Animals and Befriending/Domesticating/Taming Them

[FreeJayFly]

If there's a topic for this already, I do apologise. When I searched for one, there was really only results that only mentioned what I was looking for briefly. I also understand that animals were confirmed for being added later, though this is not just a suggestion for adding animals.

 

I kind of wanted to help broaden the addition of animals, if at all. Mostly in the departments of finding ways to tame or befriend certain animals to sticking by your side and seeing you as their 'alpha' in some cases. With dog food and tuna already being in the game, I can assume that dogs and cats are already two different animals that will make an appearance.

 

So... deviating away from them here for the first part, what about farm animals and being able to lead them back to a location that you set up for them? That, and having a way to create hay bales from tall grass so that you can care for larger animals down the line (or setting up a fenced in area where they can graze). Maybe carrots, apples, or more enticing greens can be used to lure now free roaming bovine, horses, and pigs to a location that you have set up, or if you can get close enough, be able to use a lead rope on them to take them back.

 

Of course, it would be a tricky process if you haven't already cleared the area -- unless you so happened upon one of the preexisting farmlands that have the animals on them.

 

Back to more common household pets -- given the nature of the game, it's highly unlikely that animals that a player would run across would want to trust said player. So how would being able to befriend them work? I imagine that tuna, salmon, or fresh dead rats would be ways to coax a feline friend, whereas dogs would be happy to receive the canned dog food, and other various meat products. On the note of giving meat to the animals, I personally would cook the meat to give to the animals rather than just giving it to them raw -- though I'm sure this could be an optional feature.

 

In any case, I suppose I also wanted to talk about added benefits of having pet companions, so here's a list of things that I have talked about with my fiancé that we think could be viable possibilities:

 

Positives:

1. All animals being able to be stress relievers, and happiness inducers if interacted with. However, the more work you do with them or for them, the less they make you happy, and can even start to stress you out.
    
2. Cats bringing back fresh dead rats, birds, or lizards (if the devs wish to incorporate more animals than just the standard) as 'presents.'
    
3. Chickens being able to produce eggs for the players (though eggs seem kind of useless due to eggs only being used in soups currently).
    
4. Cows providing milk (and thus allowing the player to possibly make other various dairy products if given the correct tools and learning material).
    
5. Dogs helping the player hunt game and take down zombies (the highest chance of becoming infected or dying due to most likely accompanying the player the most).
    
6. Horses/Donkeys/Mules (or all the above) could be used as pack animals to help carry things that you otherwise couldn't, or... or they can be used for transportation with a decreased item carrying option to help accommodate for player and wanted items. Also has faster speed all around, though still gets fatigued  if running for too long.
    
7. Pigs... ah... other than raising them for slaughter so that you have a good supply of ham and bacon, there's not really much else that I could add onto this, other than their poop makes excellent fertiliser.

Negatives:

 

1. Should animals going in heat be a consideration, then interacting with them will cause stress -- or even injuries if an animal is given the coding so that it can lash out.
    
2. Animal noises (such as roosters crowing, dogs barking, cows mooing, etc.) will attract zombie attention to where you are holding out, or have the animals located.
    
3. Cats and dogs are capable of ruining certain things (maybe peeing on newspapers or clothing -- or tearing up books).
    
4. Upon meeting certain animals (dogs, bovine, pigs) that are unconstrained by fences, they are territorial, and will attack regardless of if you are wanting to tame them or not (this is not to say they cannot be tamed).

 

Everything is still a work in progress. I'm just going ahead and spitballing ideas, and am going to add, or elaborate upon some when community feedback is provided. ^ v ^

Edited January 28, 2014 by FreeJayFly

[Thebig44]

Nice, defently a good idea for animals (when implemented)!

[mwps]

I wonder how will the animals work if there will be no special zombies or zombie cats and zombie dogs dont count as special?

[FreeJayFly]

It may be likely that what that could refer to is no special zombies like what Left 4 Dead has with the Boomer, Smoker, Spitter, Hunter, and other things -- basically, no mutational strains that would make them more than what they currently are. My fiancé actually chimed in as I was looking this over, though, and said that perhaps that the zombies could go ahead and kill off the animals, with their zombification process not effecting them at all because of the different biology.

 

Another thing that came to mind, is since animals do have a different biology, they could be infected, and depending on the animal's disposition toward a player, their bite could also contribute to zombification, though have no negative effect on the animal. However, I feel like this would be a rather cheap and unnecessary option depending -- or some people might actually like it.

 

Though, it is still up in the air, so maybe there could be zombie animals. :'D I don't much hold my breath for it, to be honest, however.

[Suomiboi]

Good suggestion, I'd like to see this happen too, but it might be a bit of a labour coding wise to add such an amount of creatures that'd have to have different AI's and properties so I think it'll be a late alpha/beta feature if at all. I think this is such an obvious topic that someone will mod it eventually.

 

 

I wonder how will the animals work if there will be no special zombies or zombie cats and zombie dogs are not count as special?

According to Max Brooks' zombie survival guide infected animals die instantly. This is the most likely situation to happen as the devs have clearly stated that the game is done following his work and that of Romero. Also I don't think there are any Romero clips with zombie animals.

[Steelshrapnel]

I'm a farmer in real life. This is a strong possibility, though once NPCS are added? Trust me when I say that most farmers will defend their livestock to the bone. Even if it's not the zombie apocalypse. So I'd say that there should be a good sum of difficulty if you try herding or stealing animals. Not to mention the noise they make. All the more fun, I say. Also, I'd say that not every animal should be a stress reliever if interacted with. Cattle are a pain in the rear to deal with, and the bulls usually aren't friendly. (I had a cow that was like a dog, though. She would let me scratch her, pet her. Though that's rare.)

[FreeJayFly]

I actually grew up with my dad on a ranch where we owned horses and other livestock. For the most part that I know, cows were generally skittish unless you had food that they would come running for. Though, yes... bulls are a little more on the iffy side with their territorial tendencies.

 

Most of what I threw up here was for brainstorming purposes.

 

I added that the animals would be stress relief mostly due to the fact that you're surrounded by hundreds upon hundreds of stragglers, so having something that's alive and presumably not trying to kill or eat you at every waking moment would be a comforting thought. It was more the, "at least not everything has gone straight to hell" kind of thing.

[Steelshrapnel]

Makes sense; though I still think that not every animal should have that effect. