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rosedragon

[MP] Movements Lag since Anti-cheat update

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Hello,

 

Since the anti-cheat update, I have been suffering immense movement lag that cause chunks loading so slow for me, esp when riding a vehicle. If I am passenger on other player's vehicle, I will be booted out of the vehicle. I could even experience the same chunk lag if I run too long. I been waiting for bug fixes till this version and apparently this seems going to stay. As seen on bottom right, my ping is stable 200. The server is in Europe while I am in Asia-- while it is not the best location to play, it was playable before the anti-cheat update. I am desperate here, my internet is fine and stable, I want to keep playing with this community. Thank you!

 

 

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Well, does this issue happen on other public servers as well? The anticheat update barely added any extra strain on the server. Meaning it is likely an issue with this specific server / standard lag.

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7 hours ago, Beard said:

Well, does this issue happen on other public servers as well? The anticheat update barely added any extra strain on the server. Meaning it is likely an issue with this specific server / standard lag.

Chunk load issues while driving a car surely got worse after last update

Not sure if it's an anticheat issues or vehicle is being client-side and maybe therefore chunks load with a ping equal to client's ping, causing this issues while having high ping or moving too fast in a vehicle

 

You can test it yourself in your test server using app like LagSwitch to set ping to 100-200 and you will surely experience the chunk load issues while in moving vehicle

Was happening way less often before last udpate

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2 hours ago, SonicSonedit said:

Chunk load issues while driving a car surely got worse after last update

Not sure if it's an anticheat issues or vehicle is being client-side and maybe therefore chunks load with a ping equal to client's ping, causing this issues while having high ping or moving too fast in a vehicle

 

You can test it yourself in your test server using app like LagSwitch to set ping to 100-200 and you will surely experience the chunk load issues while in moving vehicle

Was happening way less often before last udpate

 

Sure, here is me driving a vehicle on a public server, not even our internal test server, but a server you can join yourself with several mods as well. Lagswitch is set to 300 ping, map loads absolutely fine.

I only started feeling the slower map loading at 800 ping, but even that I would consider somewhat playable unless you are driving in a sports car always. And even then 800 ping itself is ridiculous. The conclusion is that no the driving wasn't more stable before any updates as we did not touch the driving or vehicle aspect really. If you are having issues driving it would just be caused by the lag itself, any mods you have or not enough RAM or power assigned to the server.

Below are recordings of 300 and 800 ping tests.
 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Beard said:

we did not touch the driving or vehicle aspect really

You literally made it client-side and as a programmer you should understand the difference and implications. Even worse, driving is not affected by framerate. Which can also cause issue mentioned above.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Beard said:

If you are having issues driving it would just be caused by the lag itself, any mods you have or not enough RAM or power assigned to the server.

Well, neither OP or our team had any issues before vehicles became client-side.

I don't even know what did you intend to fix with it, because de-sync collision happen just like before.

Which is worse now, wrecks can now behave abnormally when client approaches them, including randomly flipping right in front of you because they were clipping and causing a crash. This happened at fresh 47.71 save no mods, Louseville road bridge just past Westpoint.

You can deny claiming that you "changed nothing about vehicles" but in reality you changed a lot with switching local vehicles control to client. It kinda works for zeds, but for vehicles its a total trainwreck.

Edited by SonicSonedit

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Beard is not a programmer. Don't be rude if you want help.

 

The only consequence so far of vehicles being client-side is trailers are a bit floaty again. If you were correct, it'd affect hundreds of thousands of people. We'd get more reports of it than ... well, this is the first since it was released a few days ago.

 

I guess we'll see. But for now, my guess is that you have an abnormally slowly downloading map, slower than that ping justifies frankly.  So I'd assume there's something more going on with your connection, Steam's connection, or the server itself that you're playing on (such as an older mechanical harddrive or running out of RAM).  (Are you both playing on the same server? If so, maybe try a different one and see if the problem is reproduceable elsewhere.)

 

Until we get more people demonstrating this, it's just impossible for us to know. And note, we have testers from around the world playing on our own test server with some pretty awful connections from far-flung lands. We've not seen this. 

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I think directing attention at the anticheat is wrong because it actually improved a lot in this last update and the anticheat came way before. I see improvement with map loading but on any server with more than 10 people its pretty janky still, and having 32 gb for 20 slot server with 12 people on it and 40 ping and seeing this is pretty unmotivating. Engima like myself, I wouldn't of ever said anything until you did for most of us it's "theyre still working on it it's probably best not to say anything it's probably being addressed" is what I've been thinking in the back of my head until people told me things actually get fixed if I come on here and say something. On an empty server little to no issues but actual servers with population you're going to hear real feedback, using redboid as getting feedback is probably not a reliable source as it's pretty dead. I'm surprised these bigger servers I've been on suffering the same issues as most of the community aren't on here saying anything but again probably in the same mindset as me and probably just have it in our heads that you guys are looking to improve this always because there's no way this would be the final product or considered stable enough to be pushed out of beta as is.

