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Well that was unpleasant.


Tomwa

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I walked to the grocery store near my apartment and upon exiting was approached by a large man in a van, he asked for money I said I didn't have any and proceeded to start walking home.

 

He followed.

 

He continued to do so repeatedly pitching me his story about how he needs money until I have him $5 and he FINALLY left me alone. I don't think my female roommate would appreciate it if I brought him home.

 

You've gone and done it now...

 

He's probably away telling all his creepy buds about this generous chap giving away money, as long as you pester him and follow with the odd leer now and again. Easy money lads!

 

Next thing you'll know... He's outside your house the next day with a dozen or so other creeps. Watching. Waiting.

 

Night hits - And then comes the constant moaning, "Please sir, can we have sum morrrr?" "Moneeeeeey.... We Wants Moneeeeeey..." all through the night, moaning forevermore.

 

Enjoy.

 

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Should have firmly said "No" kept walking and ignore everything he said. If the chump continues to follow you for more than 15 seconds you tell him to "better stop following me or I'll have your ass in a police cruiser for stalking and harrasment".

Just be blunt with these people, any form of kindness is just encouraging their shitty behaviors.

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Squish. Knife to the eye. That's how it really goes down.

Living in a tourist trap of a city where I deal with homeless people literally everyday, no it isn't. Homeless people arnt all crazy murders you know.

I like to assume they could be if they are following me in a non-jaunty fashion. Especially if they are big and have a van.
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I like to assume they could be if they are following me in a non-jaunty fashion. Especially if they are big and have a van.

Then what's to stop this stalkery fellow from jumping out of the van and stab the hell out of you as you fumble around for some change to give? There's no guarantee with any of this and I'd rather be on the defensive then submissive.

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Should have firmly said "No" kept walking and ignore everything he said. If the chump continues to follow you for more than 15 seconds you tell him to "better stop following me or I'll have your ass in a police cruiser for stalking and harrasment".

Just be blunt with these people, any form of kindness is just encouraging their shitty behaviors.

Seem to be missing the "possibly not logical human entities" aspect of this conversation . . .

I've only meant one person like this in my life. It's not like it's a regular occurrence of homeless (but guess what, they don't have to be homeless! Shocking, I know) people begging for money.

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I meet people like this on a regular basis and have even had to stand up to defend others because they think that they will be left alone after passively yielding. Nasko is right that change is not worth a life, and that is exactly why the threat of prison and/or violence against such a person works in the vast majority of cases. Because they will desist and attempt to find an easy target that will just roll over and give the money up.

 

Also again there is the absolutely statistically insignificant chance that the person will be insane and willing to harm you for it, but in that case they are deranged and it would be better for society as a whole anyway if a capable and youthful man stood up or fought the fight instead of perhaps a vulnerable older person or fate-forbid a child or young woman. Chivalry is not always easy nor is it clean, usually it is a messy pain in the ass.

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Viceroy, I lived in a group home and was regularly around that sort of crowd before. I've only meant one person that seemed inclined to stalk someone through a suburban area, however.

 

That detraction from normal behavior is a pretty big alarm bell that they may well not be rational.

I'm not risking my ass in any way over a small amount of money. If you want to, that's your prerogative, but you'll have to work quite a bit harder to convince me that it was somehow wrong that I didn't attempt to  escalate an uncomfortable situation into a violent one over $2.

 

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That happened to us recently although it wasn't really bad, just awkward and pretty uncomfortable. A non-English woman came up to us (in front of her daughter who was probably 7(?)) and asked for "change" or something I can't fully remember.

 

It was also for 2 Euros (although I'm sure she just wanted some random money) because as soon as we gave her two 1 Euros in exchange for the two Euro coin she looked pretty dumbfounded and asked for more... Luckily there was a worked nearby whom we asked and he was able to stop her pestering us because he looked "official".

 

Now, maybe she wanted two 1 Euro coins in exchange but the language barrier was awkward. 

Thankfully (yet) I haven't been into any violent situations over money. Don't really know what I'd do if I was threatened and had no money on me.., I guess I'm agile enough to get away since I free run sometimes but in the heat of the moment.... 

 

I wouldn't pretend that I'd get out a gun (which I don't have) or knife to stab them just over money. :P Home invasion would be different though to be honest. 

 

TL;DR I haven't been in this situation much and wouldn't try to worsen it with violence.

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People can be strange. I usually take the cautious approach when it comes to dealing with peculiar situations like that. Try and assess who I'm dealing with before I decide on what I'm going to do. I'm never submissive and I usually -at a fault- don't hand money out in these situations, regardless of how insignificant, due to principle. Foolish I know, but I can look after myself and I wouldn't advise my principle on others.

 

Worse thing anyone can do is make the first response a threat. Someone coming up to you asking for change and you telling them to fuck off is not going to lead anywhere pretty. If you politely told them no, and they persist rudely to the point that it escalates were they are actually following you; challenging them isn't the wise option. Let them follow you, to the police station if need be, or make a phone call to the police if the following persists for a few blocks. Their all better options than turning around and issuing a challenge for them to stop following you which for better or worse, can take an entirely different path.

 

That's not being submissive either, it's just using your smarts. Avoiding direct confrontation is usually the better way. But I would, at a fault, exhaust all my options before I hand out money to them because it only ends up condoning their tactic and it won't be long till they'll be using it on some other poor sod.

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That happened to us recently although it wasn't really bad, just awkward and pretty uncomfortable. A non-English woman came up to us (in front of her daughter who was probably 7(?)) and asked for "change" or something I can't fully remember.

