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DIY Suppressor? (Maglite Suppressor)


Strider

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Keeping with PZ lore I doubt very much that a suppressor would be found in a police station. There is an extremely slim chance there may be one at someones home but without having any knowledge of American gun law I believe I read something about them being illegal in many states?

 

Anyway, back on top as I'm rambling. Would making your own suppressor be viable?

 

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2012/10/23/diy-maglite-flashlight-suppressor/

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I would attempt to fashion a crossbow before I attempted to control the gas output and reduce the velocity of a round at the end of a gun.  If you screw it up, you might end up killing yourself.  Also, where do you plan on testing this creation and not drawing attention to yourself?  There are all sorts of bs tricks to muffle a pistol shot (from pillows to 2 liter plastic bottles).  None of them address the explosion in the pipe when the primer detonates the powder in the cartridge.  Also while is does "supress" the bullet from breaking the sound barrier, it still makes a good bit of noise.  Considering the noise from the din of humanity is gone, popping a cap in a Zed (even with a fancy supressor) is going to alert any of their undead kin less than 50 feet away.

 

It is my understanding bows and crossbows are coming.  Lets wait for them to be the silent killers and leave guns well enough alone.

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If interested in my opinion, this thread sums it up nicely: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/3515-silencer-for-weapons/?hl=silencers

 

A quick search for the (mainly Hollywood) term "silencers" will bring up this thread and about one a month all the way back to 2011, most of which I've chimed up in XD

Adding onto this I just want to say I do hate silencers for one other reason. Gameplay. The thing with guns right now is that they are overpowered its a very useful weapon to have. However everytime you fire that gun there's a drawback. The sound. The sounds helps to balance the gun as a weapon since it might be powerful but there's more risk to firing the weapon and you got to account for this fact. I'm getting surrounded by zombies, do I use this gun and risk drawing more or don't and risk losing the character.

I just think suppressers would mess with balance somewhat since it removes a lot of the risk of the guns. That's just my two cents.

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If interested in my opinion, this thread sums it up nicely: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/3515-silencer-for-weapons/?hl=silencers

 

A quick search for the (mainly Hollywood) term "silencers" will bring up this thread and about one a month all the way back to 2011, most of which I've chimed up in XD

 

Fair enough. They're valid points.

 

If interested in my opinion, this thread sums it up nicely: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/3515-silencer-for-weapons/?hl=silencers

 

A quick search for the (mainly Hollywood) term "silencers" will bring up this thread and about one a month all the way back to 2011, most of which I've chimed up in XD

Adding onto this I just want to say I do hate silencers for one other reason. Gameplay. The thing with guns right now is that they are overpowered its a very useful weapon to have. However everytime you fire that gun there's a drawback. The sound. The sounds helps to balance the gun as a weapon since it might be powerful but there's more risk to firing the weapon and you got to account for this fact. I'm getting surrounded by zombies, do I use this gun and risk drawing more or don't and risk losing the character.

I just think suppressers would mess with balance somewhat since it removes a lot of the risk of the guns. That's just my two cents.

 

 

It's a shame because at the moment I just don't use guns. As like DayZ Mod, if you fire the wrong gun in the wrong place it's the same as 'ringing the dinner bell' so I end up not using weapons at all.

 

Just seems like a bit of a waste. That may be a reflection upon the incomplete nature of the game. I can only hope with the development of the AI director and improved meta events I'll see more Z's banging on my door and I'd be forced to use weapons at some point. Still, if their effectiveness has been overstated then I'm asking for something based on incorrect information.

 

So it seems that pistols and shotguns truly are a last resort.

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I do not want to see suppressors in the game as its game breaking.  But hunting with a suppressed rifle WITH subsonic ammo is crazy fun.  You can honestly shoot a hog close up, and its buddies/family will just stand there wondering why one of their own is running for the brush and bleeding.  With deer you can wipe out a good 3-4 from a herd if your culling.

