Plenty ideas and (re)suggestions [combat,sneaking,general,MP...]

[deprav]

Sap guys !

I already made one of these on the old forums, I sadly didn't keep any trace of it. We might have lost some good suggestions/discussions in the process.

Why a massive thread instead of multiple "unique suggestion" threads ? Simply because I don't want to spam threads and make some other interesting ones go down the list ; better have 1 thread I'll update than 15 new threads in which I'll get lost.

I'll try to keep it as clear as possible and use a color code to point the importance of each suggestion (from "Distant future" to "needed ASAP" and "Confirmed"), keep in mind is all subjective.

 

Those are not necessarily "new" ideas, some might be re-interpretations of other ideas or already planned features, pointing to things that are really needed (subjectively), some rebalancing ideas of already implemented features etc... There still are a few new suggestions tho.

 

 

 
[fighting zombies]

 

Spoiler

The actual system is too easy/simple and could use a few simple mechanics to make it harder. It's actually still too easy to wreck a large amount of zombies with a melee weapon, It should be VERY DANGEROUS to fight more than a couple at the same time. A few ideas to rebalance it a bit and make it more consistent :

 

• Combat re-think
  
   http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/10978-combat-re-think-for-the-announced-big-rebalance-oflgbkybygt/
   
• More consistent "zombie grab" and "meatier zombies"
  
  http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/10570-zombies-need-to-be-meatier/
   
• Crawler's grab should have a high chance to make the player fall on the ground.

If the player gets his leg grabbed by a crawler and try to move away from it without breaking it / killing the Z, there's a HIGH chance he will fall on the floor for a short amount of time, making him extremely vulnerable to any other close zombie(s)

Same goes for sprinting next to a crawler, if he grabs you while you sprint -> you fall.

• Certain weapons having a chance to get stuck into zombies' skull

"Bladed" and piercing weapons (axes, crowbars, knives, hammers?, nailed bats etc...) should have a chance to get stuck into skulls, maybe resulting in another fierce mashing of a key to get it unstuck before the next Z gets into the player's danger zone. If it's too dangerous and you can't get it unstuck in time, you'd have to leave it there and run away (and comeback later if you want to get it back)

 

• Weapon skills should have more "incidence"

In its actual state, I'm pretty much never spending any point in any "combat skill tree", the lvl 0 is just way too efficient. If we grab an axe we're just the king of the Z world, 1 hit kill half of the time. The only weapon that makes me feel like a weak level 0 is the golfclub right now.  DONE

 

 
 
 
Being at arms lenght from a zombie is something you really don't want, being at arms lenght from 2 zombies is something that might get you killed. I think those suggestions might force the players to think twice before deciding to fight a group of Z, it will as well require a proper use of distance and timing (plus aiming, as always).
Plus, with the new 3D characters, I think we might have some cool animations with those ;o

 

 

[fighting non-zombies]

 

Spoiler

Well, with the multiplayer on the roll, this is pretty obvious an overhaul is planned, but here are a few ideas. (The 2 first ideas are kind of the same thing but with different mechanics)

• Lethal & Non-Lethal mods (I'll use that idea a lot in the future)

This was my first suggestion on the old forums. In a RPG with moral choices like PZ, we should be able to decide if we want to knock someone out (and make him a hostage or something), just hurt him, or go for the kill. There could be chances that you fail tho... You wanted to keep him alive but that blow behind his head got him killed, or in the opposite, you wanted to kill him but failed to do so and he's now on the run with revenge on his mind.

It should work as well for firearms, aiming vital parts or limbs.

 

• Player vs Player melee "Real time Turn by turn style." I know Lemmy loves TbT

I was asking myself how to "simulate" a somewhat realistic fight between players without making it look like a swing fest until one of the 2 players dies (would work with NPC as well).
It's still blurry in my head and hard to explain, but something along those lines.
If you attack someone that is not ready to fight (ie. not holding RMB), you hit him, simple.
If you attack someone holding RMB, the fight happens in a "turn by turn"-ish system, the must would be to have an "old Fallout VATS aiming style" as well.

Basically the attacker gets the first turn, decides where he wants to aim (with a percentage of chances to hit : neck is harder to hit than chest, but the reward is higher etc...), and attacks while the defender decides if he wants to counter and fight or dodge and run away. Dices roll, calculations happen, taking into account players' weapons, skill with that weapon, moodles, strenght, traits etc... If no one died of a critial blow, the defender becomes the attacker and we start over until the fight reaches its end.
Keep in mind this is an Isometric game, and any "action-game like" mechanism is unlikely to work in a satisfying manner imho. I think keeping a truely RPG fighting style is the way to go when it comes to PvP (or PvNPC)

Turn by Turn "lockdown" should only happen for the players involved in the fight, all the other players can still do their stuff in real time. Would be cool to have an old school isometric rpg "fight animation", you know when the players are taking a fighting stance and swing into the air at each other, maybe moving around and making some noise ;o

On second thoughts, nope.
 

• Shoot-outs

There already are plenty good threads with nice ideas about it, so I won't extend. Maybe I will later, if anything good and "new" comes to my mind.

 

• Traps for humans (suggestions for the future of traps)

We all know traps are a planned feature, but we don't know how yet !

• Lethal & Non-Lethal Traps for humans, different kind of traps (net trap, axe trap, shotgun trap, "hole in the ground" trap, "brick on your head" trap etc...)
• Ability to make efficient traps should be related to a particular skill (which one?)
• Traps should be active for people who don't know their locations (if this or that precise door/floor/window is trapped...)
• You should be able to warn your friendlies about the locations of your traps. Like you'd right click on someone > contextual menu > Tell location of traps, then he'll be able to walk pass them.

 

[sneaking & Noise]

Spoiler

• Louder noises

Actual noises created by actions (opening doors/windows, breaking windows/doors, gunshots, building etc...) have a small radius. I think it should deserve a little radius enlargement !

• Sneaking overhaul (ideas) :
  • Separating sneaking (ctrl) from attacking !  numerous time I found myself sneaking past a group of zombies, and ended up hitting the door with my weapon because I was holding ctrl. [Confirmed]
  • using furnitures & "map items" to hide yourself (under beds, in wardrobes, behind sofas, behind fences, behind cars when they're here etc...)
  • maybe 2 or 3 different body positions ? Standing / crouching / crawling.
  • Actions like opening doors & windows should make more noise in general, but we should have an alternate way that takes slightly longer time but make less noise (action + ctrl). Maybe even the opposite a Loud & Quick way when holding the sprint key.
• "Map noises" (kind of related to sneaking) The idea comes from another thread, but that's what makes more sense to me :
  • Bumping into furnitures should make noise (chairs grinding on the floor, things falling from tables/container if you run bump into them etc...)
    That will force the players to be careful when looting indoor if they don't want to alert nearby zombies (or other players !).
  • Random "map related" noises, just like alarms but on less dramatic scales !
    "Like no one would suspect that shelf isn't properly fixed to the wall and going through the books would break it, or that grabbing a knife on that messy table would make that bottle fall on the floor, or that a mess of tins and glass bottles was waiting for you behind that door, or even that the door hinges were old and would squeak like a scream in the night, or this window wasn't properly manufactured and would shut itself in a loud clapping noise, or the good old creaking stairs etc..."
  • Same principle but outdoor : some more garbages scattered accross the street, broken glass, empty cans of food making noise if you step on them and send them rolling.

