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Digestive system is needed (and reproductive system)


SamKing

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I believe the goal of this game is to be as realistic as possible. But that won't happen if they don't implement a food "digestive system" for the character. Where it would be necessary to urinate and everything, even vomit. Friends I introduce the game to always ask me if this is possible when I say the game is realistic.

 

Thinking about human body systems, it would also be interesting to have a reproductive system, where it puts us to deal with the situation of a pregnancy in the apocalypse. All this would probably be 18 and should be disabled in default mode, and enabled in series + in settings.

Edited by SamKing
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  • SamKing changed the title to Digestive system is needed (and reproductive system)
1 hour ago, plutonists said:

I can see something like vomit getting implemented, but a reproductive system? There's a fine line to games being realistic and annoyingly realistic :P

 

Hey it's a way to relieve stress and do your part for the repopulation of the species. xD

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I don't know if the goal of this game is to be as realistic as possible, more so to be realistic in how it relates to survival, specifically in a zombie apocalypse. While reproduction is a factor in the survival of humans as a species, this game focuses on an individual and their demise. As for bodily functions and a more complex digestive system, there is plenty of evidence that this would be a bad idea and little to gain by it's addition. There are very few games that impliment the need for going to the bathroom, it serves no real purpose other than adding a mechanic for the sake of adding the mechanic. Something like this would only add tedious tasks and make the game more difficult at the expense of enjoyment.

 

That being said, this could be generalized into expanding on the hygiene mechanics of the game. If there was a general/average level of hygiene, such as the happiness or boredom systems, such bodily functions could conceivably be a part of maintaining this hygiene. It would also not highlight the specifics of going to the bathroom while still addressing that it is an unfortunate part of life.

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Yeah lets leave those ideas to the realms of modding, shall we?

Project Zomboid is *not* trying to be the most realistic game possible. PZ is a story generator, following the doomed experience of your player character. Realism factors in at a lot of places, but TIS has, on numerous occasions, opted to go for more game-y systems over realistic behaviour because the truth is: Realism isn't fun. It's possible to enjoy realism, but it's not fun if you take it to those frankly ridiculous extremes.

 

As for the idea of a "reproductive system": There's so many reasons why this is a bad idea that listing them all is impossible, but here are a few anyways: 

  • Ratings: A lot of countries restrict the sale of games with sexual content. Either they get banned entirely (Australia is a common example for this) or their purchase restricted to platforms with age verification. Having the content be hidden behind a toggled setting is not good enough to satisfy those rating boards.
  • Player behaviour: Players are assholes. You have to always keep that in mind when designing games with multiplayer. Every feature you add needs to be thought out in particular regard to how easily it is exploited to ruin other player's fun. I don't think I need to elaborate too much on how a "reproduction" system can be used to abuse players.
  • It's pointless: On the time scale the game runs on, seeing any possible child being born is already unlikely. Few players survive 9 months, and even fewer actually play that long before rerolling out of boredom. Let alone the decade+ it would take for that child being anything more than an annoying burden.
  • Violence & Children: This one plays a bit into the ratings issue as well. Having children in this game also automatically implies the possibility of violence against children, and death of children. This is something that a LOT of people are not comfortable with, and that most ratings boards do not look kindly on. (Ever wonder why if there are kids in a violent game, they're almost always immortal?)

 

There's some other points I won't elaborate on, it doesn't take much thought to come up with more reasons why this isn't a good idea.

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I agree with everyone, let's leave this to the modders.

 

And just to be clear, the more realistic the game is to me, the more immersive and fun it gets. I like to feel my character alive, and every time I eat a food, I wonder where did that food go? kaka

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/5/2022 at 5:36 PM, LLcraigJ said:

That being said, this could be generalized into expanding on the hygiene mechanics of the game. If there was a general/average level of hygiene, such as the happiness or boredom systems, such bodily functions could conceivably be a part of maintaining this hygiene. It would also not highlight the specifics of going to the bathroom while still addressing that it is an unfortunate part of life.

 

I second the idea of a general hygiene meter rather than a bladder/colon meter. Hygiene is a very important factor in long-term survival after all. Taking showers/baths, washing your hands/face, wearing clean clothes, brushing/flossing teeth, wearing deodorant/lotion/soap, using the toilet, brushing/cutting/dyeing hair, shaving/styling beard, and applying makeup could all have varying positive effects towards hygiene. That way, if all you want to do is the bare minimum of cleaning your body and clothes, you can do that. However, for players who want to RP, they can still use the restroom and have that be a way to keep their hygiene up.

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6 hours ago, TrailerParkThor said:

However, for players who want to RP, they can still use the restroom and have that be a way to keep their hygiene up.


If you are roleplaying then surely it doesn't matter if any of this is implemented. You could walk into the bathroom, shut the door and pretend to coil one out, since you are RP, you could pretend your hygiene is up.

 

Personally, I'm not too enthusiastic about the hygiene suggestions. I don't want a situation where I have to worry more about brushing/flossing my character's teeth and wiping their ringpiece than actually playing the game and having fun. 

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9 hours ago, OffitMan said:


If you are roleplaying then surely it doesn't matter if any of this is implemented. You could walk into the bathroom, shut the door and pretend to coil one out, since you are RP, you could pretend your hygiene is up.

 

Personally, I'm not too enthusiastic about the hygiene suggestions. I don't want a situation where I have to worry more about brushing/flossing my character's teeth and wiping their ringpiece than actually playing the game and having fun. 

