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Hey Honey!


Strider

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I'm not sure if I'm suggesting this or not.

 

It's a little tenuous and not everyone will know this but the Egyptians knew that if you poured honey into a wound the sugar would disinfect it by not allowing the bacteria to grow due to the sugar. 

 

I realize this is specific information and it's unlikely a survivor would know about it. It's also unlikely that honey would be easy to get a hold of. I guess I'm saying, if it were me, when I went to raid the supermarket I'd be looking out for honey for that reason. Also, honey keeps for a heck of a long time. Forever, I heard said which this website affirms.

 

http://www.eatbydate.com/other/sweets/honey-shelf-expiration-date/

 

I figure that I know about this so it's not unreasonable that other people do. It could be contained within certain books within the game. Find that book and you unlock the ability to do it. 

For example, I obviously know but my character would not until he read the requisite book.

http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/health_tips/Disinfect_a_Wound_with_Honey.php

 

I'm sure there are other common items which can be used this way. One last point. What would actually happen is this. I'd go to the supermarket, I'd take the honey but I'd eat the honey 'cos it's delish, then my leg would be scratched and I'd die from an infection.

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Already had a thread on this, and it was batted down pretty firmly. That's psuedo-science at best and is mainly endorsed by a crackpot doctor, same as sugar. There's just so many better ways that don't stand an equal chance of making the infection worse.

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well if this does work its certainly not the sugar thats preventing growth. sugar is a basic fuel for all organisms, and almost all bacterias can eat it.

 

the only time sugar wouldnt grow bacteria is when its completely dry (as in powder form), but if your slathering it all over an open wound its going to get moist from body fluids, which would then be an extremely ideal place for bacteria to grow.

 

whats strange is honey doesnt rot tho, so maybe its something else in there?

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Well unfortunately there aren't many citations for "this doesn't work at all" because that's rather hard to prove, and no one wants to spend time proving that dinosaurs didn't have laser-guided machine guns.

 

To an extent, you just have to trust that "if it's not taught in medical school, it doesn't work." If it worked, it would get taught. The things is, the reason why honey keeps bacteria from growing (and the same with soda, jam, etc.) is because the sugar (salt, also, does a similar thing) binds the water into more complex molecules, which keeps the bacteria from using it. However, in an open wound this doesn't work. Bacteria don't just sit on the surface of the wound- they get down in there. You'd never be able to get honey internal enough to prevent the bacteria from accessing enough H2O to live, and at that point you're actually running the risk (as Waib has just pointed out) of fueling the bacteria. Hopefully that clears it up for ya a bit.

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I'm very perplexed. I thought you eat honey, not rub it on your wounds. 

 

Also, I've never heard of honey going bad, its biologically made to be preserved. It would be like if wax or cobwebs decayed. It just doesn't make sense

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well if this does work its certainly not the sugar thats preventing growth. sugar is a basic fuel for all organisms, and almost all bacterias can eat it.

 

the only time sugar wouldnt grow bacteria is when its completely dry (as in powder form), but if your slathering it all over an open wound its going to get moist from body fluids, which would then be an extremely ideal place for bacteria to grow.

 

whats strange is honey doesnt rot tho, so maybe its something else in there?

 

It's my understanding that the sugars that comprise the honey absorb the moisture that make up the bacteria effectively killing it.

 

I cannot provide citation of this either.

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<snip>

 

To an extent, you just have to trust that "if it's not taught in medical school, it doesn't work." If it worked, it would get taught.

 

I don't subscribe to this. The reason it won't be taught is because of modern medicine. A pot of honey is in no way going to compare with a shot of antibiotics.

 

That's not to say it isn't effective on some level. What I'm saying is. I'd like to know for sure and it seems there aren't any doctors here.

 

After the PZ meetup on Saturday night I thought I'd come back on here and try 'get along' but frankly I've found this post pretty condescending. So, to keep the peace I think I'll unsubscribe from this particular thread.

 

<snip>

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If you find facts condescending… well, too bad. I can't help you there.