 

[skills, Jobs, Traits]

 

Spoiler

• Skills overhaul
  
  Suggestion that popped out of another thread :
  
  "It would be nice to see carpentry leveling not as a succession of craft-recipes unlocking over time but as an evolution of the quality of your work. Like, anyone could give a shot at building a rain barrel but a non-experienced guy would make it less hermetic (leaking), with a smaller capacity, maybe pretty weak and prone to break during storms or having its water contaminated by bacterias. Low level stairs could be ladder-ish stairs, slower to climb and weaker, prone to break under the weight of an heavy-loaded person etc...
  The more you level up, the better the quality of your work : thicker, more resistant, more efficient, more useful for harsh conditions.
  
  That could work for any crafting & surviving skills.
  A low level trapper would craft shitty traps with high risk of animals getting away, not weather resistant. the harder the trap is to build, the more chance you have to make a trap that barely works or doesn't work at all.
  A low level fisherman would craft weak fishing poles, bad hooks, and fish would get away way more often, except very small ones.
  When the electricity crafting comes in, you'd have high chances of making a circuit that cuts a lot, need more fuel, high risk of fire, power outage when rainy, or simply doesn't work if you try to craft something too complicated.
  etc..."
  
  Also good thread about carpentry :
  
  http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/10879-a-small-building-overhaul/
   
• Specific knowledge & aptitudes should be open only to certain jobs.
   

I think that would enforce the need to live in a community, so players can't do everything on their own, they could still survive alone, but comfort should come from groups.
I had the idea thinking about medicine, only a doctor or someone with a prior medical formation should have access to the medical skill tree (when it's implemented), and it goes for a few jobs:
-Doctors > access to medical skill tree

-Construction worker > access to electric crafting (when it's implemented) + construction bonus

-Park ranger >  tracking skill tree / outdoors man + hunting bonus ?

-Policeman > aiming bonus + ?

-Farmer > Farming bonus  + ?

• A few ideas for future jobs & traits, related to previous suggestion :

 

-Outlaw > can start any car & force doors/windows with less noise

-Comedian > social skills / makes people less depressed & bored

-Cook > Cooking bonus

-Other / player made job > bonus of +4 for choosing traits.

 

-Sunday fisher +3 > fishing bonus
-Guns nut +4 > aiming bonus
-Amateur hunter +4 > tracking ability
-Car nerd +4 > can start cars
-Pedestrian for life -1/-2 > don't know how to drive
-Musician +3 > can play instrument for moral & group moral
-Boring -2 > bores people
-Lone wolf -2 > gets bored by other people

etc...

 

That would allow "multi-class" char but would still limit the fact that people can do, right now, everything on their own.

 

 

 

[General suggestions]

Spoiler

• deeper health & injuries sytem
• deeper nutrition system

I think it's already been discussed quite a lot on the old forums. Eating properly should be essential to keep your character in good shape, and should be a "long term work" with long term repercussions.
You don't die of starvation in a few days. But lacking certain nutriments will, on the long term, make your character weaker, getting tired more easily, depressed, slower to heal and more prone to diseases and wound infections etc...

Being well fed and having some bonus on your character's strenght and mind should be the same. If you eat at your fill when you're hungry, and a good variety of aliments (not only chips and beans) your character should deserve a "long term" boost.

The idea is, it's hard to keep a decent health in an apocalyptic environment and red moodles should be the "standard" if you're not perfectly settled or part of a well organized community of survivors. Red moodles being a standard would make the player feel the harshness and despair of a zombie-filled world.

• sledgehammer should weigh more

The sledge encumbrance is way too low right now, I mean we can put a sledge in a plastic bag or a tote bag, that's a bit odd !
Plus it's a very "dangerous" item, a lot of players in MP always carry one in case they want to break-in someone's base. Moving with a big sledgehammer should be something thought through and planned, not just always carrying one around in case you need it !
It should probably weigh twice more as it actually does [12 instead of 6] NOPE

• 2 plastic bags = 1 garbage bags.

That's pretty self explanatory ! for now we can only use garbage bags to craft rain barrels, which makes those a kind of silly valuable item. I think we should have more means to make the barrels water-retaining and plastic bags seem like a good solution, but they're smaller.
Maybe raincoats = 2 garbage bags someday ? ;o

 

• Farming areas / Smart Farming

Farming can sometimes be a bit of a pain when it comes to watering and checking your plants one by one, I know that's subjective but that micro-management feels pretty annoying to me.
It would be cool to have some kind of system that allows your character to execute a chain of action : filling watering can > watering plants untill empty > filling watering can > etc...
Checking plants health > no disease > next plant
Checking plants health > disease > spray remedy > next plant.

• Wearing belts (introducing holsters for knife & pistol)

I was thinking belt, in their current state, are pretty useless. I know they'll be usefull to stop important bleeding (Kate & Baldspot memories), but people are not very likely to always have a belt in their inventory, except if they're wearing them !
Severe bleeding > taking belt off > tourniquet etc...
Wearing a belt could also be used to hold holsters for knives & pistols. Holsters would be a quick-access container/bag (maybe a bind to draw from holster?), which would make some space in your inventory. Maybe holsters should be craftable ?

 

 

 

 

[Multiplayer & Admin Suggestions]

Spoiler

• In-game chat overhaul

The player should be able to choose if he wants to whisper, talk or shout, which would influence the range other players could read what he wrote, and the range zombies would hear it as well.

 

• Actually writting on journals / paper sheets / notes

That would be pretty awesome. You could keep a journal which other players could fine on your body or in your bag when they find your corpse. Writting it / Reading it would fight boredom.
That would create some pretty deep RP and immersion as well. DONE

 

• Adding a delay when disconnecting from a server.

...To prevent wild disconnections and abuses. I see it coming from here, people disconnecting to save their character when they're in trouble, I already saw an ennemy breaking into our safehouse and disconnecting in the toilet to embush us later, time to get to him, he wasn't here anymore.
A delay of 30s to 1min should do the trick, people would have to disconnect in safe places, which makes sense imo. Disconnecting outside in the middle of the road should be dangerous.

 

• [admin] Teleporting next to a player or on a point of the map
• [admin] triggering a precise house alarm

• [admin] Wiping/removing massive piles of corpses. [FPS drop issue]
• [admin] Option to choose in what proportions the loot will spawn [more food, less weapons, more tools, more kitchen misc, less bags etc...]

Explaination :
 

Maybe an admin command to remove bodies around him/on his screen or something along those lines. Because it really happens in certain zombie-packed areas, those FPS drops aren't happening everywhere, and they are mostly happening in places where NO ONE will ever clean up, generally pretty far from people's safehouses.
 
If admins could remove only bodies in certain places, it wouldn't "bypass" the hygiene/cleaning system once the feature is in the game, players would still have to clean in and around their safe place. But areas reported as creating fps drops for certain players could be easily delt with ! and without breaking the whole atmosphere the map's acquired through time.
 
This is something we've been able to notice when trying to precisely avoid using soft resets (I think it was broken, don't know if it still is as I'm not the one in charge of it), So we were manually spawning large hordes around / on the edges of each cities, a few little hordes in the center and spreading them with meta-events. The accumulation of bodies can be pretty insane, and I think that's something we/you might have to deal with once the migration system kicks in !

 

 

 

That's all for now, I'll add more when I have something consistent, everyone's welcome to discuss and share their point of views. Keep it clean and polite as always.

[syfy]

(lol, trying to keep all the colors from getting used to frequently would have driven me nuts)

 

 

focusing on just one item, The Crawlers, i have to agree. there ought to be a way they can be a bit more dangerous than always going for your crotch, as they love to do. since we don't know if falling down will be something they bring into the game, i agree they should be able to grab onto your leg until you can break free. if running thru tall grass where they lie in wait, possibly tripping someone could be interesting, but it would mean they would have to "activate" extremely fast so they could get in position. so that's a little iffy, may be hard to create. but something something to make them just a little more dangerous, that fits within the lore, would be welcome.