 

They DO in fact give almost no noise with the proper setup and ammo.  Hunters are doing this more often in Texas.  I would say in the last year, I have seen about 3 hunters with a similar setup.  Although it takes a good 3-5 years to get a built in barrel type after you order it.  You mostly see them mostly on rifles then on pistols in the more rural areas.

 

Done right with sub sonic ammo

 

 goto 6:50.

 

With regular ammo

 

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Thanks for the links. Gutted that this won't be added but my goodness, that looks like a lot of fun. 

 

Question.

 

If you changed the ammo from the suppressed to the none suppressed. What would be the effective range before and after a suppressor/alternate ammo was added/used?

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I think this would be a pretty clever idea.

I've seen all kinds of homemade suppressors. Car oil filters, PVC builds, coffee cans... even a potato as a one-off.

The important thing to remember is; suppressors do not make you 100% silent, even with subsonic rounds(which i wouldn't want to see in the game, anyway). 

I think this could be pretty viable. From a game mechanic standpoint, they could have degradation system just like every other weapon in the game.

If we could get 10 rounds through a makeshift suppressor and have it as loud as a window smashing, that could add a really interesting element of strategy. You could clear out an indoor area of zeds without making the entire neighborhood cranky.

 

Also, bows and crossbows are not exactly silent either. There's a twang from the bow that, though isn't loud, is noticeable. Not to mention arrow impact into something other than a soft target can be heard as well.

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Thanks for the links. Gutted that this won't be added but my goodness, that looks like a lot of fun.

Question.

If you changed the ammo from the suppressed to the none suppressed. What would be the effective range before and after a suppressor/alternate ammo was added/used?

If you're referring to the difference in range between subsonic and normal ammo, that's not really a question that's easily answered. It's found to depend on a variety of factors- the caliber bullet, the model of gun (the barrel, specifically), the load of the bullet, the manufacturer of the bullet, your distance above sea level, the wind, etc.

Generally speaking, though, accuracy is a problem before range so it's not really relevant in a practical sense; especially with pistols, range is never the limiting factor, it's how far you can be accurate out to.

The more relevant factor is going to be the amount of force you lose; for instance, many .22s are almost perfect for zombie killing- try tend to penetrate the skull and then bounce off the back of the skull, effectively scrambling brains. But change that to a subsonic .22 round and it's much more likely to deflect off of the skull or not penetrate fully.

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Not specifically in a zombie context, more in a general context. I was curious if there was a generalization in loss of distance for sub-sonic ammunition and suppressor variables.

 

From what you're saying there are too many variables. I ask because gun distance was a point of interest for me. I used to love to make shots outside of the guns acceptable range in DayZ.

 

This was on a shooting range in Arma2 but I still thought it was pretty cool.

 

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I wouldn't mind seeing a suppressor for the pistol as a rarity in the game but it would need to be very rare and it would need to have durability. I also wouldn't like to see this in the game without the addition of sub-sonic ammo. From what I understand subsonic ammo is actually a little more common than you might think because many people market it as "low recoil" ammo. At any rate, of TIS wants to take the time to add ammunition types to the game then fine, but something tells me they've got bigger fish to fry and this probably won't make their to-do list.

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Subsonic ammo is pretty much as uncommon as you think. The store I work at has about 80 feet of shelving dedicated to ammo and we don't carry any subsonic ammo.

As far as range goes, I doubt suppressors have a noticeable impact at all. For the ammo… pretty hard to say. Based purely on memory, I think subsonic ammo is about 30% less feet per second velocity, but how that translates to distance varies wildly.

As a purely intellectual excersize it's interesting to think about, but as I mentioned before there's no practical meaning behind the maximum shot distance of rifles or handguns.

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My opinion on suppressors, as expressed in a suggestion thread I made, is that they should be in the game. They wouldn't make a gun silent, but they'd reduce the distance the sound travels. Manufactured suppressors would be extremely uncommon with the chance of none spawning at all. Improvised ones would require an investment in pertinent knowledge, as well as a lot of materials. They'd also be a lot less effective than a commercial one.