 

I think the physics for the cars are now goofy but i do enjoy it much more than before it's cause a lot of entertainment factors more or less. All apart of beta!

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17 minutes ago, RedTab said:

I think directing attention at the anticheat is wrong because it actually improved a lot in this last update and the anticheat came way before. I see improvement with map loading but on any server with more than 10 people its pretty janky still, and having 32 gb for 20 slot server with 12 people on it and 40 ping and seeing this is pretty unmotivating. Engima like myself, I wouldn't of ever said anything until you did for most of us it's "theyre still working on it it's probably best not to say anything it's probably being addressed" is what I've been thinking in the back of my head until people told me things actually get fixed if I come on here and say something. On an empty server little to no issues but actual servers with population you're going to hear real feedback, using redboid as getting feedback is probably not a reliable source as it's pretty dead. I'm surprised these bigger servers I've been on suffering the same issues as most of the community aren't on here saying anything but again probably in the same mindset as me and probably just have it in our heads that you guys are looking to improve this always because there's no way this would be the final product or considered stable enough to be pushed out of beta as is.

 

I think the physics for the cars are now goofy but i do enjoy it much more than before it's cause a lot of entertainment factors more or less. All apart of beta!

 

 

 

I'm not talking about Redboid. We have our own internal testing server. Someone in our testing group has a server going with dozens of people on, as well. We've not seen this.

 

These servers need only 180 MB per player, so I don't know why you'd need 32 GB for 20 or 12. But if you give it too much RAM, it'll just pile the trash in the corner and procrastinate until a significant amount of the heap is used, then run.

 

A mechanical harddrive has a massive performance impact when it comes to streaming the map. Anything older than 2015 or so will rather struggle with it and has been known to cause slow map loading in the past.

 

Of course we want to improve things and this isn't somehow the final version. It seems really odd to imply I'm saying otherwise. What i mean is we can't just, like, take someone's word for it that whatever they think is broken is the cause then fix it, especially if we can't reproduce it. 

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Hi TIS and Beard, Thank you for the responses.

 

To clarify, I am saying anti-cheat update, as in the things happen after that version not specifically that anticheat to blame. I tried other servers, it is difficult to find one that mimic the condition (oversea, bare mods), I do got one that been smooth until this happens (check screenshot). 

 

9 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

I guess we'll see. But for now, my guess is that you have an abnormally slowly downloading map, slower than that ping justifies frankly.  So I'd assume there's something more going on with your connection, Steam's connection, or the server itself that you're playing on (such as an older mechanical harddrive or running out of RAM).  (Are you both playing on the same server? If so, maybe try a different one and see if the problem is reproduceable elsewhere.)

It is likely, I am pulling my hair because I am using the best non-business internet here. I know generally I have high ping to properly play online games outside my region (SE Asia) but mostly it is shooter and MOBA that I can't play proper cause it. When I first try PZ multiplayer, everything seems fine (I played over 20h a week) and things start to downgrade after a few updates... Dunno if that other person plays in same server, I am on TGODZ. The server have selective resets so people can have bases with lots of things, no one else in the server experience what I experience but I am the only one from my country. 

 

I tried other servers. Aussie one seems no problem but I didn't try long. I try this server that is in EU and after an hour or two, I encounter the problem again. It starts with the gray/black screen, then I can't continue my path, I see that my ping goes up to 360ms. I get to safety and log off. Have difficulty to log in once (cant download map) but then I enter smoothly. Ping back to stable 200 but now I keep getting the  gray loading. I recorded most of it:

 

 

 

image_2022-05-26_153400439.png

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Beard is not a programmer. Don't be rude if you want help.

Sorry. I was heated a bit after his comment on matter. I should have posted after cooling my head off, sorry for coming off rude
 

 

 

10 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

I guess we'll see. But for now, my guess is that you have an abnormally slowly downloading map, slower than that ping justifies frankly.  So I'd assume there's something more going on with your connection, Steam's connection, or the server itself that you're playing on (such as an older mechanical harddrive or running out of RAM).  (Are you both playing on the same server? If so, maybe try a different one and see if the problem is reproduceable elsewhere.)

No, I'm not related to OP in a any way. We do not play same server.

As of my server, I host dedicated private server on my personal machine with I7-5820k, with 16gm ram (if I understood startserver64.bat correctly), server and OS (and therefore save data) are on SSD Samsung 860 EVO 1TB.