[silents429]

Goodness please change the colors. My vision is killing itself.

Otherwise good ideas

[Bioradical]

(lol, trying to keep all the colors from getting used to frequently would have driven me nuts)

 

 

focusing on just one item, The Crawlers, i have to agree. there ought to be a way they can be a bit more dangerous than always going for your crotch, as they love to do. since we don't know if falling down will be something they bring into the game, i agree they should be able to grab onto your leg until you can break free. if running thru tall grass where they lie in wait, possibly tripping someone could be interesting, but it would mean they would have to "activate" extremely fast so they could get in position. so that's a little iffy, may be hard to create. but something something to make them just a little more dangerous, that fits within the lore, would be welcome.

 

They can hide reasonably well in tall grass and if you fail to kill them with one hit, it's definitely possible to be scratched or bitten in the following second. I think I'm ok with things as they currently are with crawlers.

[deprav]

Goodness please change the colors. My vision is killing itself.

Otherwise good ideas

There, it should hurt less now xD

 

 

They can hide reasonably well in tall grass and if you fail to kill them with one hit, it's definitely possible to be scratched or bitten in the following second. I think I'm ok with things as they currently are with crawlers.

 

 

Well, I think it would be pretty logical that crawlers grab ankles, unlike standing Z their arms are the only way they have to move their mouth close to living flesh. I really don't see them doing push-ups to get a bite at someone's groin ;o

Plus the point is to raise the difficulty of Z encounters, as Lemmy said in another (unrelated) thread :

 

 

[...] so to not like it is to not like what PZ is all about, the hardcore difficulty leanings (which we fail on with the zombie combat atm and this is considered an issue) [...]

I think those kind of mechanics could help.

 

 

 

I forgot some suggestions, I'll add them tomorrow for now it's time to get some sleep

[deprav]

Added the stuff I was too lazy to write yesterday + some I forgot :

Spoiler

• Weapon skills should have more "incidence"

In its actual state, I'm pretty much never spending any point in any "combat skill tree", the lvl 0 is just way too efficient. If we grab an axe we're just the king of the Z world, 1 hit kill half of the time. The only weapon that makes me feel like a weak level 0 is the golfclub right now.

Wearing belts (introducing holsters for knife & pistol)

I was thinking belt, in their current state, are pretty useless. I know they'll be usefull to stop important bleeding (Kate & Baldspot memories), but people are not very likely to always have a belt in their inventory, except if they're wearing them !
Severe bleeding > taking belt off > tourniquet etc...
Wearing a belt could also be used to hold holsters for knives & pistols. Holsters would be a quick-access container/bag (maybe a bind to draw from holster?), which would make some space in your inventory. Maybe holsters should be craftable ?

[sneaking & Noise]
 Sneaking overhaul (ideas) :Separating sneaking (ctrl) from attacking ! numerous time I found myself sneaking past a group of zombies, and ended up hitting the door with my weapon because I was holding ctrl. using furnitures & "map items" to hide yourself (under beds, in wardrobes, behind sofas, behind fences, behind cars when they're here etc...)maybe 2 or 3 different body positions ? Standing / crouching / crawling.Actions like opening doors & windows should make more noise in general, but we should have an alternate way that takes slightly longer time but make less noise (action + ctrl). Maybe even the opposite a Lour & Quick way when holding the sprint key.  "Map noises" (kind of related to sneaking) The idea comes from another thread, but that's what makes more sense to me :Bumping into furnitures should make noise (chairs grinding on the floor, things falling from tables/container if you run bump into them etc...)
That will force the players to be careful when looting indoor if they don't want to alert nearby zombies (or other players !).Random "map related" noises, just like alarms but on less dramatic scales !
"Like no one would suspect that shelf isn't properly fixed to the wall and going through the books would break it, or that grabbing a knife on that messy table would make that bottle fall on the floor, or that a mess of tins and glass bottles was waiting for you behind that door, or even that the door hinges were old and would squeak like a scream in the night, or this window wasn't properly manufactured and would shut itself in a loud clapping noise, or the good old creaking stairs etc..."Same principle but outdoor : some more garbages scattered accross the street, broken glass, empty cans of food making noise if you step on them and send them rolling.

[uberevan]

This is before I actually read the suggestions, but right off the bat I can tell you that I hate this title.  The devs sometimes completely skip over these.  No one actually knows what you are suggesting when you do something like this.  The suggestions might actually be awesome, but I wouldn't know because the title is too ambiguous.  I understand you don't want to spam articles, but this isn't a good way to represent yourself.  Just my two cents.  I'll edit this post when I actually read the article

 

Edit: Okay, pretty good suggestions.  Most weren't outstanding that I have heard before, but hearing them again is good because the more people that want it the more likely it will be added!

I thought the TbT idea was interesting but it doesn't make that much sense in this kind of game, (No one will wait for the other to attack before their own attack) as well as being challenging to implement in a game with more than 2 people because you can't stop a game for 2 people to battle.

The server disconnect idea I like very much, because it's so cheap to disconnect to be saved from dying.

I also like the set off whatever alarm the admin wants idea, so you can have some forts invaded by zombs.

[deprav]

I have to agree the title does suck, but I don't know how to call that thread, just too much stuff inside. Or I'll go for something like "Kind of organized bunch of ideas".

Yeah nothing to fancy, I trust the people of TIS ! And seeing what features they already planned I just feel like suggesting some ideas to "optimize" what they've already done or are about to do. It's more like a "don't forget about those stuffs" thread than a "what about adding this" thread ;p (that should be my title !).

 

About the TbT thingy :
 

 

I thought the TbT idea was interesting but it doesn't make that much sense in this kind of game, (No one will wait for the other to attack before their own attack) as well as being challenging to implement in a game with more than 2 people because you can't stop a game for 2 people to battle.

 

Imo PZ - even if he shows different mechanics - is a RPG before eveything else, hence the TbT idea ! Plus Lemmy who's been talking about a fully TbT mod for PZ that he might be working on, someday.
I precisely called it a <"turn by turn"-ish system> , I'm fully aware a real TbT wouldn't feel right with the rest of the game in real time. As I wrote, I think only the players (2 or more) involved into the fight should be in "lockdown", every other players should still be able to do their own stuff in real time like always. A simple mechanic like a 5~10 seconds timer to play your turn should keep it dynamic enough !

 

"No one will wait for the other to attack before their own attack"

Players will do whatever the game want them to do : if they have to wait for the other player's attack to be able to attack, they will ! It's not like they had the choice to attack while their ennemy is playing its turn. ;p
It might be poorely explained in the OP, you didn't seem to picture this suggestion well.
 

[uberevan]

The title is definitely improved lol

I was looking at it from the standpoint of real life though (TbT)

"Okay, I missed him...Gonna wait till he swings...Ouch! Okay, my arm is broken, he'll give me time to switch hands...Okay...Swing! Yeah! I broke his leg! Gonna wait till he gets up...Kay, he's struggling, wait for his swing...I dodged! Yes!  Okay, he'll react when I attack, so...Swing! Yes!  He's dead!  Hey another guy!  I got a bow, but I gotta wait till the battle starts...K, now I'll hit him with a bat..."

See, it just seems kind of silly.  I'm sure there's a way to do it without it being overly stupid, but overall I feel like the system we have now makes more sense.

