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More Downsides to Guns


Etsamaru

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I was thinking it would be cool if guns when fired, especially often, would lower your characters sound perception for a few game minutes or longer. Thinking about how loud the gunshots must be might not be so good on your ears and cause a ringing, especially if you are pumping out shotgun shells. I was also thinking about having guns cause minor pain, because most people don't know how to properly handle and hold guns. Causing injury until you have practiced enough to know how to handle them.

 

- Sound Penalty

- Slight Damage at low levels.

- Attracts Hordes - Already does.

- Chance of hand wrist arm injury. (Unless you have marksman perk or something.)

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I was thinking it would be cool if guns when fired, especially often, would lower your characters sound perception for a few game minutes or longer. Thinking about how loud the gunshots must be might not be so good on your ears and cause a ringing, especially if you are pumping out shotgun shells. I was also thinking about having guns cause minor pain, because most people don't know how to properly handle and hold guns. Causing injury until you have practiced enough to know how to handle them.

 

- Sound Penalty

- Slight Damage at low levels.

- Attracts Hordes - Already does.

- Chance of hand wrist arm injury. (Unless you have marksman perk or something.)

 

 

Most people may not know how to fire a gun but most people aren't stupid enough to manage to cause themselves injury with a gun.

The sound penalty is BS, I have gone to a gun range without ear phones or whatever and had no issues, and I believe rathlord stated a few weeks ago about it not being as bad as people think.

 

At the very least guns should be missing more often until your skill goes up, other then that they are plenty balanced.

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I've never heard or fired a gun in real life, only played ArmA with the ACE mod and the only weapon that gives that 'ringing' sound (besides a grenade) is an MG.

So obviously I don't have any experience but I think an MG makes more sense. An MG should never be in PZ so no sound penalty from me.

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Depends which gun really, I fired a 30aut6 without earplugs and i can assure you it doesn't feel good afterwards. On the other hand i fired an entire mag with an AR15 without earplugs and was fine. I like this idea as long as it is balanced right. 

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To be honest the sound from guns varies tremendously- I don't use a 30-06 regularly, but my dad shoots one and I've used it on occasion and it's not half bad. My .308 isn't bad, either. It really depends on the specific model, the bullets you're using, etc. The reality is, though, that unless you're in a very enclosed space you're not going to notice the sound.

 

As for the injury- it's quite possible to ding yourself up shooting a gun if you don't know how, but other than very rare cases you're not going to suffer any performance issues from the experience and probably not worth adding them into the game.

 

The first time I shot a deer (not the first time I'd fired a gun) I had my eye too close to the scope. When I pulled the trigger, the top of the scope clipped my brow bone right at my eyelash. I didn't notice at the time (was completely caught up in the adrenaline) but it hurt later when I calmed down.

 

The first time my cousin fired a 12 gauge shotgun, she held it away from her shoulder about an inch. When she pulled the trigger, it (obviously) slammed back into her shoulder pretty hard. Without it braced, it smacked her good and she got a huge bruise from it.

 

But still, none of those is really going to change your ability to fight or survive in the apocalypse- truly minor worries.

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Guns are already balance in game imo. They need ammunition, they attract hordes, and they are rare. Those are enough downsides in my opnion. 95% of the time i use solely melee weapons, heck the only time i used a range weapon was to clear out a giant horde in front of a warehouse I wanted to raid or to take out crawlers when use to roll with kitchen knives.

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Well the only gun i have fired is the HK G3 in my military service and boy was it loud. It was in a wide open area, firing with 9 more people to my right, and i wore earplugs ffs (only 9-10 rounds each of us though and on semi). My right ear was ringing for some minutes after. I am not saying guns should or shouldn't affect hearing ingame. I am just offering my experience to you.

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Automatic weaponry tends to be a bit louder than otherwise if I recall correctly, due to gases and sound being channeled in different ways (notably back towards the person firing). Since we won't be seeing that kind of firearm in the game most likely, that shouldn't be an issue.

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Could probably be a lot louder if you fire inside a room? Less likely to be heard at a distance, but it makes your ears ring for a little bit and it's harder to hear the zeds that do come a calling.

 

Other than that though I don't think there's really much else to do.

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Could probably be a lot louder if you fire inside a room? Less likely to be heard at a distance, but it makes your ears ring for a little bit and it's harder to hear the zeds that do come a calling.

 

Other than that though I don't think there's really much else to do.

 

Decreasing the player's perception a bit for a second or two after firing a gun indoors wouldn't be too bad. I like this.

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If rifles/longer ranged firearms are introduced, and you take the perception hit when shooting indoors, you'd find yourself left with a dilemma. Fire from the window, to reduce the hearing-loss penalty at the risk of being seen by your target, or fire from well back in the room like a good little sniper and risk not hearing the zombies scratching at the door?

 

Me like even more :D

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As someone who does have experience with firearms, I tentatively like the points made by the OP.

 

If you choose the 'weak' penalties I could even see bruising yourself when firing the shotgun with no experience.

 

But with regards to sound, there are a lot of different factors. You could fire a .223 out of a rifle on an open field and have no issues with hearing impairment, but indoors would be problematic and potentially disorienting depending on the acoustics. Start getting to larger caliber weapons and being close to any structures (especially metal) then you could say your auditory perception would be impaired. 

 

Also to the length of the barrel plays a factor into how you perceive the report, so you could say the sawed off shotgun would be more disorienting than an unmodified model.

 

But I think the penalty of already having zombies hone in from all around is enough to quell the usage of firearms when alternative options exist. Let's not make firearms even more problematic then they are now, at least until NPCs come into the picture.

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If you choose the 'weak' penalties I could even see bruising yourself when firing the shotgun with no experience.

 

This doesn't really seem worth the time to add at all, though. I mean, my cousin was something like 12 when she shot that 12 gauge (and it's a mean kicker, too, a Ruger Red Label over-and-under). If a 12 year old girl can walk away completely unhindered aside from some mild bruising, I don't think any grown man or woman is going to be hurt enough by it to affect their chances of survival in an adrenaline-fueled zombie apocalypse.

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If you choose the 'weak' penalties I could even see bruising yourself when firing the shotgun with no experience.

 

This doesn't really seem worth the time to add at all, though. I mean, my cousin was something like 12 when she shot that 12 gauge (and it's a mean kicker, too, a Ruger Red Label over-and-under). If a 12 year old girl can walk away completely unhindered aside from some mild bruising, I don't think any grown man or woman is going to be hurt enough by it to affect their chances of survival in an adrenaline-fueled zombie apocalypse.

 

 

Honestly I don't believe any of the ideas proposed should be included until NPCs are a thing.

But if someone isn't used to the kick, if nothing else maybe their accuracy is lowered after the first shock as they come to expect that sort of harsh recoil. 

I've seen idiots who bought a S&W 500, after the first shot they can't help but try to compensate for the recoil which lowers their accuracy.

 

You're right that a bit of bruising shouldn't nix a survival scenario though.

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Honestly I don't believe any of the ideas proposed should be included until NPCs are a thing.

But if someone isn't used to the kick, if nothing else maybe their accuracy is lowered after the first shock as they come to expect that sort of harsh recoil. 

 

 

Yup I could totally get behind this.

 

Edit: In general I think accuracy needs to be vastly lowered anyways.

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Honestly I don't believe any of the ideas proposed should be included until NPCs are a thing.

But if someone isn't used to the kick, if nothing else maybe their accuracy is lowered after the first shock as they come to expect that sort of harsh recoil. 

 

 

Yup I could totally get behind this.

 

Edit: In general I think accuracy needs to be vastly lowered anyways.

 

 

I'd like to see a greater accuracy disparity between levels of proficiency, but what I'd really like to see is a sort of 'charge' system for firearms. 

You immediately fire after aiming, accuracy is only good enough for really close zombies. But the longer you hold it, sorta like Resident Evil Outbreak with the cop, you'll gain an accuracy boost as you fine tune your aim. About 3-5 seconds to max your accuracy for a single shot.

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I'm personally against that, if we are talking about realistic combat options just waiting and looking at the target wont' increase your aim. Once you have the target completely locked and your gun leveled just sitting there pointing your gun at the target and squinting wont' do anything to help you aim.

 

The only two guns in the game so far are the shotgun and a pistol. With a shotgun if your doing this your using it wrong. And the entire point of a pistol is to be efficient. The only gun where time really comes into play noticeable is a sniper/longrange rifles seeing you need to do some minute leveling adjustments to it to actually hit anything.

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I'm personally against that, if we are talking about realistic combat options just waiting and looking at the target wont' increase your aim. Once you have the target completely locked and your gun leveled just sitting there pointing your gun at the target and squinting wont' do anything to help you aim.