The average ping of people playing is 50, no packet loss (we tested it).

The chunk load problems very rately occured before, now they occur quite often for client if they drive fast enough, especially if their FPS is low (which happens on Maldro highway for example due to a large amount of zombies on screen).

 

 

10 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

The only consequence so far of vehicles being client-side is trailers are a bit floaty again. If you were correct, it'd affect hundreds of thousands of people. We'd get more reports of it than ... well, this is the first since it was released a few days ago.

 

They are not just floaty, tire friction now drops substantially while turning while towing, it did drop before, but not to such degree. As you can see in the video, van basically looses all of it's friction while turning and towing another van, this did not happen before update (video is vanilla no mods) https://youtu.be/13DP6FFvDVE?t=28

This tire friction loss also causes car not gaining enough speed/pushing power to even push away a few zeds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjbm6L6YC9U

For some reason, Heavy/Large vehicles are affected by this much more than regular ones.

 

As of reports, yes, I myself surprised that so few report were made. Maybe most people don't take vehicle handling to extreme as we do. We oftenly maneuver through large hordes of zombies (spawn mutiplayer 3.0, 6 months in save) with cars that are not tanks, but rather regular vanilla-like vehicles, so changes of vehicle handling are very noticeable and can result in death easily.

 

Please try reproducing these bugs in video. You will see this indeed happens.

 

P.S.

Does client also take control of neutral cars (e.g. wrecks)? If car wrecks were clipping they start flipping out when you approach them while driving a car. This did not happen before update either. This mostly affects mod cars since they can spawn clipping wrecks due to large car size, but can also be reproduced in vanilla with Chevalier Step Van, if two Step Vans spawn in samw wreck with a certain angle and become clipped into each other.

 

 

Edited by SonicSonedit

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1 hour ago, rosedragon said:

Hi TIS and Beard, Thank you for the responses.

 

To clarify, I am saying anti-cheat update, as in the things happen after that version not specifically that anticheat to blame. I tried other servers, it is difficult to find one that mimic the condition (oversea, bare mods), I do got one that been smooth until this happens (check screenshot). 

 

It is likely, I am pulling my hair because I am using the best non-business internet here. I know generally I have high ping to properly play online games outside my region (SE Asia) but mostly it is shooter and MOBA that I can't play proper cause it. When I first try PZ multiplayer, everything seems fine (I played over 20h a week) and things start to downgrade after a few updates... Dunno if that other person plays in same server, I am on TGODZ. The server have selective resets so people can have bases with lots of things, no one else in the server experience what I experience but I am the only one from my country. 

 

I tried other servers. Aussie one seems no problem but I didn't try long. I try this server that is in EU and after an hour or two, I encounter the problem again. It starts with the gray/black screen, then I can't continue my path, I see that my ping goes up to 360ms. I get to safety and log off. Have difficulty to log in once (cant download map) but then I enter smoothly. Ping back to stable 200 but now I keep getting the  gray loading. I recorded most of it:

 

 

 

image_2022-05-26_153400439.png

I think this is just down to where you're connecting from vs. where the servers you're trying to connect to is.   TGODZ extremely far from you, for example. Australia is far closer.

 

It might also be the steam relay picking a more distant server and shunting traffic through it, but it's very difficult to test this unless you yourself have a distant server or can find other -nosteam servers to test on. 

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1 hour ago, SonicSonedit said:

Sorry. I was heated a bit after his comment on matter. I should have posted after cooling my head off, sorry for coming off rude
 

 

 

No, I'm not related to OP in a any way. We do not play same server.

As of my server, I host dedicated private server on my personal machine with I7-5820k, with 16gm ram (if I understood startserver64.bat correctly), server and OS (and therefore save data) are on SSD Samsung 860 EVO 1TB.

The average ping of people playing is 50, no packet loss (we tested it).

The chunk load problems very rately occured before, now they occur quite often for client if they drive fast enough, especially if their FPS is low (which happens on Maldro highway for example due to a large amount of zombies on screen).

 

 

 

They are not just floaty, tire friction now drops substantially while turning while towing, it did drop before, but not to such degree. As you can see in the video, van basically looses all of it's friction while turning and towing another van, this did not happen before update (video is vanilla no mods) https://youtu.be/13DP6FFvDVE?t=28

This tire friction loss also causes car not gaining enough speed/pushing power to even push away a few zeds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjbm6L6YC9U

For some reason, Heavy/Large vehicles are affected by this much more than regular ones.

