Snakes, Venomous and Otherwise

[Bullet_Magnate]

Inspired by a comment in another wildlife-related thread.  Figured this deserved its own discussion.  

 

One form of wildlife that would definitely be relevant, but that I haven't seen in future content discussion, is snakes.  

 

Snakes are definitely relevant from a realism perspective because there are four types of venomous snakes in Kentucky, which cause a significant number of bite injuries each year.  

 

In addition, even non-venomous snakes could certainly be included as a source of meat. 

 

EDIT:  Apparently one of these snakes (the pigmy rattlesnake) is NOT found in the part of Kentucky where PZ takes place.   So, that's 3 types of venomous snake that could appear in-game.  

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Bullet_Magnate
fixing typo

[WrittenInBlood]

I wonder if it's possible to have some creatures visible only in foraging mode. Would be good not only for snakes, but also rats, frogs and other small meat sources. 

I think two kinds of snakes will be enough - regular snake, that can be found, killed and eaten, and rattlesnake, that will be able to hear without going in forage mode.

Imagine this - you run from the horde through the filed, and hear a rattle. Do you risk running further, or slow down and search for this damn snake, when zombies are closing in? Events like this is why I keep coming back to Zomboid. 

 

+1 for snakes in game.

[Bullet_Magnate]

6 hours ago, WrittenInBlood said:

I wonder if it's possible to have some creatures visible only in foraging mode. Would be good not only for snakes, but also rats, frogs and other small meat sources. 

I think two kinds of snakes will be enough - regular snake, that can be found, killed and eaten, and rattlesnake, that will be able to hear without going in forage mode.

 

I like these ideas, but I do note that two of the venomous snakes (copperhead and cottonmouth) don't appear to be rattlers.  

 

This is probably one of those moments where a fine balance needs to be struck to create a system that "feels real" without getting bogged down in too much detail ... 

 

 

[Tails]

very nice idea just need some antivenom to solve this problem in case you get bitten by these venomous snakes.

[Bullet_Magnate]

18 hours ago, Tails said:

very nice idea just need some antivenom to solve this problem in case you get bitten by these venomous snakes.

 

It'd be cool if they added it as a findable item, but I wonder if a layman could realistically administer it ... that is, would you need a high First Aid level to even use it without potentially making the problem worse?

[razab]

I really like your idea of adding venomous snakes to the game. Also would like it if all different types of those snakes occurring in Kentucky are added. I am just thinking about how awesome the depiction of diverse wildlife in Red Dead Redemption 2 has been. So, why not a similar or even more detailed depiction in Project Zomboid?

 

The antivenom idea is also great! But then, we probably need a different one for each type of snake. Should be possible to find them in pharmacies, doctor's offices or hospitals ofc. Not sure about the situation in the US but afaik, at least in Australia, doctors, pharmacies and hospitals usually store various types of antivenom.

 

Although I don't think that getting bitten by a snake should somehow become a "major feature" of the game, this could become a very nice and immersive little detail. Also agree with the OP that snake bites are worth considering because they are not so uncommon in the US if you have a look at the statistics. There are between 7000 and 8000 per year but only around 5 fatal cases, probably due to the availability of antivenom. (as an additional source, see here: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/snakes/default.html )

Edited August 3, 2022 by razab

[Bullet_Magnate]

7 minutes ago, razab said:

I am just thinking about how awesome the depiction of diverse wildlife in Red Dead Redemption 2 has been. So, why not a similar or even more detailed depiction in Project Zomboid?

 

That would be really cool.  Maybe as an initial stage they could just have three categories of snake:  non-venomous, venomous, and rattlesnake (i.e., venomous but with an appropriate warning sound effect on approach).  It'd be pretty straightforward, I'd think, to later add the variations in color, name, flavor text, etc., that would define individual species.  

 

Sheesh, can you imagine your character walking through the deep forest in PZ and suddenly hearing a loud rattlesnake sound from somewhere ahead??? :O   Especially if you had some zeds after you ... 

 

 

8 minutes ago, razab said:

 

The antivenom idea is also great! But then, we probably need a different one for each type of snake. Should be possible to find them in pharmacies, doctor's offices or hospitals ofc. Not sure about the situation in the US but afaik, at least in Australia, doctors, pharmacies and hospitals usually store various types of antivenom.

 

Although I don't think that getting bitten by a snake should somehow become a "major feature" of the game, this could become a very nice and immersive little detail. Also agree with the OP that snake bites are worth considering because they are not so uncommon in the US if you have a look at the statistics. There are between 7000 and 8000 per year but only around 5 fatal cases, probably due to the availability of antivenom. (as an additional source, see here: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/snakes/default.html )

 

Yeah, I do like the idea of antivenom / antivenin, but still think you'd need some medical training to administer / inject the proper dosage.  It's not like you could just pull it out of a fridge in an ER and drink it ...  : )  As for whether places would have it, I suspect in a relatively rural area like Knox County, emergency rooms would have it at least.  

 

And your point about the limited deaths being due to availability of antivenom is a good one.  Obviously antivenom won't be readily available in PZ, which makes snakebite exponentially more dangerous -- and therefore much more worthy of inclusion.  

 

[Irken Empire]

Gosh no! I'm not saying I don't like the idea, it'd be a nice touch to have snakes, but this is an isometric game, there's no way you'd be able to see one from this perspective in a forest like enviroment, maybe in the open fields but otherwise no, It'd be a very unecessery danger factor, although you'd be able to produce your own antivenom in 18 months from larger animals like horses/sheep etc.
Overall it's cool, but not so fair in the isometric view if you know what I mean, devs would need to add tornadoes, flooding, pooping system since it's all relevan and does happen to people of Kentuckey every now and then like snake bites.

[Bullet_Magnate]

8 hours ago, Irken Empire said:

Gosh no! I'm not saying I don't like the idea, it'd be a nice touch to have snakes, but this is an isometric game, there's no way you'd be able to see one from this perspective in a forest like enviroment, maybe in the open fields but otherwise no, It'd be a very unecessery danger factor, although you'd be able to produce your own antivenom in 18 months from larger animals like horses/sheep etc.
Overall it's cool, but not so fair in the isometric view if you know what I mean, devs would need to add tornadoes, flooding, pooping system since it's all relevan and does happen to people of Kentuckey every now and then like snake bites.

 

Well, don't underestimate the devs ... if they think it's worthwhile, I think they'd at least have decent odds of finding a way to incorporate snakes in way that works.  Who knows?   

 

And, yeah, there's definitely a line to be drawn as to what's worth including.  But if the devs are planning to incorporate other common and potentially dangerous wildlife (like bears), I think it would make complete sense to include snakes.  Though they wouldn't be appearing all the time, I'm pretty certain a survivor traversing the Kentucky wilderness would have a *much* greater chance of encountering / getting harmed by a snake rather than a bear.  That alone separates snakes from hazards that are far more rare, difficult to simulate, and/or that cross the line into a not-fun level of micromanagement (which I think covers the tornadoes / flooding / defecation examples).  

 

Not to say your points aren't good, *but* I still think there's a strong case for including snakes as a both a threat and a food source *if* the devs can find a way to make it happen.