For an inexperienced shooter, taking an extra second or two to try and steady your aim will certainly increase your accuracy. No one can just whip their piece out and shoot a zed in the face without first taking a second or two to line up the shot and try to steady their grip. Only the absolute best of marksmen can pull out quick shots like that and that's because of the skill acquired from sending thousands of bullets worth of training.

 

So I should think that this "charging period" would need three phases. The first phase is taking the stance, the second phase is lining up the shot, and the third phase is steadying their grip. Say around five seconds for all of that together for an average shooter. More for someone inexperienced and less for someone with a good deal of skill. Any amount of time after that would probably just be a waste.

 

If you need to pull off a quick shot to try and hit an active threat like a human shooting at you, you might be able to score a crippling hit just be aiming and flinging several shots at them in rapid succession, but you'd be less likely to score a killing blow and more likely just buy yourself enough time to hightail it.

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Guns are already balance in game imo. They need ammunition, they attract hordes, and they are rare. Those are enough downsides in my opnion. 95% of the time i use solely melee weapons, heck the only time i used a range weapon was to clear out a giant horde in front of a warehouse I wanted to raid or to take out crawlers when use to roll with kitchen knives.

 

I think guns are overpowered.  The shotgun is especially OP.  One blast from a 12 gauge shotgun is not going to take out half a dozen zombies.  The pistol is too accurate and the shotgun kills too many per shot in my opinion. 

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I'm personally against that, if we are talking about realistic combat options just waiting and looking at the target wont' increase your aim. Once you have the target completely locked and your gun leveled just sitting there pointing your gun at the target and squinting wont' do anything to help you aim.

The only two guns in the game so far are the shotgun and a pistol. With a shotgun if your doing this your using it wrong. And the entire point of a pistol is to be efficient. The only gun where time really comes into play noticeable is a sniper/longrange rifles seeing you need to do some minute leveling adjustments to it to actually hit anything.

I get the distinct feeling you've never shot a gun in your life. As Kajin said, taking a few seconds to aim with the pistol is always good and it is just as true with a shotgun. If you're shooting skeet or trap, or rabbit hunting, sure you take quick shots- out if necessity. But turkey or deer hunting you always take a few seconds to line up the shot, and that gives you tons more accuracy. I get so frustrated with people on the internet talking about guns who have no idea what they're talking about.
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I'm personally against that, if we are talking about realistic combat options just waiting and looking at the target wont' increase your aim. Once you have the target completely locked and your gun leveled just sitting there pointing your gun at the target and squinting wont' do anything to help you aim.

For an inexperienced shooter, taking an extra second or two to try and steady your aim will certainly increase your accuracy. No one can just whip their piece out and shoot a zed in the face without first taking a second or two to line up the shot and try to steady their grip. Only the absolute best of marksmen can pull out quick shots like that and that's because of the skill acquired from sending thousands of bullets worth of training.

 

So I should think that this "charging period" would need three phases. The first phase is taking the stance, the second phase is lining up the shot, and the third phase is steadying their grip. Say around five seconds for all of that together for an average shooter. More for someone inexperienced and less for someone with a good deal of skill. Any amount of time after that would probably just be a waste.

 

If you need to pull off a quick shot to try and hit an active threat like a human shooting at you, you might be able to score a crippling hit just be aiming and flinging several shots at them in rapid succession, but you'd be less likely to score a killing blow and more likely just buy yourself enough time to hightail it.

 

though five seconds sound a little long (no i never shot a gun) the whole "phase thing" sounds pretty realistic. (maybe there would be a "Harcore" setting for Handling right next to the Reloading option).

What about following shots? i mean you are already in the right stance, so wouldn't phase one fall away in this case?

 

and like said, 5 seconds sounds a little long for an "average person". As i read 5 seconds i instantly thought about "people that never saw a gun...not even in movies" ^^

leveling the right skills should make you able to take the "quick shots" and shoot more accurate while moving i think

 

just my 2 cents

 

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Honestly, when I'm out target shooting I take easily 5 seconds to line up shots with a pistol. You have no idea how ridiculously hard it is to hit things with pistols, especially at considerable range. It's hard. You have to make sure the gun lines up along your eye towards the target without being canted too far up or down, you have to get the lead sight in between the two rear sights (if using that kinda set-up), you have to account for your hands shaking, and you have to squeeze the trigger gently. People who jerk the trigger like they're having a seizure (which is what most people who have never been instructed on shooting do) would probably never hit a target 20 feet away with an average pistol. People underestimate how challenging it is to shoot things with a pistol so hard.

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