Traders

[Gunsman]

Hey Guys,

 

I was thinking of an idea for NPC's such as a trader....

 

 

 

Where you would find a trader...

 

The way it would work is you would find a base fenced off with thugs with rifles outside that would stop you to search you before you enter, When you enter there would be a man standing behind a fenced off counter (Like the pawn stores in Dead Rising). 

 

How to trade...

 

When you enter the man would welcome you, to talk to him you would press Q which would bring up a small screen that would have 2 different inventory pages, 1 being yours and the other being what the trader would sell. The way you would trade is by highlighting certain things in your inventory and when you do the trader would highlight things in his inventory that he will think would make a fair trade. The more things you highlight the more things the trader will also highlight some things.

 

What he would sell...

 

What he would sell is obvious it would rage from seeds and ammo to salmon and shotguns.

 

Extra ideas...

 

Some extra things i thought of is that before you start a new game there would be some new thing to select, like your past job there could be Salesman, Lawyers, etc. And for extra traits there could be something like stubborn for negative and fast talker for positive. All these things would affect your way around traders on getting better deals or worst deals. Also every trader would be different some would be very fair about there deals like trading some ammo for fish, and some would be complete thugs that if you gave them a shotgun they would trade you a box of nails

 

 

 

Thank you everyone for reading please post a comment on what you think about my idea..Thanks!

[SethTheZed]

Nice Idea, I fully support dis 

[Rathlord]

This is planned to be handled in a much more organic, non-gamey fashion as far as I know. Having it set up like this is a bit forced and probably not like anything you'd actually find in this situation. In reality, you'll find people and you'll be able to trade with the NPC's for whatever they've got. Whether that's in a built up fort or a guy huddled in a closet, it doesn't matter. Should be able to trade with pretty much everyone.

[speider]

traders would be wonderful

[darthdraken]

If not trade then TAKE it from them heheehe

[Kajin]

I think it might not be too far off the mark for some NPCs to have the Entrepreneurial trait. If an NPC is a part of a large group or the leader of a small group they might decide to go traveling around, seeking out allied or otherwise friendly groups to trade supplies with. Maybe have a small detail of security following them around to fight off bandits trying to steal their goods. It's a good idea. You'd just have to introduce NPC traits that would encourage such behavior.

 

Different supplies would have different weights of importance for trade. If you've got a couple guys that know how to make rope (an easily obtainable substitute for nails) and have a ton of the stuff in spare, they might be carrying it as a trade item. Say also that their rope making guys are both addicted to nicotine. Since the source of their trade good is dependent on a reliable supply of nicotine to keep production from declining, the traders might place a higher emphasis on obtaining cigarettes in trade. If the group the trader is a part of starts growing tobacco as part of their crops, though, they might instead stop trading for it and instead include it as a part of the goods they regularly carry.

 

Having a system in place to manage supply and demand for various NPC groups just feels like a natural extension of game play to me.

[Suomiboi]

I'd approach the trading system similar to what TES:Morrowind does, where there is an owner to an item and then a faction of people who may have "partial" ownership, such as an NPC group. If no one's taken an item from a house there is no owner. But once you loot a cupboard and haul the item to your safe house the item is yours, no matter where you leave it. This is also an easy way to add NPC reactions to stealing loot from them. The NPC group could then have access to that item if it's not very important to the owner or "expensive" such as a napkin or some nails. Other items would require a permission of sorts from the owner or a trade to change ownership or add you to the allowed users. It'd also pay to be friends with a guy who'll lend you his saw without anything else than friendship.

 

This way if you loot an NPC's cupboard and find his beloved fireman's axe, that he's carved his name into, you can't sell it back to him or use it in his vicinity or he'll agro on you.

 

I'd like to think there would also be a supply and demand type trading situation where if an NPC is building a safehouse and runs out of nails he'll "pay" more than if he's got a well protected Woodbury as a home.

 

Also a salesman profession to increase the price of sold items and a pawnshop owner to lower the price of bought items. In a dynamic way ofc.

[Doublebrain]

I dont think there should be something like traders. I would like to see every NPCs to be the same, a survivor. 

There should be different types like:

 

lone wolf:

allways moving

no safehouse

sleeps in his tent or quick barricaded flat/ room on upper floor

doesent trade much but good chance to get rare items

 

small group (usualy family/ friends from before everything started):

small secured safehouse

very loyal to group

trade only simple stuff, trade only to survive/ stuff they realy need

 

big group (surivors who stay together to survive):

safehouse looks more like a base/ fort

divide jobs in the group

trade a good amount of selfmade stuff as parts of the group can specialize on farming, crafting

some big groups have people specalized on trading

some big groups are even specalized on one type of good;

- secured a farm -> farming goods

- secured gas station -> gas

- secured factory -> engines, tools

 

Any group/ lone wolf might also refuse interaction or act hostile.

