zombie ai Raising Horde - An important balancing factor

[GG Cannon]

A setting in both Sandbox and MP Server settings which has proven a serious issue to me are the "Rally Group" settings.
For a better start on the first few days of the game, with friends that started playing for the first time, the standard Survivor Rally Group of 20 zombies is too absurd a number for people not used to the game starting in Urban areas considering it is still the start of the zombie apocalypse.
For that reason, I've been setting the Rally group sizes small between 3 and 9, but closer together, for a more organic zombie behavior.

Yet this brings another problem that is that later in the game, those groups are too small and the game becomes somewhat easy after we are properly equipped, with a base and vehicles and after killing most of the zombies around the map (since I set spawn rates for 25% every in-game week).

 

Growing Issue

I'd like to suggest and request, as a balancing feature, for the Rally groups to also grow with the zombie population or even for the possibility of rally groups to continue growing after zombie population has already reached its peak at the "Population Peak day".

This would require: 

1. Change the "Rally Group Size" into "Starting Rally Group Size"
   Defines the size of groups at Day 1
    
2. Creation of "Final Rally Group Size"
   Defines the size of Rally groups at Day X set below
    
3. Creation of "Final Rally Group Size Day"
   Defines which day is Day X where rally groups will reach their final density.
    
4. Creation of "Rally Group Size Starting Variability"
   A variable that slightly randomizes the size of the Rally groups.
   Example: With a Rally Group Size of 10 and Rally Group Variability of 3, the actual Rally Group Sizes would vary randomly between 7 to 13.
    
5. Creation of "Rally Group Size Final Variability"
   The variability it is gonna have when it reaches the "Final Rally Group Size Day", so that you can also make this variability grow or shrink over time.

Another thing to consider would be the same treatment for Rally Group Separation:

1. Change the "Rally Group Separation" into "Starting Rally Group Separation"
   Defines the separation of different zombie groups on Day 1.
    
2. Creation of "Final Rally Group Separation"
   These would allow for the space between the groups to be regulated over time, so that either different groups would get closer together or farther apart over time.
    
3. Creation of "Final Rally Group Separation Day"
   Defines which day is Day X where the Group Separation takes its final value.
    
4. Creation of "Starting Rally Group Separation Variability"
   This would allow for the space between different zombie groups to have some variation where some groups stay closer together while other groups are farther apart, making it a more organic behavior.
    
5. Creation of "Final Rally Group Separation Variability"
   This would allow for the the variation of space between zombie groups to either increase, adding more randomness or decrease making them more standardized.

Maybe even the same for Rally Group Radius:

1. Change the "Rally Group Radius" into "Starting Rally Group Radius"
   Defines the spread of different zombie members of the same groups to each other on Day 1.
    
2. Creation of "Final Rally Group Radius"
   This would allow for the members of zombie groups to either stick closer together or drift farther apart from other members of the same group as time passes.
    
3. Creation of "Final Rally Group Radius Day" or using the same days as the "Final Rally Group Separation Day", so that Separation and Radius change at the same time naming it as a single "Final Rally Group Separation and Radius Day".
   Having this day be separate from the "Max Rally Group Size Day" is useful since it allows you to set so that the spacing between the groups and between members of the same group either continues to change long after the groups have reached their maximum density or that it reaches its final state long before the groups finish growing up.
    
4. Creation of "Starting Rally Group Radius Variability"
   This would allow for the space between zombie members of the same groups to have some variation where some groups have members stay closer together with each other while other groups members are farther apart from each other, making it a even more organic behavior.
    
5. Creation of "Final Rally Group Radius Variability"
   This would allow for the the variation of space between zombies members of the same group to either increase, adding more randomness or decrease making them more standardized.

With these new variables, the zombie population could start more spread apart in smaller groups and with time they would form bigger groups and those groups would grow closer and closer together, becoming even bigger hordes.

 

This means that on day 1, you could have groups as small as only 3 to 9 zombies somewhat close together but far apart enough from the members of their own groups that you can bait a few and trim them down with a good spacing between them, making fighting those groups absolutely possible if you are careful, but a few days later, they could be groups as big as 20 zombies, close to one another enough that they always move like a horde and, depending on your settings, 1 year in-game later and the groups could be as big as 1000 zombies moving as a mass of bodies with little space between those huge hordes, making any city area that you haven't been clearing constantly be a real hell.

 

Suggested Balancing
 

For survivor difficulty, I would suggest that the rally groups settings start at size 7 with a variability of 2 (between 5 to 9) zombies on day 1 and grows to 30 with a variability of 10 (from 20 to 40) zombies by peak day 28, this would allow for the standard survivor difficulty to have a true feeling that population of zombies is getting worse and worse, up until it becomes worse than it currently is, but the starting of a game will be much more manageable in the first few days as if a quiet before the storm.

While in apocalipse it could start in the current 20 with a variability of 5 (from 15 to 25) on day 1 and grow to 75 with a variability of 25 (from 50 to 100) after 4 months in, so every month the groups would be around 15 zombies bigger, but every 2 to 3 days, give or take, the groups would grow an average of 1 zombie, making it a real apocalipse scenario.

