An Issue of Relations

[gabrek]

I've been kicking this around in my head for a few days, and searching isn't bringing up anything pertinent, so here goes.

 

This addresses two things- one, the concept of "super" zombies, which the staff is strongly against but has been suggested time and time again, and the second is the complete sense of disconnection I experience when playing.

There are no "relationships" between the PC and the endless hordes of the dead that occupy the city, which I find unrealistic. Do you live in Muldraugh? Did you work there your entire life, a community leader, an outcast, were you dropped in by helicopter or did you somehow "spawn in" like a video game, sent by a twisted and unloving god?
If you've EVER been there before, you know some people. Your barber, your banker, the girl at the In-and-Out who gives you extra ketchup. The boy you dated in high school, your first kiss, your ex-wife, if you've been there long enough.

 

I propose you "meet" these people again. And that they are the "supers"- not in terms of any statistical change on their part, but in your relationship with them. Zombies that you suffer extreme levels of panic when seeing, depression, anxiety- and possibly even buffs, if it's that jerk who Redtubed you when you didn't pay his water bill. It's temporary, completely scalable, would affect individuals so the rest of the group could still function normally and even save you from them. Density vs. affects is obvious; there could be many acquaintances you find about town that have a relatively minor effect, a few rivals you can kill with relish, a handful of family members, and maybe that one zombie you just can't seem to kill no matter how hard you try because they used to be your wife. In game marking would be simple; a white heart, a black one, pink and red, based on relationship.

The sandbox option for this one would be pretty obvious- range from "John Doe" to "Local Casanova"

[gabrek]

I should clarify: You're in a group with Bob and Mary. They're both tough guys, you've been alive for weeks, but a zed wanders up and Bob stops, drops his bat and goes completely blank. The Z gets closer and closer, you move to put yourself between her and your group while Mary tries to break Bob of his catatonia.. and just before you sink your machete into what's just another Zed you hear him whisper.. "That's my wife.."

 

Every zombie apocalypse story has this element. It's completely realistic, I doubt very much it'd be game breaking in any way, and it is a deeply established concept in zombie lore. I know the stickies, just.. thinking.

[Krisu356]

That would be nice, PC would be actually in danger of getting depressed, because, really, unless you just stand in one place and play like eat->sleep->Wait you have no chance of your character getting depressed.

[deprav]

Do you live in Muldraugh? Did you work there your entire life, a community leader, an outcast, were you dropped in by helicopter or did you somehow "spawn in" like a video game, sent by a twisted and unloving god?

 

Considering the game doesn't start at day 0 there's another solution : you've just arrived to Muldraugh/West point. You were travelling and decided to take a few days of vacation there.

The probability to meet someone you knew as a zombie is very thin if you weren't with him/her when he/she turned.

Tho that could be a cool feature/trait, being severly depressed and scared when you have to kill a friend of your survivor group who turned into a Z.

What makes zombies scary isn't their past humanity, it's precisely their lack of humanity. The shapeless mass of walking corpses, the fear to be alone, to be (one of) the last conscious people in a sea of deads.

[gabrek]

That's exactly why I think there needs to be a reminder OF that humanity. It's the difference between survival and survival horror. I used to just be completely blank playing PZ; in it's early iterations it was a good game and fun to play, but it wasn't immersive. When they replaced the bald greenies with zombies that looked like your PC, it changed the entire game for me; made me feel like I was fighting turned humans instead of aliens or generic bald Nazis or whatever. Now, killing a pack, I'll find one carrying a locket, or their lipstick, or a school bag, and it actually makes me think. Gives me pause (and this killed a 3 week survivor once, I really should have been paying attention.)

I feel more connection with the former residents should be made, past bashing their skulls in. Homes should have family portraits on the walls. Beds should have waste bins beside them from when the people suffering the nausea of the last stages of infection laid in bed, praying to just stop being sick. And every once in a while, you should run into a zombie that's hard to kill, just to establish that you're more than a survivor, more than a hunter in a sea of endless predators- that you're still a little bit human yourself.

[deprav]

I'm all for the immersive details, photos on the walls, signs of sickness in homes etc... that would add a real value to the immersion for sure. But I don't think the "I know that zombie" mechanics would be worth the trouble : to make it realistic it might happen 2 or 3 times to your character in its entire survival life, for a very minimal gameplay impact.