 

Edit: And to be clear- even 'silly' remedies like this are taught in medical school. Doctor's aren't trained just to use the best in modern medicine- they're taught everything, from the ground up. I'm not a doctor myself, but my father is a doctor and I was on track to going to medical school before I ran out of money. But I feel quite certain nothing I say matters to you, anyways, so...

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Due to the presence of spores, not sugar . . .

 

I'd love to see some definitive citation either way as I'm not convinced.

Wikipedia doesn't mention endospores as the reason for its antibacterial properties, unfortunately. Instead, Wikipedia cites (to some extent) the osmotic effect of the sugars present, the creation of hydrogen peroxide when honey is diluted, it's high acidity, and the presence of methlglyoxal (with several caveats).

I'd make a guess that any good it does probably decreases rapidly as it mingles with bodily fluids. Rather than putting something sugary on a wound,  I'd think it'd be more effective to simply clean it and protect it from contamination.


As to whether modern  medicine simply ignores things because it's modern medicine, well . . . I don't care. If it can be proven through the scientific process, it'll be proven.

 

Now for the  God-Complex Admin part:

 

After the PZ meetup on Saturday night I thought I'd come back on here and try 'get along' but frankly I've found this post pretty condescending. So, to keep the peace I think I'll unsubscribe from this particular thread.

 

Thoughts like this are best kept private rather than aired publicly. Take it to PMs or keep them part of your internal monolog. Mike drop posts aren't conductive to discussion in any way.

 

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Due to the presence of spores, not sugar . . .

 

I'd love to see some definitive citation either way as I'm not convinced.

Wikipedia doesn't mention endospores as the reason for its antibacterial properties, unfortunately. Instead, Wikipedia cites (to some extent) the osmotic effect of the sugars present, the creation of hydrogen peroxide when honey is diluted, it's high acidity, and the presence of methlglyoxal (with several caveats).

I'd make a guess that any good it does probably decreases rapidly as it mingles with bodily fluids. Rather than putting something sugary on a wound,  I'd think it'd be more effective to simply clean it and protect it from contamination.


As to whether modern  medicine simply ignores things because it's modern medicine, well . . . I don't care. If it can be proven through the scientific process, it'll be proven.

 

Now for the  God-Complex Admin part:

 

After the PZ meetup on Saturday night I thought I'd come back on here and try 'get along' but frankly I've found this post pretty condescending. So, to keep the peace I think I'll unsubscribe from this particular thread.

 

Thoughts like this are best kept private rather than aired publicly. Take it to PMs or keep them part of your internal monolog. Mike drop posts aren't conductive to discussion in any way.

 

 

 

The other problem is, I imagine it must be a temporary patch or more likely it depends on the severity of the wound. Tests have actually been conducted on this, the problem is they often drop off without much explanation. If I had to guess as to why, I would think it's just because it's providing fruitless results.

 

It happens a lot to be fair, studies getting picked up with "Promising" starts, but that promise doesn't last long, it either isn't practical or just isn't as useful as what is initially thought. Places that often talk about it being an effect measure usually stem from sites where a "doctor" is trying to get more hits for their websites and something like this would generally draw people in. Any reputable sites talk in passing about the start of research but never progresses far.

 

I don't know, speaking from a position of someone who's been exposed to a few home remedies, they usually have no effect, unless you believe so strongly in them you might get some residual placebo effect or something.

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"I don't know, speaking from a position of someone who's been exposed to a few home remedies, they usually have no effect, unless you believe so strongly in them you might get some residual placebo effect or something"

yeah only that in lot of cases placevo effect is not residual at all. that's one of the reasons it's difficult to make test to something...

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Also placebo sometimes affects even if you know the only thing effecting you is placebo so... Before I say anything on the honey subject I'd just like to see that 'recent study' that the article bases it's assumption on.

 

Also as mentioned in the OP this isn't actually that common knowledge and such a minor thing so I don't really see a reason why it should be implemented.

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