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Stealth Kills


dra6o0n

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In any zombie situations, it's not like you can't sneak up on zombies and slit their spines from the back with a knife, or hack at the head with a sharp weapon.

 

So why not tweaking the detection of zombies so they are less likely to detect behind them at a low chance of hearing whoever walks behind them?

 

At the moment, zombies are like the 'end all, should be avoided' foes that players like them to represent...

But all I see are dumb corpses that just outpace a regular human... If the human was stupid that is.

 

1 Kitchen knife to the spine is all you need to kill a zombie, the neck may have a bone, but it only guards mainly the frontal side of the body, and the spinal cord is on the backside, covered by muscles and tissues. A nicely sharpened kitchen knife can cut through the spine with no issue.

 

The resulting slice, even if it doesn't cut the nerve endings, will severely damage the spine and due to you cutting the muscles to get to it, will collapse the head on it's spine and kill the zombie anyways or at least disable it from functioning.

 

So a 'backstab' mechanic would be useful and can be used to critically kill a zombie in one strike, but less effective with smaller trash weapons like forks and butterknives.

 

Heck, simply stabbing at the back of the neck with a kitchen knive will severely damage the spine, then yanking the knife out would tear the flesh along the blade.

 

spinal_cord.jpg

The red area would most likely be inside the skull, so the neck would be the purple area.

EDIT: The bones of the spinal cord is there, and it's a tube, but since the spine is flexible, it means the a human has 31 'separate' bones with a tube in the middle, meaning it's possible to get a kitchen knife to stab between one. But the back of the neck is the weakest point as there can be no bones there.

 

h9991532_001.jpg

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how unlikely should it be them detecting you?

 

sandbox might be the game mode for you then:

lower senses, but maximize them in numbers. boom, done. 

 

when I started I lowered the senses to minimun just to get a feel for the game and mechanics.

could basically sneak right next to them and they wouldn´t notice. 

 

one swing with an axe or nailed bat will kill them already like it is now, especially when your skill is high enough. 

so whats the need for a "killing-blow when sneaking" ? 

 

i mean how many sneaking assassins that know about the human spine abd vulnerable area are there in rural kentucky right now ? 

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I'll just mention that PZ is based on a book called "Zombie Survival Guide" in which author explains that zombies are using their all senses instead of human-like sight dependance. Thats why nights in PZ are so dangerous: they might not see you, but they still hear you, and they hear pretty well.

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I read that book, a zombie is basically a dead body but the brain still functions with one motive, eating people. It's an independent brain though, needs no glucose or O2 it just eats till it explodes! But breaking the spine is useless, independent brain! Remember? Breaking a zed's arm does nothing. Stab, Shoot, Jab, cut or crush the brain.

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The brain needs the nervous system to communicate with the body. While the support system for that brain has been disregarded in zombie lore, the spinal cord has remained sacred; disconnect the brain from the legs, and you've got a low crawler. Disconnect it from the torso, you've got a silent, stationary snapper. Disconnect the brain stem, you've got eye movement and a slack jaw.

 

I completely agree on the stealth kills- not necessarily a damage bonus though, just an accuracy bonus, but the relative silence is a must. Currently any Zed can hear a weapon swing, including ones you're hitting, and they turn/flock before the hit connects. Leave in the sound for the hit, but take out the sound of a point blank, undetected weapon swing.

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I agree the breaking of the spine at the base of the skull would render a zombie immobile. It would still be able to bite and see that is all. But a kitten knife is not a good weapon to do this attack with as they bend. The upcoming combat knife, or a Axe would do the trick. If the kitten knife hit the bone most likely it would glance off and just cut the flesh.Remember the space between the average human vertebrae is only about the with of a blade and would be a very hard shot to make without a immobilized victim.

 

All that said i have no issue with that attack as its usefulness will be very limited. Its not like you will be able to take a horde out with it. The second that zombie hits the ground you will draw attention as all zombies in a horde face different directions.

 

LOL i just noticed i used kitten knife damn you old forums!!

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Triangle choke to immobilize the head, stab towards yourself through the eye socket. Screwdriver, kitchen knife, a quality Ticonderoga wood pencil, whatever- brain's hit, less than 3 seconds if you do it right.

Granted, it'd take some pretty decent skill to pull this off... blade skill would be easier since it already exists, but with the unarmed attack being introduced, a Hand to Hand skill really should be added for stomping damage, shoving effectiveness, helping break holds Zed have against you, the like.

Would actually be a somewhat logical combat skill to have a book for- lots of people take interest in some form of self defense.

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I think the sneak attack is useful even now and I have no problems sneaking up to zombies in survival. One hit behind - zombie gets killed or atleast trips and it's a easy to kill them on the ground. I personally think that there is no need of some sort of sneak attack.

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Triangle choke to immobilize the head, stab towards yourself through the eye socket. Screwdriver, kitchen knife, a quality Ticonderoga wood pencil, whatever- brain's hit, less than 3 seconds if you do it right.