Also, consider the actual zombies are still "new". Someday they won't all be wearing vest and pants ;o the diversity between them will help the immersion imo : a lot more clothes, hospital staff zombies, cop zombies, military zombies, town employee zombies, thug zombies, clown zombies, business man zombies, young punk zombies etc...

 

For now they focus on the core of the game and good mechanics, I think work on immersion and details will come later !

[Feranoks]

Don't you most of this would be implemented when they add different stories into the game? Wich is something they are planning to do by the way. Keeping in mind that the game is pretty early in development making core mechanics of how to survive more important right now in my opinion.

[Wolfen]

I'm all for the immersive details, photos on the walls, signs of sickness in homes etc... that would add a real value to the immersion for sure. But I don't think the "I know that zombie" mechanics would be worth the trouble : to make it realistic it might happen 2 or 3 times to your character in its entire survival life, for a very minimal gameplay impact.

Also, consider the actual zombies are still "new". Someday they won't all be wearing vest and pants ;o the diversity between them will help the immersion imo : a lot more clothes, hospital staff zombies, cop zombies, military zombies, town employee zombies, thug zombies, clown zombies, business man zombies, young punk zombies etc...

 

For now they focus on the core of the game and good mechanics, I think work on immersion and details will come later !

 

 

Well PZ is already planning to add family members in the game.

You'll have an opinion modifier for them.

 

Like when you start the game you'll specify you have a brother or something and an NPC will be created somewhere on the map.

Read that somewhere on PZ

[gabrek]

Guess I'm thinking too far ahead for this stage of development. I still think it'd be a viable, and meaningful, approach to both lost family and the ever nagging "super" requests.

[Nobody]

This is an excellent idea. Don't let this idea die gabrek, because this seems to me like the kind of thing that could be implemented into the game eventually.

[Shivster]

I love the idea!

 

It would be very cool to run into someone you know and have a hard time killing them or just be unable to do so. I think this kind of stuff will be added in Story mode When they re release it. For survival i don't think they will put this kind of stuff in but for story mode i could see a modder doing this and would love to play that Story. Like you find you mom freshly turned coming at you and just be unable to bring your self to kill her even knowing she is gone. It

[deprav]

 

I'm all for the immersive details, photos on the walls, signs of sickness in homes etc... that would add a real value to the immersion for sure. But I don't think the "I know that zombie" mechanics would be worth the trouble : to make it realistic it might happen 2 or 3 times to your character in its entire survival life, for a very minimal gameplay impact.

Also, consider the actual zombies are still "new". Someday they won't all be wearing vest and pants ;o the diversity between them will help the immersion imo : a lot more clothes, hospital staff zombies, cop zombies, military zombies, town employee zombies, thug zombies, clown zombies, business man zombies, young punk zombies etc...

 

For now they focus on the core of the game and good mechanics, I think work on immersion and details will come later !

 

 

Well PZ is already planning to add family members in the game.

You'll have an opinion modifier for them.

 

Like when you start the game you'll specify you have a brother or something and an NPC will be created somewhere on the map.

Read that somewhere on PZ

 

Oh ! I didn't remember that one.

Well yeah the OP's idea would make sense with that precise feature imo.

[mikaelkerensky]

With this topic (once again i hate bringing up walking dead) i remember the scene in which the wife of the man who shelter rick, turning the doorknob. And the anguish he felt when he shot her to let rick escape. Even if it happens only two or three times in the course of the game it would intensify immersion to such an extent it's effective even though it's relatively small. Would you shoot your wife, your daughter, your best friend? Zombie or not it will hit you hard.

[EnigmaGrey]

With this topic (once again i hate bringing up walking dead) i remember the scene in which the wife of the man who shelter rick, turning the doorknob. And the anguish he felt when he shot her to let rick escape. Even if it happens only two or three times in the course of the game it would intensify immersion to such an extent it's effective even though it's relatively small. Would you shoot your wife, your daughter, your best friend? Zombie or not it will hit you hard.

Well, here's the kicker, with the current  visuals, how do you depict this? Floating text above the head "Oh my god, that's my wife! I can't . . . " while the player of the character spam-clicks it's inevitable demise? Or a moodle?

I could see this working in scripted events if they're expected to happen and they require interaction from the beginning, but not in  the current iteration of the game. It relies heavily on the character taking the initiative and making the interaction believable, rather than the player knowing instinctively that this zombie was a loved one.

[Wilson SDS]

I should clarify: You're in a group with Bob and Mary. They're both tough guys, you've been alive for weeks, but a zed wanders up and Bob stops, drops his bat and goes completely blank. The Z gets closer and closer, you move to put yourself between her and your group while Mary tries to break Bob of his catatonia.. and just before you sink your machete into what's just another Zed you hear him whisper.. "That's my wife.."

 

Every zombie apocalypse story has this element. It's completely realistic, I doubt very much it'd be game breaking in any way, and it is a deeply established concept in zombie lore. I know the stickies, just.. thinking.

 

 

Great idea, i have suggested something alike here, and everyone just denied the one of the suggestions (using weapons) and the other ideas on the thread were somehow forgotten.

 

 

Long history short:

How about a zombie having a chance of 1 in 1000 to find someone with a strong attachment, and this when you encounter this exactly zombie pop one emotional pink circle like the other emotions, and until that emotion goes off you cant attack it. And after killing it you get depressed. 

[mikaelkerensky]

With this topic (once again i hate bringing up walking dead) i remember the scene in which the wife of the man who shelter rick, turning the doorknob. And the anguish he felt when he shot her to let rick escape. Even if it happens only two or three times in the course of the game it would intensify immersion to such an extent it's effective even though it's relatively small. Would you shoot your wife, your daughter, your best friend? Zombie or not it will hit you hard.

Well, here's the kicker, with the current visuals, how do you depict this? Floating text above the head "Oh my god, that's my wife! I can't . . . " while the player of the character spam-clicks it's inevitable demise? Or a moodle?

I could see this working in scripted events if they're expected to happen and they require interaction from the beginning, but not in the current iteration of the game. It relies heavily on the character taking the initiative and making the interaction believable, rather than the player knowing instinctively that this zombie was a loved one.

I'm thinking along the lines of a moodle. Maybe a long term minor negative and a short term major negative.

[Wolfen]

 

With this topic (once again i hate bringing up walking dead) i remember the scene in which the wife of the man who shelter rick, turning the doorknob. And the anguish he felt when he shot her to let rick escape. Even if it happens only two or three times in the course of the game it would intensify immersion to such an extent it's effective even though it's relatively small. Would you shoot your wife, your daughter, your best friend? Zombie or not it will hit you hard.

Well, here's the kicker, with the current  visuals, how do you depict this? Floating text above the head "Oh my god, that's my wife! I can't . . . " while the player of the character spam-clicks it's inevitable demise? Or a moodle?

I could see this working in scripted events if they're expected to happen and they require interaction from the beginning, but not in  the current iteration of the game. It relies heavily on the character taking the initiative and making the interaction believable, rather than the player knowing instinctively that this zombie was a loved one.

 

 

Yeah, that can be done.

In the script you meet someone you loved one who became a zombie.

Condition is in the metagame someone who is related to you died somewhere on the map.

From what I understand of the script AI director this shouldn't be a problem.

[Nobody]

What if once you killed those special zombies, the people you used to know, you got to loot their driver's licence or something like that, and could check the info and reminesce about them so the person playing the game could understand their background and why they emoted like that. Once you killed them you could figure out more about your relationship to them before the shit hit the fan.

[gabrek]

What if once you killed those special zombies, the people you used to know, you got to loot their driver's licence or something like that, and could check the info and reminesce about them so the person playing the game could understand their background and why they emoted like that. Once you killed them you could figure out more about your relationship to them before the shit hit the fan.

  Oh damn, that I like. I didn't even think about sentimental objects and your character being able to reflect upon it. Perhaps make it somewhat like a skill book; you stay still, thinking long hours whenever survival gives you the chance; your character could say (similar to the skill books, griping about easy or hard books) something .. anything, even if it's largely random, "I remember the tire swing.." or the like.

With the current graphics, perhaps a colored icon reflecting the severity of the relationship, or even just a MP like tag "My wife" or "A distant friend". Moodles, I was mainly thinking about jamming the current pedal to the floor; adding in new ones seems redundant. Maxing panic, or adding a to-hit or damage penalty to depression or stress; if a new one were added I think it should be along the lines of actual broken sanity.