 

The Important Questions

 

• Is it somewhat realistic?
  Yes, it makes sense that in the beginning of the zombie apocalipse at day 1, population would be thinner than 1 month in or 1 year in, and those groups of zombies should grow with time, not just the total amount of zombies around the map. It also makes sense for there to be some variability between the groups, since not all groups of zombies would be the same size nor behave exactly alike with perfect spacing between them.
   
• Does it fit with the spirit of PZ?
  Yes, this is but an effective balancing method but perfectly aligned with the spirit of PZ in the sense that the situation with the zombies grows worse and worse with time.
   
• Would it make the game too easy?
  No. It wouldn't make it neither too easy nor too hard, but more balanced, starting easier (in standard survivor difficulty) and becoming harder and harder with time.
  For MP servers and Sandbox difficulty it would also give some control for the game's difficulty to grow as the ability and equipment of the survivors also grow.
   
• Would it require rewriting the entire game (like changing the camera view, for instance)
  No. Not rewriting, but just adding new variables and renaming a few existing variables regarding the zombies AI and adapting functions.
  I would believe that the amount of coding needed to add this to the game is so minimal that it could possibly be possible to fully code and add it in the very next unstable patch, since it only involves very few variables and adding those variables to sandbox and server settings.
   
• Would it add enough to the gameplay that it would be worth taking the time to add?
  Yes, not only would it make the standard Survivor difficulty more balanced, it would add the sense of growing problem as the time passes and give the world a sense of organic growth in the zombie behavior besides more variation to the groups behavior, making every group of zombies seem more unique from one another, with them organizing in bigger groups as their numbers also grow.
   
• For zombies: Does it fit at least somewhat into Romero/Brooks zombie lore (the basis for 'proper' zombies)?
  Yes, it is actually more aligned with the Romero Zombies, since "Although initially devoid of both thought and memory, later works of Romero have shown zombies capable of learning through a process of trial and error." [Romero Zombies - Zombiefandom]
  In this case, the concept of sticking together and forming groups would be a learned behavior over time and copying other zombies around, while those that stick together from the beginning are from faded memories from their previous life, sticking to the zombies of friends or family, since "There have been instances of the zombies seemingly recalling memories of their past lives and performing familiar tasks" [Also found in Romero Zombies - Zombiefandom].

Edited November 3, 2022 by GG Cannon

[Papa Juliet Whiskey]

I'm always trying to find a way to get just the right zed population at the right time, and as it stands with current sandbox options, can be a little bit of a balancing act.

 

A possible option may be to leave the rally option mostly alone, and maybe just spread them out more(radius between groups), set the starting population lower, with a longer time to peak population, with perhaps a higher peak ad well, then we set to time for zombie redistribution much higher, to the tune of days, as opposed to hours. Haven't tried this, so I don't know how it'll work out, but if I'm not mistaken, it takes zeds time to form groups, and with a higher distribution time, maybe the starting pop will be more scattered, gradually ramping up over time?

 

No idea if that'll even work out alright, as I haven't tried it out yet, but may offer a stop gap until such a feature is introduced by devs/modders.

[GG Cannon]

On 11/3/2022 at 2:50 PM, Papa Juliet Whiskey said:

I'm always trying to find a way to get just the right zed population at the right time, and as it stands with current sandbox options, can be a little bit of a balancing act.

 

A possible option may be to leave the rally option mostly alone, and maybe just spread them out more(radius between groups), set the starting population lower, with a longer time to peak population, with perhaps a higher peak ad well, then we set to time for zombie redistribution much higher, to the tune of days, as opposed to hours. Haven't tried this, so I don't know how it'll work out, but if I'm not mistaken, it takes zeds time to form groups, and with a higher distribution time, maybe the starting pop will be more scattered, gradually ramping up over time?

 

No idea if that'll even work out alright, as I haven't tried it out yet, but may offer a stop gap until such a feature is introduced by devs/modders.

The most balanced setting I found, which also proved to be the most fun to me, was this:
 

 

To explain a bit why each value:
Population starts at the standard and in the course of 3 lunar months (28 days each) it raises to 4 times its initial value. So every 28 days it raises 1 integer (start at 1.0, 28th day is 2.0, 56th day is 3.0 and 84th day is 4.0)

For the respawn, 168 hours is exactly 7 days, for both respawn and respawn unseen so both cell and chunk respawn 25% of their population every week (100% every 28 days). 
24 hours (1 day) for migration.

And finally, with the group sizes set to 5 with a radius of the group to 10, the concentration of zombies in a very compact manner is reduced, but since the group separation (distance between groups) is only 5, multiple groups may be in range of each other, forming "mega-groups".

This creates a situation that, in low population early on (1.0) you can find small groups of zombies spread apart easy enough that you can take care of them even alone, but as the population raises over the months up to the max (4.0) you will start to find mega-groups of dozens of zombies covering very wide areas.

They are spread enough that you can trim a bit, but can be close enough that you will call a massive horde in your direction, and alarms and shooting will call unthinkable hordes your way.

This gives the zombies a very organic distribution with not so hive-mind behavior yet still very prone to creating really massive hordes.

At 4.0 population, just being around a single street may already get you a pretty sizeable horde.

Edited November 5, 2022 by GG Cannon