[deprav]

The title is definitely improved lol

I was looking at it from the standpoint of real life though (TbT)

"Okay, I missed him...Gonna wait till he swings...Ouch! Okay, my arm is broken, he'll give me time to switch hands...Okay...Swing! Yeah! I broke his leg! Gonna wait till he gets up...Kay, he's struggling, wait for his swing...I dodged! Yes!  Okay, he'll react when I attack, so...Swing! Yes!  He's dead!  Hey another guy!  I got a bow, but I gotta wait till the battle starts...K, now I'll hit him with a bat..."

See, it just seems kind of silly.  I'm sure there's a way to do it without it being overly stupid, but overall I feel like the system we have now makes more sense.

 

We don't have any system for PvP right now, if you look at it from "real life" pov it would just be 2 persons standing in front of each others and swing whatever they have in their hands in front of them until someone dies, that doesn't make much sense imo.

"Turn-by-Turn-ish" isn't supposed to simulate people taking their time and thinking inbetween hits and attacks. That's why in real TbT time stops : the players percieve it on a longer lapse of time, but for his character it would represent a few seconds. But ye, as I already stated, it's impossible to stop time for an entire server only for a few people fighting, that's why it should stay a "real-time TbT" with a time limiting factor inbetween "turns".

[deprav]

I added some things :

Spoiler

• Rebalancing zombie knock-down / push

I think it could be an effective way to make combat harder, in its actual state it's way too easy to push a zombie down on the floor and finish him with a few blows fast enough before a second one reaches you.
I think "pushes" shouldn't knock the zombies down on the floor, it should make it shamble a couple of steps back so you can charge a REAL hit that would make it fall.
Basically it should be something like this :
- fast not-charged hit > the zed shamble, makes a step backward

- push / shove > the zed shambles a couple of steps backward, low chance to make it fall.

- heavy hit > the zed falls, you can finish it on the ground / chance of critical one hit kill if the player have a high skill with the weapon he's using.
 

• Longer thrust animation for thrusting weapons / knives

The actual animation is too fast imo, It's only thrust & win and with the incoming hunting knife it might be a bit overpowered. I think it should take twice longer to simulate the 2 "times" of the thrust : 1st you thrust, make sure you destroy the brain with a little "twist movement", and 2nd you pull your knife back.

• Louder noises

Actual noises created by actions (opening doors/windows, breaking windows/doors, gunshots, building etc...) have a small radius. I think it should deserve a little radius enlargement !

• sledgehammer should weigh more

The sledge encumbrance is way too low right now, I mean we can put a sledge in a plastic bag or a tote bag, that's a bit odd !
Plus it's a very "dangerous" item, a lot of players in MP always carry one in case they want to break-in someone's base. Moving with a big sledgehammer should be someone thought through and planned, not just always carrying one around in case you need it !
It should probably weigh twice more as it actually does [12 instead of 6]

• 2 plastic bags = 1 garbage bags.

That's pretty self explanatory ! for now we can only use garbage bags to craft rain barrels, which makes those a kind of silly valuable item. I think we should have more means to make the barrels water-retaining and plastic bags seem like a good solution, but they're smaller.
Maybe raincoats = 2 garbage bags someday ? ;o

 

[skills, Jobs, Traits]

 

Spoiler

• rebalancing skills & levels

The actual "character's learning curve" is overpowered for certain skills/knowledges, especially for sprinting, weapon skills, and carpentry.

-Carpentry :
It's actually pretty easy to reach the 4th level of carpentry quickly if you find the skill books (and you most likely will). I think the amount of XP inbetween level should be increased by a lot, or the multipliers should be lowered !

-Sprinting :
With the athletic trait we're OP on level 2 ; lightspeed, able to run while extremely heavy loaded like a normal character on crazy long distances, that should be the state of level 5 imo.
Imo the first 2 level shouldn't have any speed bonus but stamina bonus, running on longer distances, then stamina + slight speed on level 3, then speed bonus on level 4, and then level 5...
-Weapon skills : [refer to first part, fighting zombies]

• Specific knowledge & aptitudes should be open only to certain jobs.
   

I think that would enforce the need to live in a community, so players can't do everything on their own, they could still survive alone, but comfort should come from groups.
I had the idea thinking about medicine, only a doctor or someone with a prior medical formation should have access to the medical skill tree (when it's implemented), and it goes for a few jobs:
-Doctors > access to medical skill tree

-Construction worker > access to electric crafting (when it's implemented) + construction bonus

-Park ranger >  tracking skill tree / outdoors man + hunting bonus ?

-Policeman > aiming bonus + ?

-Farmer > Farming bonus  + ?

• A few ideas for future jobs & traits, related to previous suggestion :

-Outlaw > can start any car & force doors/windows with less noise

-Comedian > social skills / makes people less depressed & bored

-Cook > Cooking bonus

-Other / player made job > bonus of +4 for choosing traits.

-Sunday fisher +3 > fishing bonus
-Guns nut +4 > aiming bonus
-Amateur hunter +4 > tracking ability
-Car nerd +4 > can start cars
-Pedestrian for life -1/-2 > don't know how to drive
-Musician +3 > can play instrument for moral & group moral
-Boring -2 > bores people
-Lone wolf -2 > gets bored by other people

 

etc...

That would allow "multi-class" char but would still limit the fact that people can do, right now, everything on their own.

 

• [admin] Option to choose in what proportions the loot will spawn [more food, less weapons, more tools, more kitchen misc, less bags etc...]

And re-organized it a bit, that was a "TL;DR" at first sight.

[booner352]

The sledgehammer one is bothering me the most. I don't know if you've ever used one before, but I think the sledgehammer is right where it should be. If I'm correct, it weighs 5, a log weighs 9 and a plank weighs 3. Unless a log and plank are going up in weight to, they are all about the right weight relative to each other. The problem I have with the sledgehammer is that your swing it once or twice and you're guy is exhausted and has to take a break. I have swung sledgehammers 20+ times without feeling tired and I can still swing it pretty decent once I am tired.

 

In my opinion, the sledgehammer should be a very rare item. No one really keeps one at there house (that I know of). The weight should stay the same. You should be able to use one for more than a couple swings. You should be able to swing it while exhausted. It should have a large noise radius. If you're breaking through walls with a sledgehammer in a dead quite town, anything within a block or two could hear it easily.

[dra6o0n]

Custom animation for zombie grabs might be useful, and makes multiplayer and co-op a vital component.

 

Take Dead Rising for instance, where you can get grabbed in various poses, and use a quick time event to break out, or is saved by an ally.

 

This means zombies in large groups gets REALLY dangerous if you so much as get grabbed by one near a group.

 

Of course grabbing potential must be low enough that players can shove a zombie away or evade the grab most of the time.

It is only when they grab you from the back that the chances of them latching onto you is extremely high. Other than that, simply being surrounded would increase the chances of being latched onto by a zombie or two.

 

By custom animation, means a interaction between a zombie and you sorta like the 'close up shove' animation when a zombie is close to you and you are 'pushing' them away... Except this time it's a CQC encounter and you must mash a button on screen to break out of it, which takes time and allows the horde to get closer.

 

Currently in the game you simply slow down if you are being grabbed, and its hard to say how effective that is.

 

Dying Light Game for the next gen PC and Consoles showed the importance of a close quarter zombie encounter. It's about being up close and personal with zombies baring their jaws and face.

 

Being up close to a zombie would ramp up your panic and adrenaline, which may reduce accuracy, but increases your strength by a lot, but it only lasts in a short burst and the longer you take to break out, the weaker you will become over time as the adrenaline rush wares off...

[deprav]

The sledgehammer one is bothering me the most. I don't know if you've ever used one before, but I think the sledgehammer is right where it should be. If I'm correct, it weighs 5, a log weighs 9 and a plank weighs 3. Unless a log and plank are going up in weight to, they are all about the right weight relative to each other. The problem I have with the sledgehammer is that your swing it once or twice and you're guy is exhausted and has to take a break. I have swung sledgehammers 20+ times without feeling tired and I can still swing it pretty decent once I am tired.