 

Right now I never use firearms unless in a very remote area or I have absolutely no other choice. Suppressors would make them a viable option in non-emergencies.

It'd also come into play in PvNPC and PvP. 

Again, you shouldn't just be able to stroll into the police station with a near-guarantee of finding one. They should be EXTREMELY rare or very difficult & time consuming to manufacture. And again, they wouldn't "silence" the weapon. 

 

If subsonic ammunition is added, supersonic ammunition could increase the degradation factor of the suppressor.

 

Here's the thread I posted

 

 

Disclaimer: I've only played a couple hours since 2012 so I'm not entirely sure if some of the mechanics and additions I describe would fit in with the game, or be possible in the engine, but here goes.

 

Suppressors

I think firearm suppressors would be a great addition to the game because right now, firearms are very rarely a viable option, and can turn an emergency situation into an even worse one by attracting more zombies.

 

Crafting:

This would necessitate the existence of a mechanics/physics skill, or maybe a firearms knowledge skill?

Anyway, the player would need several materials, tools and the correct level of said skill/knowledge. This would make it difficult to acquire quickly.

There could be several levels of crafted suppressors, each being more effective than the last, but likewise requiring more materials, time and knowledge.

 

Looting:

Pre-apocalypse manufactured suppressors would be extremely rare (There'd be a good chance of none spawning) but to make up for this they would be more effective than a DIY one. However, they would only work for a certain class of firearm and no others, whereas crafted ones can be made for any firearm.

 

Gameplay:

When attached to a firearm, a suppressor would nullify the report. However, the volume of the shot in the direction of fire would remain similar to that of an unsuppressed gunshot. This means that if there are zombies between you and your target, they will also hear the shot, however the radius the noise travels from the shooter would be reduced. At longer distances though, it would be practically silent.

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A sentiment frequently voiced by the devs and echoed by myself is that this game isn't meant to be about using firearms. You're SUPPOSED to only be using them in special cases. Guns were never meant to be your go-to weapon, and anything that changes that is inherently breaking the game.

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Then why not up the rarity of ammo (Seriously, I find it all over the place)? The way I proposed the function of suppressors would mean firearms are still pretty much emergency only, but the risk of using them would be diminished only to a certain extent. As they are now, there's practically no reason to go out of your way to find them.

A few bullet points:

Suppressors would be extremely rare and difficult to craft

They would only reduce the risks associated with use of firearms, rather than eliminate them

Firearms would become a viable option in non-emergency situations

 

With less common ammo and the low durability of crafted suppressors, suppressed firearms still wouldn't be your go-to weapon. They'd be useful if you are getting massively overwhelmed, but afterwards you'd be left with a broken/very damaged suppressor and little or no ammo. If you use an unsuppressed firearm in the same situation, you're simply adding to the horde possibly to the point that the situation is worse than before.

To reiterate once more, suppressors if added shouldn't make the weapon totally silent, just less loud so as to make them a more viable for emergency use as well as use in relatively clear areas. It's not like as soon as suppressors are added, every gun has one attached to begin with - you'd need to take risks and in the case of crafting, invest time, resources and effort in the first place to gain their benefits.

I really don't see how their inclusion would be game-breaking, if anything it adds more depth.

 

Also something I've been meaning to ask, do buildings and other obstacles affect the way sound travels in the game?

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They aren't really meant to be rare, though. It's meant to be a hard, challenging choice not a sense of rarity. When you've got the guns and the ammo and you're absolutely torn on whether to use it or not, that is the essence of what is trying to be captured by the game. Hard choices make games great. If you have suppressors, either the effect is good enough to make it a no-brainer, or it's not good enough and you're going to make the same choices with it as you did without it. It's not really a matter of shades of grey- it's black or white. It either breaks the spirit of the game or adds nothing to the game.

 

I should stress again that even having them "very rare" is somewhat of an overstatement. There is a ridiculously high probability that you would not find a single suppressor in all of Knox County in real life- in one of the other threads I actually took the time to look up the figures for how many suppressors were registered in Kentucky, and it's very few.