 

As of reports, yes, I myself surprised that so few report were made. Maybe most people don't take vehicle handling to extreme as we do. We oftenly maneuver through large hordes of zombies (spawn mutiplayer 3.0, 6 months in save) with cars that are not tanks, but rather regular vanilla-like vehicles, so changes of vehicle handling are very noticeable and can result in death easily.

 

Please try reproducing these bugs in video. You will see this indeed happens.

 

P.S.

Does client also take control of neutral cars (e.g. wrecks)? If car wrecks were clipping they start flipping out when you approach them while driving a car. This did not happen before update either. This mostly affects mod cars since they can spawn clipping wrecks due to large car size, but can also be reproduced in vanilla with Chevalier Step Van, if two Step Vans spawn in samw wreck with a certain angle and become clipped into each other.

 

 

We do not recommend people play with high zombie pop in mp. It'll naturally balloon what has to be synced.

 

The vehicles gaining friction (becoming slower), I'm not sure about. The box van is one of the worst performing vehicles in the game, for example. Several of the vehicles used to tow are also at odd angles (which matters quite a bit in pz) to the towing vehicle. The turns are so tight that the van behind you would also be at an extreme angle. Not saying there's nothing to this and we'll certainly look into it, but it looks pretty normal to me n the footage.

 

We can't really offer support for mods, unfortunately. iirc modder would have had do manually insert them into the wreck scenes, so they can probably change the position to avoid collisions, as well.  (Mods can also have a huge impact on performance. Think if a mod is checking every tile that loads, for example. Depending on what it does, that can be extremely costly.) Edit: Yeah, doesn't look like modders have much control over VehicleStories. We'll probably have to add something to allow modders to "pad" vehicles in some way, unless there's a clearer glitch, to avoid clipping. It might be best to turn off vehicle stories in the sandbox options to avoid weirdness for now. 

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6 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

We do not recommend people play with high zombie pop in mp. It'll naturally balloon what has to be synced.

TGODZ run with high zombie pop, it is the only way the game be challenging (while sprinters can teleport around in mp aka desync). While the other Europe server I tried... it was low pop zombies as I drive from Riverside to Louiseville. It is on LV that is by default is high zombie pop that I disconnect and re-experience the chunk lag. 

 

Is there anything else I can do beside getting my own super fast super stable satellite internet? 

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6 minutes ago, rosedragon said:

TGODZ run with high zombie pop, it is the only way the game be challenging (while sprinters can teleport around in mp aka desync). While the other Europe server I tried... it was low pop zombies as I drive from Riverside to Louiseville. It is on LV that is by default is high zombie pop that I disconnect and re-experience the chunk lag. 

 

Is there anything else I can do beside getting my own super fast super stable satellite internet? 

 

Aside from playing a closer server, probably not much you can do.

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On 5/26/2022 at 5:59 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

 

Aside from playing a closer server, probably not much you can do.

tried news server near me (Aussie), that just open today. High ping but not many mods. Still have the chunk loading thing. Can you please at least recheck? It wasn't like this when MP first come out. :'( 

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On 5/26/2022 at 1:39 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

We do not recommend people play with high zombie pop in mp. It'll naturally balloon what has to be synced.

 

The vehicles gaining friction (becoming slower), I'm not sure about. The box van is one of the worst performing vehicles in the game, for example. Several of the vehicles used to tow are also at odd angles (which matters quite a bit in pz) to the towing vehicle. The turns are so tight that the van behind you would also be at an extreme angle. Not saying there's nothing to this and we'll certainly look into it, but it looks pretty normal to me n the footage.

 

As a coder myself I clearly understand why these cases can cause issues. Still, server-side vehicle control somehow used to smoothen out the experience so far, with such issues only surfacing quite rarely. Now this is a common occurance.

 

Also, just wondering what you use to sync vehicles for other clients when one is broadcasting? Do you use ping+timestamp based linear interpolation to calculate other player vehicle movement while broadcasting moving vehicle info?

 

 

On 5/26/2022 at 1:39 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

 We'll probably have to add something to allow modders to "pad" vehicles in some way, unless there's a clearer glitch, to avoid clipping. It might be best to turn off vehicle stories in the sandbox options to avoid weirdness for now. 

Thank you very much!!

Please also consider testing a "Chevalier Step Van x Chevalier Step Van car wreck event" I clearly seen it clipping on debug server. I will record it if I will encounter it again.

 

In the meantime, I hope you don't mind if I will drop car abnormal behaivor recordings in my own bug thread https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/54233-4171-car-handling-is-wacky-after-update-heavy-cars-can-barely-drive-especially-the-ones-from-mods/

Let me know if you find that excessive and I will stop posting videos. I will also try to put them in single post to avoid thread bumping.

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