 

In my opinion, the sledgehammer should be a very rare item. No one really keeps one at there house (that I know of). The weight should stay the same. You should be able to use one for more than a couple swings. You should be able to swing it while exhausted. It should have a large noise radius. If you're breaking through walls with a sledgehammer in a dead quite town, anything within a block or two could hear it easily.

 

The "weight" of the items is not really their "weight", it's an arbitral "encumbrance factor" considering the approximative size, shape and weight of the item.

Lets compare it with a shotgun, since they're in the same "size range". A shotgun weighs (I'm no specialist I just googled a few classic ones) between 5 pounds and 8 pounds, and a sledgehammer weighs between 10 pounds to 20 pounds with 80% of it's weight being the "head", which means the weight repartition is awful and if you carry it in a bag you'll have all its weight in one side of the bag. And that's not something you want to constantly have in your bag when you move around hordes of walking corpses.

I think the shotgun encumbrance is 4, the sledge's encumbrance could reasonnably be raised to 2.5 to 3 times the encumbrance of a shotgun imo. At least big enough so you can't put them in a paper or plastic bag.

 

Considering its rarity, I think it's fine as it is right now. You rarely find any in people's house and mostly find them in warehouses and industrial sites. What bothers me is really the fact it can be carried around to destroy very easily !

Maybe just making plaster walls harder to break with sledges, right now it takes only a few seconds : the time you hear the blows on your wall and check what's happening, the bad guys can already get in.

Tho yeah I agree about the number of swings + high exertion, but it's the same for every weapons. It's the only (clumsy) way they had to balance fighting and make it a bit more difficult. But I'm pretty sure it will change when they'll add and tweak some fighting mechanics ;p

 

 

Of course grabbing potential must be low enough that players can shove a zombie away or evade the grab most of the time.

It is only when they grab you from the back that the chances of them latching onto you is extremely high. Other than that, simply being surrounded would increase the chances of being latched onto by a zombie or two.

 

By custom animation, means a interaction between a zombie and you sorta like the 'close up shove' animation when a zombie is close to you and you are 'pushing' them away... Except this time it's a CQC encounter and you must mash a button on screen to break out of it, which takes time and allows the horde to get closer.

 

 

That's exactly what I had in mind ^^

[Wilson SDS]

 

[fighting zombies]

 

The actual system is too easy/simple and could use a few simple mechanics to make it harder. It's actually still too easy to wreck a large amount of zombies with a melee weapon, It should be VERY DANGEROUS to fight more than a couple at the same time. A few ideas to rebalance it a bit and make it more consistent :

 

I totally agree on survivor mode, but have you played in the customized sandbox with all difficulties at max? 

[Wilson SDS]

 

[fighting zombies]

 

• Rebalancing zombie knock-down / push

I think it could be an effective way to make combat harder, in its actual state it's way too easy to push a zombie down on the floor and finish him with a few blows fast enough before a second one reaches you.

I think "pushes" shouldn't knock the zombies down on the floor, it should make it shamble a couple of steps back so you can charge a REAL hit that would make it fall.

Basically it should be something like this :

- fast un-charged hit > the zed shamble, makes a step backward

- push / shove > the zed shambles a couple of steps backward, low chance to make it fall.

- heavy hit > the zed falls, you can finish it on the ground / chance of critical one hit kill if the player have a high level with the weapon he's using.

That will force us to make a good use of the reach of the different weapons.

 

 

I kinda disagree, pushing a shambler back sure has a chance of knocking in down. But surely if not knocked we will be pushed back at least a few steps, then like you said, could be a chance of making a charge attack that would surely drop him on the floor.

 

In this game, the shamblers already have a chance of not being knocked down when pushed, adding a charge attack would actually make the game easier. People would just do the last charge attack from the start. Or are you thinking of some combo like streests of rage? =D.

 

I guess, if you may, i would like to suggest this charging heavy attack like and special attack that you can unlock when reaches at a certain level in a skill. 

• Longer thrust animation for thrusting weapons / knives

The actual animation is too fast imo, It's only thrust & win and with the incoming hunting knife it might be a bit overpowered. I think it should take twice longer to simulate the 2 "times" of the thrust : 1st you thrust, make sure you destroy the brain with a little "twist movement", and 2nd you pull your knife back.

 

 

Maybe making at the start of the game the thrusting of all weapons 2 to 3 times longer, then spending skills at a certain weapon speed you can get to a max attack speed, that would be the one that the game have it now. 

[Wilson SDS]

• More consistent "zombie grab"

The actual grab only slows your movement and is easy to "break", I think it should have more consequences. If a zombie grabs you it should be a sign you'll be bitten in the next second.

Breaking a grab should be harder than a simple push, zombies should have a stronger prehension. I'd like to see a "Mash the button" mechanics to fight grabs, the same way you have to mash "E" when you're desperate to break a window, the player should mash his LMB for a while to prevent the Z from pulling him into its jaws, making the player TOTALLY unable to move and defensless against other Z. After a little while of LMB mashing, the grab breaks and the Z shamble backward and you're finally able to continue the fight. (maybe insta kill with a knife once you overcome the grab ?)

 

 

The slow movement is a cool thing, but adding this mashing option would sure be nice, but just when a zombie gets very close to you, and not every single time.

The strength of the character, some possible new traits like a close quarters combat (judo, for example) or holding an knife (or similar penetration weapon)  would have some impact in this mashing as well. After releasing the grab also could be added a chance of you or/and the zombie being knocked in the floor.

 

Crawlers should do the same thing with your legs, with a higher chance of knocking you in the floor.

 

In the floor you could do some kicks, roll in the floor or get up, the speed of getting up and rolling could depend on you nimble level.

[Wilson SDS]

• Crawler's grab should have a high chance to make the player fall on the ground.

If the player gets his leg grabbed by a crawler and try to move away from it without breaking it / killing the Z, there's a HIGH chance he will fall on the floor for a short amount of time, making him extremely vulnerable to any other close zombie(s)

Same goes for sprinting next to a crawler, if he grabs you while you sprint -> you fall.

 

 

Liked this, but the sensibility of the movement that would make fall in the floor shouldn't be so high, or else you make this frustrating. 

 

Sprinting next to a crawler and falling should be a fall, totally agree, but if you are walking, you could have to do this mashing test (if he grabs you, and not just bite).

• Certain weapons having a chance to get stuck into zombies' skull

"Bladed" and piercing weapons (axes, crowbars, knives, hammers?, nailed bats etc...) should have a chance to get stuck into skulls, maybe resulting in another fierce mashing of a key to get it unstuck before the next Z gets into the player's danger zone. If it's too dangerous and you can't get it unstuck in time, you'd have to leave it there and run away (and comeback later if you want to get it back)

 

 

Great idea, totally agree.

[Wilson SDS]

• Weapon skills should have more "incidence"

In its actual state, I'm pretty much never spending any point in any "combat skill tree", the lvl 0 is just way too efficient. If we grab an axe we're just the king of the Z world, 1 hit kill half of the time. The only weapon that makes me feel like a weak level 0 is the golfclub right now.

 

 

In survivor mode you are right, in a customized game not so much.

But i agree that weapons, at least at the start of the game should be with slow damage, attack speed and durability, and with time, you spend skill points in the weapon style or type and you can a better use of it.