 

And finally, another monumental concern is that if you make them so rare as to be remotely realistic, and you make the home-made ones as shoddy, dangerous, and ineffective as real ones you've just spent a tremendous amount of dev time designing something that is going to have little to no impact on gameplay, which in my humble opinion is bad game design.

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Most .45 you'll get is subsonic by default, if there's ever more weapon and ammo variety added in the future.  I'm sure weapons and attachment stuff will be pretty big with modders, I'm not sure if it would really fit with the stock game.  Taking the risk out of using firearms would be bad imo.

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They aren't really meant to be rare, though.

Are you talking about suppressors or ammo here?

 

 

 

It's meant to be a hard, challenging choice not a sense of rarity. When you've got the guns and the ammo and you're absolutely torn on whether to use it or not, that is the essence of what is trying to be captured by the game. Hard choices make games great. If you have suppressors, either the effect is good enough to make it a no-brainer, or it's not good enough and you're going to make the same choices with it as you did without it.

 

This is exactly what I'm trying to accommodate with the way I suggested it; Firing a suppressed weapon while surrounded by zombies would still draw them to you, however it wouldn't get the ones that are way off-screen. Again, the point is to make firearms a more, if only slightly, viable option in an emergency situation. It's simple; Take two identical situations except for the fact that in one, the firearm in question is suppressed (In the fashion I proposed).

 So, you're in West Point's town centre, zombies around every corner. You've got a good 6 or 7 coming at you, with an almost-broken fire axe, and a pistol with a decent amount of ammo. With an unsuppressed weapon, using it would be out of the question. You're going to draw in more zombies than you have bullets. If it's suppressed, you might attract say 70% of the zombies on-screen, but you might have near enough the amount of ammo to deal with them.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not really a matter of shades of grey- it's black or whiteIt either breaks the spirit of the game or adds nothing to the game.

 This simply isn't true in my opinion, but it's evident that this is the way you think. What's the point in balancing anything, with this view?

 

 

I should stress again that even having them "very rare" is somewhat of an overstatement. There is a ridiculously high probability that you would not find a single suppressor in all of Knox County in real life- in one of the other threads I actually took the time to look up the figures for how many suppressors were registered in Kentucky, and it's very few.

Even more reason to add craftable ones!

 

 

And finally, another monumental concern is that if you make them so rare as to be remotely realistic, and you make the home-made ones as shoddy, dangerous, and ineffective as real ones you've just spent a tremendous amount of dev time designing something that is going to have little to no impact on gameplay, which in my humble opinion is bad game design.

The video in the OP seems to prove that real improvised suppressors aren't ineffective (Granted, the AK-74 was still loud as hell) or dangerous. Maybe someone who has no idea what they're doing could totally mess it up and create a glocknade yes, but as I said earlier there could be skills, traits and professions to accommodate this.

As for actually implementing them, I doubt that'd take major effort - It's the balancing and art that would. 

 

When I find the time, I'm going to attempt to do them myself for the sake of proof of concept. There's at least one mod that adds suppressors, but it makes the firearms in question entirely silent which I really didn't like. I've asked the creator for permission to convert them for use with the vanilla weapons, or the pistol at least.

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When I find the time, I'm going to attempt to do them myself for the sake of proof of concept. There's at least one mod that adds suppressors, but it makes the firearms in question entirely silent which I really didn't like. I've asked the creator for permission to convert them for use with the vanilla weapons, or the pistol at least.

 

 

You talkin about the Tommy Guns mod with the AR-15 and AR suppressor? I liked that one but it made gun drops way too common. I would find an AK-47 every other bathroom cabinet LOL!

 

http://pz-mods.net/weapons-items/TommyGuns/

 

But dude the samurai sword in that mod was gorgeous, I wish it was in the vanilla game *drools*

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Yeah, it is, and I agree on the ridiculous drop rate. Apparently that's the minimum though!