[Ewok]

The value a person would place on each item in their possession is always a difficult thing to balance with NPCs, however a trading system between players for future multiplayer would be sweet.

 

I imagine a trading window system similar to Steam, where people drop stuff in there and the transaction doesn't go through unless both people approve.

 

I like the idea in a PvP environment of offering trades as a way of seeing how much stuff the other guy has, then cancelling the trade and glooping them if they have what you want.

 

Not that I would do that of course... I'm one of the good guys.

[MadDan]

I wouldn't like it this way since it's basically like a shop in the apocalypse and since there's no rules and he'd probably be on his own you could just kill him and steal everything. I'd much rather an NPC on his own wandering that we could trade with or a group to group trade since then you wouldn't be able to tell if their hostile or not. For example: You could trade ammo for food, but the food you get could be completely rotten and they walk away with a gun pointed at you. Stuff like that would make for incredibly tense situations and that's what I want NPC's to be.

[Morbo513]

I'm very torn on the existence of traders at all. I do like the idea of being able to trade with any neutral/friendly NPC, but having a trader in a fixed place with everything available as presented in the OP sounds completely against the point of the game to me. If any of you have ever played a game called Survival Crisis Z (Very worth checking out, by the way), you'll know what I mean - You just run around collecting everything possible, sell it, and in the space of 20 minutes you have an M249.

 

However, I really do like this take on it:

I think it might not be too far off the mark for some NPCs to have the Entrepreneurial trait. If an NPC is a part of a large group or the leader of a small group they might decide to go traveling around, seeking out allied or otherwise friendly groups to trade supplies with. Maybe have a small detail of security following them around to fight off bandits trying to steal their goods. It's a good idea. You'd just have to introduce NPC traits that would encourage such behavior.

 

Different supplies would have different weights of importance for trade. If you've got a couple guys that know how to make rope (an easily obtainable substitute for nails) and have a ton of the stuff in spare, they might be carrying it as a trade item. Say also that their rope making guys are both addicted to nicotine. Since the source of their trade good is dependent on a reliable supply of nicotine to keep production from declining, the traders might place a higher emphasis on obtaining cigarettes in trade. If the group the trader is a part of starts growing tobacco as part of their crops, though, they might instead stop trading for it and instead include it as a part of the goods they regularly carry.

 

Having a system in place to manage supply and demand for various NPC groups just feels like a natural extension of game play to me.

 

[Kajin]

Alright, for the people who think fixed trading positions are a bad idea... Here's my take on it.

 

Let's continue using the previous theoretical group. The one that's producing a large quantity of rope (much more than they actually need) and a small quantity of tobacco (not a huge amount, but more than they really use themselves) as trade goods. Let's also say that a rise in bandit activity has caused them to stop sending out trade caravans, so they've stopped actively trading. But there's nothing stopping other people from going to them. They've got a relatively secure base of operations and a large enough number of people to where defending it from zeds and bandits isn't too difficult.

 

People still need rope and tobacco, but the supplier group isn't sending out caravans anymore. So the next best thing is to go to the supplier group and trade with them directly. Allied, friendly, and neutral groups can still send people to the supplier group to trade for things because dammit they need rope and tobacco helps take the edge off of a stressful day. So, in a way, the trade location is "fixed" in that you can go to the safe house of the supplier group and trade with them. This does not mean they'll always be there, though. Bandits might decide to mass into one huge attack and kill the entire supplier group or a horde of zeds could come in and destroy the safe house, displacing the supplier group.

 

If trading locations were implemented in such a way, it would more readily fit the fluid dynamic of Project Zomboid. Trade shops are created, moved, and destroyed based on how the world develops as time passes. Such locations are not "fixed" because they are an ever changing part of how the game unfolds in real time.

[Rathlord]

I still don't see any reason to make this a specific "trading spot." If it happens organically, within the game's systems that a group settles down and is producing in a spot, they'll trade. That should be able to happen just fine. But as soon as you introduce any kind of specific, new system you're actively working outside of the functions of the normal game to make it happen, which seems silly. Just let it happen within the system, I don't really see a convincing argument for what's added in gameplay value otherwise.

[Kajin]

I'm really not understanding where you're coming from, Rath. You say that you don't want there to be trading spots, but then go on to say that NPCs will still trade within their own safe house if it's part of organic game play when the entire point of my whole post was to facilitate how and why trading spots could emerge or be destroyed as part of the organic flow of the game's progression. I'm not encouraging a whole new system to be introduced. I'm suggesting how the current system can be made to work with the idea of trading locations.