[Wilson SDS]

 

[fighting non-zombies]

 

             Lethal & Non-Lethal mods (I'll use that idea a lot in the future)

This was my first suggestion on the old forums. In a RPG with moral choices like PZ, we should be able to decide if we want to knock someone out (and make him a hostage or something), just hurt him, or go for the kill. There could be chances that you fail tho... You wanted to keep him alive but that blow behind his head got him killed, or in the opposite, you wanted to kill him but failed to do so and he's now on the run with revenge on his mind.

It should work as well for firearms, aiming vital parts or limbs.

 

 

Great idea, i would like to add, if i may, when knocked down someone unconscious, you could steal him.

[Wilson SDS]

 

• Player vs Player melee "Real time Turn by turn style." I know Lemmy loves TbT

I was asking myself how to "simulate" a somewhat realistic fight between players without making it look like a swing fest until one of the 2 players dies (would work with NPC as well).

It's still blurry in my head and hard to explain, but something along those lines.

If you attack someone that is not ready to fight (ie. not holding RMB), you hit him, simple.

If you attack someone holding RMB, the fight happens in a "turn by turn"-ish system, the must would be to have an "old Fallout VATS aiming style" as well.

Basically the attacker gets the first turn, decides where he wants to aim (with a percentage of chances to hit : neck is harder to hit than chest, but the reward is higher etc...), and attacks while the defender decides if he wants to counter and fight or dodge and run away. Dices roll, calculations happen, taking into account players' weapons, skill with that weapon, moodles, strenght, traits etc... If no one died of a critial blow, the defender becomes the attacker and we start over until the fight reaches its end.

Keep in mind this is an Isometric game, and any "action-game like" mechanism is unlikely to work in a satisfying manner imho. I think keeping a truely RPG fighting style is the way to go when it comes to PvP (or PvNPC)

Turn by Turn "lockdown" should only happen for the players involved in the fight, all the other players can still do their stuff in real time. Would be cool to have an old school isometric rpg "fight animation", you know when the players are taking a fighting stance and swing into the air at each other, maybe moving around and making some noise ;o

 

This has a problem, in 1x1 is good, but how to determine which player is in the fight, or want to be.

 

If it is 2x1, and the first that attacks goes in lockdown and the other just sit and wait the results? Or if there i found a friend fighting, and being of need of assistance, is there a way to enter in the combat in melee, or if i decide to shoot?

 

Should be an in game interface for entering the combat, picking a side, or just click and shoot.

 

• Shoot-outs

There already are plenty good threads with nice ideas about it, so I won't extend. Maybe I will later, if anything good and "new" comes to my mind.

 

 

I didn't see yet the other ideas, but i just have to say it, hahah plz add corner/cover system, and cornerspoting. 

 

[sneaking & Noise]

• Louder noises

Actual noises created by actions (opening doors/windows, breaking windows/doors, gunshots, building etc...) have a small radius. I think it should deserve a little radius enlargement !

 

Agreed, and till now i never went through a zombie siege besides the challenge 1.

 

[sneaking & Noise]

 

• Sneaking overhaul (ideas) :
  • Separating sneaking (ctrl) from attacking ! numerous time I found myself sneaking past a group of zombies, and ended up hitting the door with my weapon because I was holding ctrl.
  • using furnitures & "map items" to hide yourself (under beds, in wardrobes, behind sofas, behind fences, behind cars when they're here etc...)
  • maybe 2 or 3 different body positions ? Standing / crouching / crawling.
  • Actions like opening doors & windows should make more noise in general, but we should have an alternate way that takes slightly longer time but make less noise (action + ctrl). Maybe even the opposite a Loud & Quick way when holding the sprint key.
• "Map noises" (kind of related to sneaking) The idea comes from another thread, but that's what makes more sense to me :
  • Bumping into furnitures should make noise (chairs grinding on the floor, things falling from tables/container if you run bump into them etc...)

    That will force the players to be careful when looting indoor if they don't want to alert nearby zombies (or other players !).

  • Random "map related" noises, just like alarms but on less dramatic scales !

    "Like no one would suspect that shelf isn't properly fixed to the wall and going through the books would break it, or that grabbing a knife on that messy table would make that bottle fall on the floor, or that a mess of tins and glass bottles was waiting for you behind that door, or even that the door hinges were old and would squeak like a scream in the night, or this window wasn't properly manufactured and would shut itself in a loud clapping noise, or the good old creaking stairs etc..."

  • Same principle but outdoor : some more garbages scattered accross the street, broken glass, empty cans of food making noise if you step on them and send them rolling.

[/spoil]

 

 

I hope this be added in the game.

[Wilson SDS]

 

[skills, Jobs, Traits]

 

• rebalancing skills & levels

The actual "character's learning curve" is overpowered for certain skills/knowledges, especially for sprinting, weapon skills, and carpentry.

-Carpentry :

It's actually pretty easy to reach the 4th level of carpentry quickly if you find the skill books (and you most likely will). I think the amount of XP inbetween level should be increased by a lot, or the multipliers should be lowered !

-Sprinting :

With the athletic trait we're OP on level 2 ; lightspeed, able to run while extremely heavy loaded like a normal character on crazy long distances, that should be the state of level 5 imo.

Imo the first 2 level shouldn't have any speed bonus but stamina bonus, running on longer distances, then stamina + slight speed on level 3, then speed bonus on level 4, and then level 5...

-Weapon skills : [refer to first part, fighting zombies]

• Specific knowledge & aptitudes should be open only to certain jobs.

   

I think that would enforce the need to live in a community, so players can't do everything on their own, they could still survive alone, but comfort should come from groups.

I had the idea thinking about medicine, only a doctor or someone with a prior medical formation should have access to the medical skill tree (when it's implemented), and it goes for a few jobs:

-Doctors > access to medical skill tree

-Construction worker > access to electric crafting (when it's implemented) + construction bonus

-Park ranger >  tracking skill tree / outdoors man + hunting bonus ?

-Policeman > aiming bonus + ?

-Farmer > Farming bonus  + ?

• A few ideas for future jobs & traits, related to previous suggestion :

 

-Outlaw > can start any car & force doors/windows with less noise

-Comedian > social skills / makes people less depressed & bored

-Cook > Cooking bonus

-Other / player made job > bonus of +4 for choosing traits.

 

-Sunday fisher +3 > fishing bonus

-Guns nut +4 > aiming bonus

-Amateur hunter +4 > tracking ability

-Car nerd +4 > can start cars

-Pedestrian for life -1/-2 > don't know how to drive

-Musician +3 > can play instrument for moral & group moral

-Boring -2 > bores people

-Lone wolf -2 > gets bored by other people

etc...

 

That would allow "multi-class" char but would still limit the fact that people can do, right now, everything on their own.

 

 

Carpentry:

1) Being able to remove the wooden floor that i made.

2) Being able to improve the appearance of the stuff that i made on previous skill levels.

3) When i break a furnishings, they could drop nails and boards.

4) Being able to make a bed, an wooden wheelbarrow and a waterwheel.

5) Making an waterproof floor would be nice for farming some carrots and radishes.

6) The chance of the second floor collapsing if they are made without proper foundation.

7) Being Able to build an water box.

8) Being able to build movable ladder

9) Barn Door, gate.

 

Farming:

1) More different vegetables (corn)

2) Using rotten food to make fertilizer

3) Not be able to irrigate plants with the insecticide, i mean when a plant just need water.

4) Finding a Cow, chickens and others would be cool, easy target for zombies

5) Making hay

 

Cooking:

1) The use of preserves (with boiled water or vinegar)

2) Making vinegar from grapes or wine (so i can use better the preserves)

3) Making cheese from milk

3) Making dried vegetables

 

Combat:

1) I liked, simple, real and effective, i just think that the skill progression should be different.