 

Shaken Line

Shaken - Someone's stepped on your grave. (swing rate penalty, aim penalty, minor)

Heart Broken - Having lost everything has really put you off. (extreme swing penalty, extreme aim penalty)

Traumatized - There is no hope! Why are you even trying anymore?! (can aim, but cannot attack; movement speed reduced)

Catatonic - Abandon all hope, ye who enter here... (cannot aim. movement speed significantly reduced)

 

Which shouldn't only be caused by turned acquaintances, but by experiencing traumatic or violent events when already highly stressed or depressed. Panic should influence stress and depression levels. A catatonic state would be extreme and last several hours at most; traumatized a day or two, heart broken a few days.. shaken could be a long term effect. Possibly have it be a one time thing; once you've gone catatonic (or traumatized) once, you gain immunity, or possibly get into "positive" buffs which would make you marginally more combat effective under stress/depression.

 

I was a soldier for 4 years. In Iraq, 2004, when things were still just.. fucking ugly over there. Things changed after a certain mass cal. Ended up spending a few days with the combat stress team and came pretty freakin' close to biting it while I was there due to mortars. Just stopped caring, you know? Took up smoking in a big way, stopped calling my wife. Shot center mass. This was 10 years ago, two failed marriages and I'm still not who I was when I enlisted. Part of me is still there.

 

Admittedly, I'm just kind of talking off the top of my head here, trying to relate real life emotional devastation and PTSD into video game stats. 

[Nobody]

 

What if once you killed those special zombies, the people you used to know, you got to loot their driver's licence or something like that, and could check the info and reminesce about them so the person playing the game could understand their background and why they emoted like that. Once you killed them you could figure out more about your relationship to them before the shit hit the fan.

  Oh damn, that I like. I didn't even think about sentimental objects and your character being able to reflect upon it. Perhaps make it somewhat like a skill book; you stay still, thinking long hours whenever survival gives you the chance; your character could say (similar to the skill books, griping about easy or hard books) something .. anything, even if it's largely random, "I remember the tire swing.." or the like.

With the current graphics, perhaps a colored icon reflecting the severity of the relationship, or even just a MP like tag "My wife" or "A distant friend". Moodles, I was mainly thinking about jamming the current pedal to the floor; adding in new ones seems redundant. Maxing panic, or adding a to-hit or damage penalty to depression or stress; if a new one were added I think it should be along the lines of actual broken sanity.

 

Shaken Line

Shaken - Someone's stepped on your grave. (swing rate penalty, aim penalty, minor)

Heart Broken - Having lost everything has really put you off. (extreme swing penalty, extreme aim penalty)

Traumatized - There is no hope! Why are you even trying anymore?! (can aim, but cannot attack; movement speed reduced)

Catatonic - Abandon all hope, ye who enter here... (cannot aim. movement speed significantly reduced)

 

Which shouldn't only be caused by turned acquaintances, but by experiencing traumatic or violent events when already highly stressed or depressed. Panic should influence stress and depression levels. A catatonic state would be extreme and last several hours at most; traumatized a day or two, heart broken a few days.. shaken could be a long term effect. Possibly have it be a one time thing; once you've gone catatonic (or traumatized) once, you gain immunity, or possibly get into "positive" buffs which would make you marginally more combat effective under stress/depression.

 

I was a soldier for 4 years. In Iraq, 2004, when things were still just.. fucking ugly over there. Things changed after a certain mass cal. Ended up spending a few days with the combat stress team and came pretty freakin' close to biting it while I was there due to mortars. Just stopped caring, you know? Took up smoking in a big way, stopped calling my wife. Shot center mass. This was 10 years ago, two failed marriages and I'm still not who I was when I enlisted. Part of me is still there.

 

Admittedly, I'm just kind of talking off the top of my head here, trying to relate real life emotional devastation and PTSD into video game stats. 

 

I think when it comes from the heart, like it has from you, it makes it that much more powerful. I think you should keep up this idea and see about getting the attention of the developers, because I really think it's a good one

 

Another thing I just thought of: burying the dead, especially the loved ones. I know they're already implementing moving the zombies, but burying loved ones, maybe making some kind of make-shift tombstone, would make it that much more real. And maybe you can sit/stand near the tombstone and reflect, and it gives you some kind of stat bonus, like it calms you down or something, maybe braces you for the horrors that are still shambling around, or some other kind of stat.