Tripping and falling..

[Kajin]

As I said before, I wouldn't mind seeing players trip if it doesn't take control away from movement. You see a zombie, turn to run and trip? That trip would be translated into forward momentum as you fall. You're not just gonna lie their for a second and attempt to stand straight up, you're gonna be scrambling forward on your hands and knees, still moving forward desperately in an attempt to get away, 

 

There might be a little bit of a speed loss, but you won't be losing control of your character, You're still capable of directing movement and after a few seconds your character is going to get back enough balance to take a standing step as they keep moving forward.

[Rathlord]

The only way I could see falling players is, as said before, if they are walking backwards and step on a stick or something causing them to fall. It'd be the player's fault for not checking their surroundings as well as being careless, and it'd probably be realistic too. However, it absolutely shouldn't happen every time. Not even every other time. It should be really rare so it doesn't become an annoying mechanic as well as still keeping its ability to surprise the player whenever it happens.

 

The more rare you make it, the more of a "fuck you" it becomes when it happens. I think I would prefer Kajin's version if anything.

[Moloch Horridus]

Regardless of arguments for and against player falling because of realism, the real cornerstone of the argument against it is that it's bad game design. For something with permadeath, you should know that when you die it's because you failed- not because RNG made you fall over at a shitty moment. That's the crux of it to me, at least.

Make tripping rare enough so players don't get into dire situations too often, but common enough to make them wary not to moonwalk all the time. I think PZ needs more mechanics that are available but not recommended. This creates atmosphere where player needs to pay attention plus weigh risks and rewards.

 

Guns already are playing with this concept by being loud but effective. I don't know if they can jam, but that would be a very nice addition. We also have burglar alarms, seemingly locked windows that won't budge, ovens that easily burn down your safehouse, bleach we can drink and broken windows that scratch us. Life is a gamble, even more so in zombie apocalypse. Let's play!

 

Its all a matter of balance. If all else fails give user options to turn these more controversial features on or off.

[deprav]

 

I think I see where you're coming from, like it's easy to backwalk > swing > backwalk > swing > etc... and take big groups of Z on your own, and if a chance of falling is added into the equation it might make it risky and make the players think twice before doing it ! (am I right?)

 

Yup, I don't know that I am fully invested in this idea. It's got potential, It'd definitely not break the game to see a zombie or two trip and fall after vaulting a fence, and might add some perception of realism(?) to zombie movement, especially over obstacles. But player falls are a whole different ball game, as loosing control of the character might lead to one's death, and that'd understandably be disappointing.

 

I was just expressing interest in fleshing these ideas out. Thanks all for the help!

 

Ye zombies tripping and shambling would definitely be cool ^^

 

 

As for players tripping & falling, I'll say it again, the only way I see this being implemented properly - without the "randomness" factor being too frustrating - would be via crawlers ! Since they're likely to grab your ankles, trying to get away from it without killing it or making it ungrab, or running too close from one might get your ankle grabbed (and then you fall ;p )

[Bioradical]

 

 

I think I see where you're coming from, like it's easy to backwalk > swing > backwalk > swing > etc... and take big groups of Z on your own, and if a chance of falling is added into the equation it might make it risky and make the players think twice before doing it ! (am I right?)

 

Yup, I don't know that I am fully invested in this idea. It's got potential, It'd definitely not break the game to see a zombie or two trip and fall after vaulting a fence, and might add some perception of realism(?) to zombie movement, especially over obstacles. But player falls are a whole different ball game, as loosing control of the character might lead to one's death, and that'd understandably be disappointing.

 

I was just expressing interest in fleshing these ideas out. Thanks all for the help!

 

Ye zombies tripping and shambling would definitely be cool ^^

 

 

As for players tripping & falling, I'll say it again, the only way I see this being implemented properly - without the "randomness" factor being too frustrating - would be via crawlers ! Since they're likely to grab your ankles, trying to get away from it without killing it or making it ungrab, or running too close from one might get your ankle grabbed (and then you fall ;p )

 

 

Ok, I'm more comfortable with crawlers making you trip than getting easy bites right away.

 

But aside from that, no other mechanic should exist that makes the player trip.

[CanadianWolvie]

I know you are all focused on the topic of a player tripping but I would like to change the subject...

 

...to tripping zombies.

 

How fun would it be to tangle up their legs so you could get away? Quick, toss some crap on the ground, maybe it will slow em down long enough for you to get away! Or just a right click > toss stick.

 

I am definetly in agreement with a zombie tumbling over a fence or through a window, as I am sure you can tell.

 

But how about crafting some a couple sticks, twine and say a couple of empty glass bottles for a trip wire alarm, that they get tangled up and the glass clinks noisely, that we place across a entrance?

 

That would sound like fun and something I would actually do in a hypothetical zombie apocalypse. You know, on top of the snare traps for some food.