2) Creating a stats called humanity, if you kill a lot of zombies in a short period of time constantly you lose it, and the more you lose it the harder is to negotiate, communicate with npcs or even other players. And to rise your humanity again you must send some time with npcs, talking, chitchat (something like reading a skill book), play cards, domino, or whatever other activity.

3) A charge attack with an weapon, or a running through zombies (bullrush) sounds cool and dangerous (like a last resort move).

 

Something that could help the endgame is dividing more the weapons in skill progression, in game we just have two kinds of melee skills and one of ranged. Maybe dividing by specific weapon name, and being able to spend skills to improve durability, attack speed, attack stamina, attack damage, knockback power, decapitation chance (mutilation on zombies). For ranged weapons, attack speed, reload speed, weapon durability, hit chance, headshot chance. Each point could make an slight improve, that in time reaches a maximum.

 

Surviving:

The game has a focus on finding tools, gathering resources, avoiding natural hazards and zombies.

 

About tools, and finding then:

 

1) If you store gas, it last only a few months, then it gets spoiled.

2) Survival should be a crafting skill, so the higher is the skill, i could be able to build some of the survival gear, like the campfire, tent kit and so on, and the better the skill, the better the new equipment made.

3) Wet towel could be somehow dry, by being near of a fireplace or hand on a clothes line.

4) About weapons, plz add a geologist long cable igneous hammer, very resist stuff, and deadly =D

[Wilson SDS]

 

[General suggestions]

• deeper health & injuries sytem
• deeper nutrition system

I think it's already been discussed quite a lot on the old forums. Eating properly should be essential to keep your character in good shape, and should be a "long term work" with long term repercussions.

You don't die of starvation in a few days. But lacking certain nutriments will, on the long term, make your character weaker, getting tired more easily, depressed, slower to heal and more prone to diseases and wound infections etc...

Being well fed and having some bonus on your character's strenght and mind should be the same. If you eat at your fill when you're hungry, and a good variety of aliments (not only chips and beans) your character should deserve a "long term" boost.

The idea is, it's hard to keep a decent health in an apocalyptic environment and red moodles should be the "standard" if you're not perfectly settled or part of a well organized community of survivors. Red moodles being a standard would make the player feel the harshness and despair of a zombie-filled world.

• sledgehammer should weigh more

The sledge encumbrance is way too low right now, I mean we can put a sledge in a plastic bag or a tote bag, that's a bit odd !

Plus it's a very "dangerous" item, a lot of players in MP always carry one in case they want to break-in someone's base. Moving with a big sledgehammer should be something thought through and planned, not just always carrying one around in case you need it !

It should probably weigh twice more as it actually does [12 instead of 6]

• 2 plastic bags = 1 garbage bags.

That's pretty self explanatory ! for now we can only use garbage bags to craft rain barrels, which makes those a kind of silly valuable item. I think we should have more means to make the barrels water-retaining and plastic bags seem like a good solution, but they're smaller.

Maybe raincoats = 2 garbage bags someday ? ;o

 

• Farming areas / Smart Farming

Farming can sometimes be a bit of a pain when it comes to watering and checking your plants one by one, I know that's subjective but that micro-management feels pretty annoying to me.

It would be cool to have some kind of system that allows your character to execute a chain of action : filling watering can > watering plants untill empty > filling watering can > etc...

Checking plants health > no disease > next plant

Checking plants health > disease > spray remedy > next plant.

• Wearing belts (introducing holsters for knife & pistol)

I was thinking belt, in their current state, are pretty useless. I know they'll be usefull to stop important bleeding (Kate & Baldspot memories), but people are not very likely to always have a belt in their inventory, except if they're wearing them !

Severe bleeding > taking belt off > tourniquet etc...

Wearing a belt could also be used to hold holsters for knives & pistols. Holsters would be a quick-access container/bag (maybe a bind to draw from holster?), which would make some space in your inventory. Maybe holsters should be craftable ?

 

 

 

GREAT IDEAS, but i would like to add something more.

 

Caring about wounds, like removing a bullet would be a great thing to be added in the game, or adding a skill called First Aid, that you unlock more and more healing techniques and tools, like making splints, crutches and etc.

 

About the Sledgehammer, the weight isn't the problem, the real problem is that it destroys walls too fast. The same goes with an axe on trees and doors.

[booner352]

In my opinion, the sledgehammer should be a very rare item. No one really keeps one at there house (that I know of). The weight should stay the same. You should be able to use one for more than a couple swings. You should be able to swing it while exhausted. It should have a large noise radius. If you're breaking through walls with a sledgehammer in a dead quite town, anything within a block or two could hear it easily.

The "weight" of the items is not really their "weight", it's an arbitral "encumbrance factor" considering the approximative size, shape and weight of the item.

Lets compare it with a shotgun, since they're in the same "size range". A shotgun weighs (I'm no specialist I just googled a few classic ones) between 5 pounds and 8 pounds, and a sledgehammer weighs between 10 pounds to 20 pounds with 80% of it's weight being the "head", which means the weight repartition is awful and if you carry it in a bag you'll have all its weight in one side of the bag. And that's not something you want to constantly have in your bag when you move around hordes of walking corpses.

I think the shotgun encumbrance is 4, the sledge's encumbrance could reasonnably be raised to 2.5 to 3 times the encumbrance of a shotgun imo. At least big enough so you can't put them in a paper or plastic bag.

 

Considering its rarity, I think it's fine as it is right now. You rarely find any in people's house and mostly find them in warehouses and industrial sites. What bothers me is really the fact it can be carried around to destroy very easily !

Maybe just making plaster walls harder to break with sledges, right now it takes only a few seconds : the time you hear the blows on your wall and check what's happening, the bad guys can already get in.

Tho yeah I agree about the number of swings + high exertion, but it's the same for every weapons. It's the only (clumsy) way they had to balance fighting and make it a bit more difficult. But I'm pretty sure it will change when they'll add and tweak some fighting mechanics ;p

 

So you're alright with a shotgun fitting in a plastic bag, but not a sledgehammer? A typical shotgun weighs 8-12 pounds; some shotguns weigh 20 pounds. By this sense a shotgun and a sledgehammer weigh approximately the same. If you take the average of sledgehammer weight (15) and the average shotgun weight (10) then either the shotgun or the sledgehammer is inbalanced. In game the shotgun is 3.0 and the sledgehammer is 6.0. either a shogun needs to be 4.0 or the sledgehammer needs to be 4.5 to keep this relationship.

 

About the head being most of the weight, this is a good thing for carrying. Not to get into the physics of it, but if you're carrying it, you can easily carry it in one hand by holding near the head. If it is in your backpack, you'd place it head down; this, in turn, would give you a lower center of gravity, making you less likely to fall over.

 

For the rarity, I own three on a server, I know 2 other people that own 2. This is just in WP. Maybe the server has high loot, but that's a lot of sledgehammers going around. I do't know the loot settings so I can't comment more.

 

I've had the pleasures of tearing down walls with a sledgehammer, it's not very difficult. These are walls that are thick and built with quality by carpenters and designed by engineers. The walls you build in game aren't going to be close to that strong. I agree that this is a huge inbalance in the game right now, but wait until traps, food poisoning, and stuff like that comes along. That will be your real defense. Plus, the time it takes to tear down a wall doesn't matter much, if you are there, you kill them, if you aren't they're going to get the job done anyways.

 

P.S. I like a lot of your other ideas, I just feel like this one is a little flawed, and I thought I'd add my opinion about why the developers made it like it was.

[deprav]

Wowwowow much answers ! Thanks for your feedbacks and suggestions ^^ I'll try to answer in a "not-to-messy" way with all dem quotes.


