all depends on range. Up close, you don't need much accuracy, no matter what you're using.
Also, extra weight on the barrel actually helps counter the recoil to a point. If anything, it will shift the position of your gun when it fires, and will take time getting used to, but between that and the darkness, I'd find that plenty viable. What works better than a flash light? A simple laser pointer toy taped to the rifle barrel. That will be good at night for up to 70-80 yards, give or take, if you have a scope to look through.

 

@Rathlord: While I fully agree that if I had the choice of pistol, shotgun, or high powered long rifle in a dark room in closed in space, I would pick a pistol or a shotgun, there is a scenario where the long rifle increases my chances of survival. That scenario being, if the rifle is all I have, and I must clear the house to search it. I spawn in a house with a rifle and a flash light, and three bullets, and there is a zombie hiding behind the closet in complete darkness? Yeah, i'm taping that sucker down and taking my chances running away from the ones who heard me outside. Though, since I possess a more or less normal healthy brain, which wishes to survive, I would not be taping the flash light to the END of the barrel, but closer to the center of mass of the rifle, possibly right under the grip, or on the side, or just in front of the clip, to act as a forward grip.

 

Flashlights in general are only useful in CQC, where action happens within 10, maximum 20 yards.

 

3. Choke tubes are amazing.

 

4. Bayonets. Taping a simple kitchen knife to a rifle's barrel won't work, but what will work? Using screws and a drill to make an actual steel piece attachment to host a dirk or an army combat knife or a sharpened envelope opener. Anything with a thick blade that doesn't easily bend. Would definitely be on my list to have in case of a zombie apocalypse.

 

Generally I would not use duct tape on anything related to combat. The level of impact is just too much for tape to properly withstand.

 

 

5. Here's an idea I have not seen mentioned (primarily because it's awful for most practical purposes).
Bump firing.

 

This is something kids used to do for fun, and by no means do I advocate bump-firing as a reliable method of long range combat, but one application of it does serve well in a zombie infested world.

Bump firing trades accuracy for rate of fire. It severely decreases the effective range of a gun, but allows you to fire automatic bursts, so it's perfect for taking out a huge running horde point blank. The idea is, you modify the stock of your rifle to have a spring to kick it back, and put a forward grip on the front of the rifle, a bit past the magazine. This allows you to use the recoil, to slide the trigger back, while your non-trigger hand keeps shoving the rifle forward using the forward grip, pressing the trigger onto your stationary trigger finger. This simulates automatic fire in semi-automatic rifles. Same can be done with semiautomatic pistols.

 

Youtube will explain the method in detail. Modification is doable with a screwdriver. Bump fire stocks were legal at some point, and were sold until a few years ago, so warehouse storages would have them, and maybe gun shop closets, but not the display counters.

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I'm pretty sure bump fired weapons (edit; that is, weapons with bump fire modifications) are completely illegal to own now (aka no grandfathering in). In a small town in Kentucky te chances of finding one are minuscule at best. Not worth adding at all IMO.

If you have a flashlight, a gun, a zombie in the house, and more outside pulling that trigger is suicide anyways. Kick the zombie over and smash it's skull, find a better weapon (anything not loud as fuck, even the flashlight or stock), or just close yourself in a room until morning. There's no scenario mate.

Edit: and if you were reaaaaally dead set on doing something this ill-advised, just holding it in your hand alongside the stock would be much less stupid; still functions the same, but if you need to drop one or the other you could. It also wouldn't make it harder to aim in normal situations (aka daylight).

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I understand the argument about flashlights, it adds weight therefor reducing accuracy, however, I would like to point out that light sources are pretty useless in PZ.

Turn off shaders . . . it sounds as though you're suffering from the "repressively blue" world bug.

 

The difference is insane. Thank you, good sir.

 

+10 internets

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@Rathlord:

Well see, I would not risk getting into melee with a zombie unless I absolutely have to. Because I don't know how big, strong, or fast any particular zombie is. I mean... it's a situational thing. And I could not hope to fire a rifle with one hand while holding a flashlight in another. Talk about accuracy drop. I'd tape it to the stock or the bottom of the chamber.

Also, does the game only support "good ideas"? Why not make bad ideas also possible, to trap people into making mistakes? Eating bad food is possible, getting sick is possible, turning on the light is possible. Why not make stupid modifications also possible? Just have them bring proper consequences.

 

I'm not insisting though. Everyone has their own opinion, and I've expressed mine, so I'm happy to leave it there.

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All of your examples are things that could be good ideas. If you barricade your windows, the lights can go on safely. Eating bad food is a meaningful decision if you're starving. I don't believe in having noob traps in games, though. In my humble opinion it's terrible game design.

Also, not suggesting you fire with one hand. You can clasp the stock under the barrel with a small flashlight as per your example, having it in hand alongside the gun. You retain the same close quarters accuracy and mobility (fairly bad in both cases) without having to do the crappy modification to your firearm, and also get the ability to use or drop either one singly if the situation calls for it.

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Wolfi it's on the to-do list but probably not for a while as we need art assets first. I've done a fair bit of archery myself, so quite looking forward to it as well.

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I would be happy to help with 2D art. If your animations are 2D sprite sheets, that's actually one of my current specialties. Just need the character sheets, and I'll match the weapon animation to it.

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While I'm sure they appreciate the offer, I can say almost-certainly they won't use anyone else's art. They're very specific about that.

...would still be nice to have the option to create sprites. Pretty sure I saw this in the old builds.

 

I'm sure it is possible to someone who knows what they're doing, like maybe the guys who did the HAM radio mod, but it isn't easily done like changing skin textures or weapon properties.

 

shameless plugs

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