 

I don't think bear traps would be all that helpful though but maybe punji sticks would be. But I suppose this is probably covered by a thread about traps, eh?

 

Oh well, traps that trip, think about it ... please.

[cookies1]

 

The only way I could see falling players is, as said before, if they are walking backwards and step on a stick or something causing them to fall. It'd be the player's fault for not checking their surroundings as well as being careless, and it'd probably be realistic too. However, it absolutely shouldn't happen every time. Not even every other time. It should be really rare so it doesn't become an annoying mechanic as well as still keeping its ability to surprise the player whenever it happens.

 

The more rare you make it, the more of a "fuck you" it becomes when it happens. I think I would prefer Kajin's version if anything.

 

Really? I don't see how it would be anymore of a "fuck you" than you getting infected from a scratch/bite. Both are gambles that could have been avoided if you handled the situation properly, and both aren't happening all the time because it would get too hard/annoying if it was. In my version, If you walk backwards and step on something (which of course should be a visible object, random tripping would get way too annoying and luck-based), you'd have a very small chance of tripping simply because your character wasn't ready for it and it made him lose his footing. I mean, it's something you could have easily avoided if you had paid more attention, so it wouldn't really be an unfair game mechanic anymore than zombies' infections are. It also wouldn't be common, which wouldn't make it too hard for the player or something he could expect as well. To have it happen every time you'd step backwards on that stick would probably look silly and not be very realistic since you wouldn't fall all the time in real life (unless you are really clumsy or have really bad luck), and as mentioned earlier, a random tripping-chance on every step would be too luck-based and make you feel like you had no control over the situation when it happens at a really bad moment and you end up dying as a result.

 

That said, This was simply my take on how it could work. It's not something I'd care much about having in the game. It might even be too hard to properly put into the game and not worth the effort. I can however imagine my face if I suddenly tripped over a stick and a horde caught me. I wonder if I would be angry or laugh at it afterwards.

[Rathlord]

Guns already are playing with this concept by being loud but effective. We also have burglar alarms, seemingly locked windows that won't budge, ovens that easily burn down your safehouse, bleach we can drink and broken windows that scratch us. Life is a gamble, even more so in zombie apocalypse. Let's play!

 

All of these things are direct 1:1 consequences of your actions. Fire a gun, it's loud. Break into a building, alarm will go off if it has one. Leave food in too long, it burns. Drink bleach, you die. Break a window with bare hands, get scratched.

 

Walk around, fall over at random.

 

What I'm trying to point out is this discrepancy. Regardless of whether some factors effect it or not, it's still not a direct consequence of your actions- it's random, and it can't be avoided because walking is part of the basic functions of playing. There's no argument around this- it's bad game design, pure and simple. In a permadeath game, as much as possible must be in the player's hands so that when they die, it is inarguably their fault. It is a core concept of designing this kind of game- I can't expect people who aren't game devs (or people like myself who are closely tied up in the process on a day to day basis) to understand that, but I hope you can see the reasoning behind it and at least take my word for it.

Really? I don't see how it would be anymore of a "fuck you" than you getting infected from a scratch/bite. Both are gambles that could have been avoided if you handled the situation properly, and both aren't happening all the time because it would get too hard/annoying if it was. In my version, If you walk backwards and step on something (which of course should be a visible object, random tripping would get way too annoying and luck-based), you'd have a very small chance of tripping simply because your character wasn't ready for it and it made him lose his footing. I mean, it's something you could have easily avoided if you had paid more attention, so it wouldn't really be an unfair game mechanic anymore than zombies' infections are. It also wouldn't be common, which wouldn't make it too hard for the player or something he could expect as well. To have it happen every time you'd step backwards on that stick would probably look silly and not be very realistic since you wouldn't fall all the time in real life (unless you are really clumsy or have really bad luck), and as mentioned earlier, a random tripping-chance on every step would be too luck-based and make you feel like you had no control over the situation when it happens at a really bad moment and you end up dying as a result.

 

Again, you say it wouldn't be common like that's a good thing. But the less predictable you make it, the worse game design it is (for the reasons I've enunciated above). I understand how it sounds good in people's heads, but it would be nothing but obnoxious and frustrating in the game. Again, the argument of realism isn't a viable one here- realism is only acceptable to the point where it crosses the boundary between good and bad game design. This steps over it.

 

Edit: Oh, and backpeddling isn't, and shouldn't be, a gamble. It is a core feature of how you control your character. That would be like making taking things out of a cabinet or breathing dangerous.

[Wilson SDS]

Fences are a cheap way to avoid falling when building in the second floor, maybe in the future to control heard animals.

 

But seeing some zombies falling while crossing it i agree, now about players falling in extreme situations, i think it would be valid an option before starting the game, so you know that the chance exists and you will have to put that in mind in your escape routs strategy.