 

I totally agree on survivor mode, but have you played in the customized sandbox with all difficulties at max? 

 

 

Yeah I did a bit ! but mostly with sprinting zeds. Tho I'm playing on a MP server with zombies' settings to the max, and I think that's pretty much how it should feel like on normal imo, minus the ubber perception they have with max settings.

 

 

In this game, the shamblers already have a chance of not being knocked down when pushed, adding a charge attack would actually make the game easier. People would just do the last charge attack from the start. Or are you thinking of some combo like streests of rage? =D.

 

You misunderstood this one ^^ I wasn't suggesting to add a special charge, I was only describing the actual system ! You already have to charge your attack to land a solid blow, if you spam your LMB your hits will be very weak and unlikely to make the Z fall down.

 

Maybe the issue comes from the fact they stay on the floor for too long and not from the "frequency of the falls". I dunno, I have mixed feelings ;p My grip is they seem to fall to easily, like I've knocked down 2-3 zombies in one single push or fast blow many times, that is a part of why the combat in its actual state is a bit easy imo.

 

Maybe making at the start of the game the thrusting of all weapons 2 to 3 times longer, then spending skills at a certain weapon speed you can get to a max attack speed, that would be the one that the game have it now.

 

 

Yep, that makes sense !

 

Liked this, but the sensibility of the movement that would make fall in the floor shouldn't be so high, or else you make this frustrating. 

 

Sprinting next to a crawler and falling should be a fall, totally agree, but if you are walking, you could have to do this mashing test (if he grabs you, and not just bite).

 

Yeah you might be right about the sensibility of the movement that shouldn't be very high to avoid frustration, a reasonnable chance to fall added to a button mashing mechanics should be enough.

 

In survivor mode you are right, in a customized game not so much.

But i agree that weapons, at least at the start of the game should be with slow damage, attack speed and durability, and with time, you spend skill points in the weapon style or type and you can a better use of it.

 

Yep, I think that's already what happens right now (not sure about the durability tho, but good point!) but it's not very well balanced yet. The level 0 is already pretty powerful and everything above level 1 is kind of OP.

 

Great idea, i would like to add, if i may, when knocked down someone unconscious, you could steal him.

 

Well yeah, of course ! Or you could kidnap him ;D

If you kidnap the "carpentry man" of a group, or its doctor etc... they could be valuable characters/players and you could ask a ransom to free them or exchange him against a member of your own group.

 

This has a problem, in 1x1 is good, but how to determine which player is in the fight, or want to be.

 

If it is 2x1, and the first that attacks goes in lockdown and the other just sit and wait the results? Or if there i found a friend fighting, and being of need of assistance, is there a way to enter in the combat in melee, or if i decide to shoot?

 

Should be an in game interface for entering the combat, picking a side, or just click and shoot.

 

Yeah I was thinking about some kind of "fight radius" when multiple fighters are involved, and if someone get his gun it would break the lockdown so its ennemy can start running (or keep smashing the guy with a gun).

 

Tho yeah I start to see some limiting factors to that TbT-ish mechanics. I'll still keep it on the OP it might please the devs but I thought about something else relying more on people's skills, I'll post it in the OP later. Basically it would be combat stance > LMB to attack, another button to block/dodge, then it's all about timing (+ character's skill with x weapon). I'll explain deeper in the OP ^^

 

I didn't see yet the other ideas, but i just have to say it, hahah plz add corner/cover system, and cornerspoting.

 

Yeah ! I actually thought the "1 button for attack, 1 button for blocking" mechanics could work for shoot outs as well. Attack button makes your char shoot, obviously, block/dodge button makes your character take cover to the nearest spot (corner/wall/fence etc...)

 

 

Spoiler

Carpentry:

1) Being able to remove the wooden floor that i made.

2) Being able to improve the appearance of the stuff that i made on previous skill levels.

3) When i break a furnishings, they could drop nails and boards.

4) Being able to make a bed, an wooden wheelbarrow and a waterwheel.

5) Making an waterproof floor would be nice for farming some carrots and radishes.

6) The chance of the second floor collapsing if they are made without proper foundation.

7) Being Able to build an water box.

8) Being able to build movable ladder

9) Barn Door, gate.

 

Farming:

1) More different vegetables (corn)

2) Using rotten food to make fertilizer

3) Not be able to irrigate plants with the insecticide, i mean when a plant just need water.

4) Finding a Cow, chickens and others would be cool, easy target for zombies

5) Making hay

 

Cooking:

1) The use of preserves (with boiled water or vinegar)

2) Making vinegar from grapes or wine (so i can use better the preserves)

3) Making cheese from milk

3) Making dried vegetables

 

Combat:

1) I liked, simple, real and effective, i just think that the skill progression should be different.

2) Creating a stats called humanity, if you kill a lot of zombies in a short period of time constantly you lose it, and the more you lose it the harder is to negotiate, communicate with npcs or even other players. And to rise your humanity again you must send some time with npcs, talking, chitchat (something like reading a skill book), play cards, domino, or whatever other activity.

3) A charge attack with an weapon, or a running through zombies (bullrush) sounds cool and dangerous (like a last resort move).

 

Something that could help the endgame is dividing more the weapons in skill progression, in game we just have two kinds of melee skills and one of ranged. Maybe dividing by specific weapon name, and being able to spend skills to improve durability, attack speed, attack stamina, attack damage, knockback power, decapitation chance (mutilation on zombies). For ranged weapons, attack speed, reload speed, weapon durability, hit chance, headshot chance. Each point could make an slight improve, that in time reaches a maximum.

 

Surviving:

The game has a focus on finding tools, gathering resources, avoiding natural hazards and zombies.

 

About tools, and finding then:

 

1) If you store gas, it last only a few months, then it gets spoiled.

2) Survival should be a crafting skill, so the higher is the skill, i could be able to build some of the survival gear, like the campfire, tent kit and so on, and the better the skill, the better the new equipment made.

3) Wet towel could be somehow dry, by being near of a fireplace or hand on a clothes line.

4) About weapons, plz add a geologist long cable igneous hammer, very resist stuff, and deadly =D

 

Carpentry 1) 3) 4) 7) 9), Cooking 1) 3)(drying food), all those are already ingame or planned for a near future

Carpentry:
2) I like a lot ! that would prevent us from destroying and re-build all over again when we want to "upgrade" our safehouse.
6) I like  A LOT.  Right now we can build wooden pillars but they're pretty much useless. Imo they should be mandatory to build upper floors, balcony etc... It feels silly that we're able to build long wooden bridges floating into the air.

8) Yep ! I think that's planned but I'm not sure. But ladders are surely a must have.

Farming

Cool ideas ! I haven't looked much into farming myself.

 

Combat

2) That's actually in but not fonctional yet. It's not called "humanity" tho ! It's your character sanity (the first moodlet is 'bored'). If you stay away from social interaction and stuffs to entertain your character, you slowly fall into madness. But yeah, it's not fonctional yet ;p

 

Surviving

yep good ideas as well.

 

Caring about wounds, like removing a bullet would be a great thing to be added in the game, or adding a skill called First Aid, that you unlock more and more healing techniques and tools, like making splints, crutches and etc.

 

About the Sledgehammer, the weight isn't the problem, the real problem is that it destroys walls too fast. The same goes with an axe on trees and doors.

 

Yeah carring about wounds and removing bullets is the kind of medical skills that only someone starting with a medical job could have access to imo ! Not everyone should be able to unlock it, unless someone with that skill can teach someone else how to do it. (I think that's planned, teaching people).

 

And yeah I realize now the issue of the sledge isn't the weight but the speed at which it destroys walls.