Granted, it'd take some pretty decent skill to pull this off... blade skill would be easier since it already exists, but with the unarmed attack being introduced, a Hand to Hand skill really should be added for stomping damage, shoving effectiveness, helping break holds Zed have against you, the like.

Would actually be a somewhat logical combat skill to have a book for- lots of people take interest in some form of self defense.

The triangle choke would be a really, really bad idea. You're wrapping your hands right around under the mouth- one tiny mistake and you're bitten. You'd be naturally selected out in a heartbeat if you tried this.

Further, While an unarmed skill may well be calle for, I don't agree with the skill books. As someone with a fair amount of experience in several martial arts, I would say that the VAST majority of techniques wouldn't transfer well to zombies. Most martial arts focus on grapples and throws, neither of which would be very effective on zeds. Further yet, those that focus on strikes focus on causing debilitating pain- which once again would be ineffectual on zombies.

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Rath,

I must respectfully disagree with you. Properly secured under the jaw, a firm grip is extremely difficult to break, and I'll speak to this experience from having applied it to targets ranging from religiously fanatic enemy insurgents to drunk civilians. Of note with that- drunks don't even begin to know how to break free, so how in the world would a rather mentally challenged zombie?

"Pressure points" and pain are meaningless to the dead- however, they're still restricted by musculature and their own skeleton. A major focus of LINES was to break bones at the joints, and many of those techniques are based on outstretched limbs- again, like a zombie. A Zed with a dislocated shoulder or broken elbow would still be coming after you, but with one less limb at it's disposal; break both and it's ability to scratch you (much less hold you back) is through the window and it's much harder to break down a door with your face than with both arms. 

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Rath,

I must respectfully disagree with you. Properly secured under the jaw, a firm grip is extremely difficult to break, and I'll speak to this experience from having applied it to targets ranging from religiously fanatic enemy insurgents to drunk civilians. Of note with that- drunks don't even begin to know how to break free, so how in the world would a rather mentally challenged zombie?

 

I'm not saying they could get out, I'm saying the original grab. Zombies may not be as intelligent and spry as the living, but I've had years of experience (mainly Judo with a splash of Tae Kwon Do and T'ai Chi on the side) and for every grab that I get perfectly, a handful go wrong. All it takes is one bite while you're securing your grip to end it. Do you really think you could nail that 100% of the time? If so, much respect because you're a much better fighter than I.

 

 

"Pressure points" and pain are meaningless to the dead- however, they're still restricted by musculature and their own skeleton. A major focus of LINES was to break bones at the joints, and many of those techniques are based on outstretched limbs- again, like a zombie. A Zed with a dislocated shoulder or broken elbow would still be coming after you, but with one less limb at it's disposal; break both and it's ability to scratch you (much less hold you back) is through the window and it's much harder to break down a door with your face than with both arms. 

 

Knees aside, most bone strikes require at least some form of grapple- even the elbow requires at least another hand bracing it. Further, martials arts doesn't teach defense from biting in anything but a cursory sense. Assuming it's moving its head fairly quickly, some grapples (and yes, even those that would take out a joint) would actually make it much easier for the zombie to nab a quick bite from your arm.

 

Think about your average wrist or elbow break- you're practically sticking your arm in front of their face to do it. This is fine as in most martial arts biting is against the rules (if for contests) or rather ineffectual (in actual fights) so it's not a big deal. The only one I might try would be a behind the back shoulder break.

 

Even then, though, I'm not really sure I'd try it- why not just spend that time actually killing the zombie instead of dicking around with joint attacks? If you have no way to kill it, run. If you can kill it, do it. Simple as that.

 

Personally, I'd also be rather worried about breaking a bone and having it splinter through the skin and cut me. Obviously careful positioning of the hands could negate that, but this still just seems like a vastly sub-optimal method of survival.

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@Rath

 

Im drunk so i might confuse You with some other member of support or moderator team. Im not joking now or trying to offend You in any way but :

 

You know a hell lot of about knives, using them to harm another person, martial arts and that kind of stuff. Special forces or something friend? (I point out im not trying to offend You in any way i repeat).

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Among other things, military family. My grandfather was in the Secret Service, my father in the Air Force. My life hasn't exactly been a cakewalk, either, so I've had more experience with this kinda thing than I tend to enjoy, but suffice to say I've been using weapons since I was old enough to handle them responsibly.

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Have to agree with Rath, having done Atemi Jitsu for quite some time.

 

If you want to use any kind of martial arts against a zombie I think something like Kick Boxing or Krav Maga (still uses lots of grapples) might be the most usefull since they keep you at a distance. However most do indeed focus on either getting up close and grabbing or getting your opponent on the ground or at a disadvantage. Getting up close usually benefits allot from the element of suprise wich is useless agianst a Zombie. Grabbing is pretty much putting you in more danger then anything else and breaking limbs is not as easy as it sounds definitley not without hurting yourself in the process.

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