 

Anyway, I think I've worked out how to do it, I just need to find where the vanilla weapons are defined

 

Related:

 

These are apparently "home" made but the level of equipment used to make them would probably be unobtainable in the zombie apocalypse.

 

Pay attention to the part with the FN FAL and M14 (1:00 and 3:00). This makes me really want subsonic ammunition added, but right now I can't see a way to have a weapon's properties change based on the ammo loaded. It's probably possible with Lua but I'm not well versed in it.

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I've said this before, but trusting YouTube videos about suppressors is roughly akin to believing that a nigerian prince needs you to wire them $ 2,000. It's bad. People edit their footage and both recording devices and uploading services reduce volume spikes. In the other thread about suppressors I posted some actual, real facts about the sound suppressors mute.

 

The number of people who know how to make home made suppressors in Knox county is probably roughly equal to the people who own suppressors there- almost certainly none. It's unrealistic and doesn't add to the game. In your situation above, the right answer is to run, or shoot and run. The minute you start thinking "well since I have a suppressor, I can just blast my way out without consequence" you've broken the game. And semantics all you like, that's exactly what you said.

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I don't know what you're talking about, I got an email from a Nigerian prince and I'm $2000 richer.

If you're saying that a video is as believable as one of those schemes, then so are your facts about suppressors.

"Blasting my way out" wouldn't be without consequence; that's however many bullets I used I'm never getting back (unless munition crafting is added), plus whatever effect it has on the equipment's condition. That and even with the suppressor, firing, then moving, then firing some more can have a similar result as firing an unsuppressed weapon and staying in the same position.

Given enough ammo and maybe a spare gun or two, it's entirely possible to blast your way out of such a situation, suppressor or no.

Here's a video of Hickock45 using one of those oil filter suppressors. I'm pretty damn sure this guy doesn't doctor his videos in any way:

Granted, he's using .22s, but it still doesn't mean such an item would be ineffective. And of course even an unedited video might not accurately reflect the difference of volume, we're not there to hear it with our own ears. 

 

How many people in Knox county have the knowledge to apply bandages? How many of them can build walls, farm, cook and operate firearms near-flawlessly the first time they've used them etc. The fact of the matter is in PZ, player characters can learn how to do these things, and with knowledge in the right fields I'm sure it wouldn't be such a long shot that someone could work out how to suppress a firearm. As for commercial ones, do you know every single hunter and firearm enthusiast in Knox county? Are you sure that the statistics you used are 100% accurate?  There's also two factors you're missing here; The military, and criminals/black market. Sure, in real life the latter may not be big in KY, I'm no expert on the county or America as a whole, but this entire game is fiction; there's any number of handwavey explanations for their presence in the area, for example SF enter the quarantine zone to extract a VIP but get themselves killed, something like that. 

 

Also, to tell me that the right course of action is to run is pretty much invalidating what you said earlier - "it should be a hard choice".

How can you be so sure that such an item would either add nothing to the game, or break it when it hasn't been implemented? The one mod I've tried with them made them entirely silent which is exactly what I don't want - THAT is game-breaking. What I suggested is both a compromise and realistic. As for "adding nothing to the game", right now that's how I feel about the firearms themselves. Of course that'll change when NPCs are re-implemented, but when it comes to zombies they really aren't ideal.

 

Again, say it was YOU and not some computer-controlled character in this apocalypse. If you even had the slightest idea of how to make a suppressor, even a shoddy one, wouldn't you try to? If you had knowledge in the pertinent fields (Physics, engineering etc), wouldn't you get to work on it? Even though as you said earlier you have no place to safely test it - Wouldn't you keep it on the firearm you're so afraid of using in the event that it actually helps? Hell, have that as one feature, a low-level crafted suppressor has a chance of failing and a chance of causing something catastrophic. I really don't understand why you're so vehemently opposed to their existence in the game. It might not be 110% realistic and factually accurate, but what is, in ANY game?

 

Edit;

 I was looking at suggestion threads and came across this by chance - not to be an arse but these are your own words

"We can't let the fear of having something done poorly keep us from attempting it"

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