[Kyun]

Rathlord likes :

- npcs survivors get together in a safehouse, they form a group. You walk by, they are not hostile at this moment and you are not either, you talk to them and maybe they'll trade with you (according to what they have and need).

 

There are no "traders", only survivors that (can) trade.

 

Rathlord doesn't like :

- There is a tradepost, same place in every game, same people, same structures built and they sell all or most of game items.

 

There are traders, not survivors.

 

I agree the first version is much more immersive.

[Suomiboi]

I think I know what you mean Kajin, but I don't see why there would need to be a seperate system on determining a "trade post" when a trade post is basically anything NPCs have inhabited for the meanwhile. You're trying to over-complicate a system that is already being placed, which is determining a group safe house. That's the place they call home and that's where they operate from mainly, wheter it's farming, trading etc.

[Kajin]

I'm not advocating the creation of a new system. I'm not advocating the creation of permanent shops that you can go to if you need to buy crap. I'm saying that a survivor safe house that has friendly survivors in it with a surplus of a certain good can be treated like a trade spot for the intents and purposes of trading. I'm suggesting how the current system can be made to fit with the idea of trading.

 

NPCs will need to learn basic resource management if they're going to function properly. Having your scavenging team coming back with nothing but hammers and nails when everyone is dying of the common cold and needs basic medicine isn't good NPC behavior. A resource that is desperately needed should have a high priority over something that the group already has a large amount of or can produce for themselves. Trading is a basic part of resource management, and in a realistic setting it'll happen however it can whenever two friendly groups of survivors interact. If you need rope and you know a friendly group nearby produces the stuff, you're gonna go to their place to trade for some rope. Ergo, for the purposes of getting rope, the safe house in question is a spot where trading can take place. I don't see how this line of reasoning is a bad thing.

[Rathlord]

treated like a trade spot for the intents and purposes of trading

 

I just don't understand this one line- it's just confusing to me. I don't see why it needs to be treated like anything. It's just a group of survivors that happen to have things; nothing more, nothing less. I guess it just comes across to me as if you're saying it needs some kind of special delineation, when I feel it really doesn't. May just be the wonders of written language fucking with my head, but it appears that way to others as well X=

 

For what it's worth, I entirely agree that resource management is important. I have a feeling you'll be able to tell your scavengers "find food" or "find wood" or "find medicine." I'm 100% there with you on that one.

[Kajin]

Yeah, I'm not using trade spot to indicate it's a special location or indication. I'm just using it to indicate what a safe house should also be capable of doing as part of its natural function. Like a meetup location or something.

 

You know a group of friendly survivors are there? You're gonna go there to meet up with them once every so often to check on things since a friendly face is reassuring in a world where there are so few. And since you're probably gonna be going there anyway, you may as well trade with them while you're there. So the safe house can also act like a trade spot since it's a natural meeting location to interact with friendly survivors but it's still just a safe house. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Rathlord]

Fair enough, totally agree with that.

[peternicole]

I love the idea but maybe you can even have the traders in stores holding up or there can be some kind of black market in one of the parts of the map. At the moment the outer edges of the map are pretty empty so its a good use for the space.

[Kajin]

I love the idea but maybe you can even have the traders in stores holding up or there can be some kind of black market in one of the parts of the map. At the moment the outer edges of the map are pretty empty so its a good use for the space.

This is the idea that most people don't like. Having a permanent store location isn't that great of an idea. It just doesn't make that much sense.

 

I can understand it if a bunch of survivors set up a safe house in a central location that's easy to get to so all friendly groups use it as a sort of trading hub, but such a thing would have to arise as a natural part of survivor behavior. Something that changes with the ebb and flow of meta events that drives the game forward. But permanent, pre-determined store locations? Not so much.

[peternicole]

 

I love the idea but maybe you can even have the traders in stores holding up or there can be some kind of black market in one of the parts of the map. At the moment the outer edges of the map are pretty empty so its a good use for the space.

This is the idea that most people don't like. Having a permanent store location isn't that great of an idea. It just doesn't make that much sense.

 

I can understand it if a bunch of survivors set up a safe house in a central location that's easy to get to so all friendly groups use it as a sort of trading hub, but such a thing would have to arise as a natural part of survivor behavior. Something that changes with the ebb and flow of meta events that drives the game forward. But permanent, pre-determined store locations? Not so much.

 

True but a blackmarket wouldnt be that bad in the early stages of the game. There has been talking about early military outposts that would be overrun and taken. I think an early blackmarket/survivor trade camp wouldnt be a bad idea. It can be good for early game trade and eventually for looting rare items.