 

It was also for 2 Euros (although I'm sure she just wanted some random money) because as soon as we gave her two 1 Euros in exchange for the two Euro coin she looked pretty dumbfounded and asked for more... Luckily there was a worked nearby whom we asked and he was able to stop her pestering us because he looked "official".

 

Now, maybe she wanted two 1 Euro coins in exchange but the language barrier was awkward. 

Thankfully (yet) I haven't been into any violent situations over money. Don't really know what I'd do if I was threatened and had no money on me.., I guess I'm agile enough to get away since I free run sometimes but in the heat of the moment.... 

 

Get a lot of that in Dublin from Romanian beggars. Not as prominent now as they used to be a few years ago, but you still get the odd one. They have no qualms fighting you if they think they can get some change out of ya.

 

Few years ago I got into a messy situation coming out of a shop. I had change in my hand that I was counting for the bus, and had this Romanian gypsy come up to me selling the Big Issue. I told her I wasn't interested and as I turned the b**ch swooped in and tried to take change from my hand. I slapped her hand away and she got (naturally) very aggressive with me. She did a leggar though when the Garda showed up, but she was spitting and trying to bluff her way through with false threats.

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Plenty of homeless people in Austin and I often hand out money to them when I'm in my car. A few dollars but mostly some change. I remember once in New Orleans, I was drunk, and some guy kept following me and pestering me for money. I explained to him I didn't have any, in a calm and reasoned tone, I acted normal; though I felt somewhat wary since he was following me. I told him I just had a card, he asked me to go with him to an ATM and take out cash. I just laughed, nicely though, and said, "Nah, sorry man, too much hassle. Have a good one."

 

He eventually left me alone and I was fine.

 

The other is always scary to people. Differences make us afraid and , more often than not, just treating people like humans is more of a solution than matching crazy with crazy. Violence is last ditch resort. Violence is a crazy thing, growing up I defended myself quite aptly with fists, but I found out that problems arise from violence that don't have anything to do with getting hurt. Hurting other people is a form of self-harm and after I turned eighteen I learned to solve many dilemmas with my words. It's also much more gratifying.

 

Once, at a party in college, one of my friends bumped into this guy who started flipping out. They were leaving the apartment and we were entering it. A huge muscle bound dude. I got between them and told the guy to chill out, that the bump was on accident. He proceeded to brandish a pair of brass knuckles to which I responded with derision. I was like, " are you seriously brandishing a lethal weapon to an unarmed stranger because he told you to calm down? What kind of coward are you?" This made him even angrier but instead of taking a swing, he flung his brass knuckles to the asphalt and challenged me to a fight again. I laughed then, turned around and walked away, telling him, "I don't go around fighting people for the fun of it, sorry." It was brilliant because it was so dark that he couldn't find the brass knuckles due it being 1 am and wasn't able to find them after he threw them on the ground. This was probably the most potentially dangerous situation I diffused with words, but there have been many. Firearms and knives are a cowards weapon and they just escalate the situation. Much better to do as Nasko and Engima are saying, better to not risk your life for money, better not end your own life and potentially ruin someone's life because of material goods. Desperate people can change and it's borderline sociopath behavior to suggest anyone that steals, robs, or whatever, deserves death. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

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This isn't about money, it's dignity.

There's nothing dignified about violence.

There's a lot of soldiers throughout history who would disagree. You can tell me that violence is hell, that it's unpleasant, and that it's terrible. But don't tell me that violence is undignified.

Fighting for what you believe in is a key facet of dignity, and it's much less dignified to not. Dignity is not related to right or wrong; don't get this term confused.

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This isn't about money, it's dignity.

There's nothing dignified about violence.

There's a lot of soldiers throughout history who would disagree. You can tell me that violence is hell, that it's unpleasant, and that it's terrible. But don't tell me that violence is undignified.

Fighting for what you believe in is a key facet of dignity, and it's much less dignified to not. Dignity is not related to right or wrong; don't get this term confused.

 

 

I'd also like to add a  few more points to the discussion.

 

1. I'd like to point out the satisfaction that one gets when one plants some tossrag on his arse.

2. Also this thread started with an instance of aggressive begging. This is wrong. I believe that the victim was entirely justified in telling the beggar to go away and, failing that, to give him/her a serious shove as a warning. Aggressive begging is about 2 steps away from the more serious version of armed robbery and mugging.

3. People say that change isn't worth dying or getting stabbed over. It totally is if its your change. It shouldn't matter if its 10p or £10 billion. Its your bloody money that this scab is trying to take.

 

 

The problem is is that most people are nice and don't like to be involved in awkward or intimidating situations but unless people have the balls to poke a finger into someones chest and call him a cheap panhandling s.o.b then these scumbags arent going to go away.

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Let me just diplomatically interject here and say that I do agree with what both Keepbro and Rathlord said above me, however statistically looking at humanity it is very clear that not everyone is as we are, you do find a significant percentage of any given population group that would rather avoid conflict, although certainly in many situations indeed this is the better of options otherwise this behaviour pattern would not be as prevalent as it is; thus it eliminates any real possibility of any particular side being 'correct' as it were. Different people oft have different approaches, drives, mentalities, priorities, and so too solutions.

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I know plenty of soldiers who would agree with me. So moot point. Also, a lot of soldiers have done terrible things and violence tends to bring the worse out in people, just like war. This idea that you can't stand up for yourself without being violent is both sick and balantly untrue.

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Can't say I'd see any reason to be prideful of shoving someone just because they're acting weird and making petty request, even if it is in a threatening manner.

Again, it's not like this was a regular thing. The guy got his $2 and, over the 7 years I lived there, he was never seen again. :D

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