Of course this would add another stat to manage. While not an immediate concern in survival situations, it has long term effects if not addressed. Something like this wouldn't need to be done very often, even doing a hygiene task once a day wouldn't interfere with the gameplay loop. There could be several options for hygiene tasks as well. Wash your hands while refilling water, change clothes that are dirty/bloody or repair/clean them, relieve yourself while looting a bathroom. There are plenty of random opportunities to easily keep up with a stat that could be ignored for a day or two before having an impact on mood and such. After a week or so, things might start to effect stamina and possibly being a zombie attractor (not sure how this fits into zombie lore, but it's not impossible)

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On 4/6/2022 at 4:32 AM, WhiskeyTangoFoxX said:

 

  • Player behaviour: Players are assholes. You have to always keep that in mind when designing games with multiplayer. Every feature you add needs to be thought out in particular regard to how easily it is exploited to ruin other player's fun. I don't think I need to elaborate too much on how a "reproduction" system can be used to abuse players.

"Kurt Russel, what's going on in there?" *kshkt*

 

"They're [abusing] us!"

 

*kshkt*

 

"They're [abusing] us and it hurts!!"

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@LLcraigJexactly.

 

@OffitManI do agree that making hygiene/bladder needs to the level of, say, the Sims would only serve to alienate a lot of casual players. Still, I think that entirely ignoring the fact that hygiene is a MAJOR part of long-term survival just isn't realistic. The fact that you need to be a literal Hemophobe in-game to even be bothered that you are soaking in the rotting gore of your neighbors is pretty silly. I imagine any of us would at least need relatively clean skin, hair, and clothes to even be content. You're telling me the guy who hasn't washed himself or changed his clothes in 10 months is happy with his life? In-game, his moodles are neutral so he must be right?

 

I think the best way to go about this is to have a passive Hygiene meter that generally degrades over time. Slow when indoors, normal speed when outdoors, and quickly when doing manual labor/exercise. Perhaps -0.25, -1, and -3 every hour respectively. Bloodiness should also have a disproportionately high decrease in Hygiene compared to Dirtyness. In my mind, the bar would come in positive/negative moodles like Hunger. For example:

 

+10 Hygiene (hard cap) = Immaculately Clean

+5 Hygiene (soft cap) = Squeaky Clean

0 Hygiene = Clean

-10 Hygiene = Musky

-20 Hygiene = Dirty

-30 Hygiene = Filthy

-40 Hygiene = Disgusting

 

This way if you wake up in the morning and clean yourself to Squeaky Clean level, you will have about 4 days until you are Dirty if you mostly spend it indoors. If you just wash yourself twice a week, you should be fine. Even if you are on a hardcore workout regimen or are building a house by hand, you should only be getting down to Filthy by the end of each day. I would even consider they add a 'secret' moodle for when you and your clothes are both completely clean. This way, if you put in a little more work, you should be able to stay clean much longer than usual. Staying indoors, Immaculately clean should last 3 1/2 days before you become Musky.

 

I also think that if the only negative effect that low Hygiene brings is an Unhappiness debuff, it will be pretty balanced. May even be more balanced towards ignoring it, but I think that's for the best. Maybe like this:

 

Immaculately Clean = -20% Unhappiness Gain

Squeaky Clean = -10% Unhappiness Gain

Clean = 0% Unhappiness Gain

Musky = +5% Unhappiness Gain

Dirty = +10% Unhappiness Gain

Filthy = +25% Unhappiness Gain

Disgusting = +50% Unhappiness Gain

 

So there is a benefit to keeping yourself and your clothes clean if you'd like to do so, but ultimately it isn't that big of a deal. Even at pretty high rates of Hygiene loss, most players would only need to wash something once a day to avoid the debuff. The debuff is also not very debilitating, but would be a minor annoyance. Washing once or twice a week should be fine for most people. Plus, if devs added other ways to increase Hygiene, it could be very fun and easy to maintain. Like I listed earlier, they could include all of these actions:

 

On 5/9/2022 at 6:50 PM, TrailerParkThor said:

Taking showers/baths, washing your hands/face, wearing clean clothes, brushing/flossing teeth, wearing deodorant/lotion/soap, using the toilet, brushing/cutting/dyeing hair, shaving/styling beard, and applying makeup could all have varying positive effects towards hygiene

 

If cutting your hair/beard or washing your weapons were included, I think most players would be able to satisfy the need's requirements without changing their playstyle much.

Honestly, though, if needing to take a shower and wear clean clothes sometimes is too much of an ask for you, I don't even understand how you play this game. So much of PZ is mindless, monotonous survival tasks. Some of which you can't even FF through. If you click 'Wash Self' on a tub and FF, it would take you less than 5 seconds to do. How is that less boring and more time-consuming than reading a Skill Book or building a wall around your compound? I think bringing in Hygiene now would be perfect with the new anims. Imagine actually watching your character wash under the shower water or sit on the toilet and reading a book while taking a dump. This single thing could lay the groundwork for multiple new mechanics and systems. We know wild animals are coming. Can a hungry bear smell you more easily if you are Dirty? Zombies could even have senses of smell, being attracted to stinky PCs. Perhaps covering yourself with zombie guts could even make them ignore you. The Psychology/Health Overhaul that is somewhere on the horizon could definitely benefit from a foundational Hygiene system. Keeping yourself clean is a simple task you could take on to keep up mental health after all. And infections/diseases could be more easily caught when maintaining low Hygiene.

 

All in all, I think a hygiene system is a good idea. I could take or leave the idea of functional toilets, as long as it isn't a requirement to actual use them. However, at that point we should just leave it to modders and not waste the dev's precious time anymore LOL

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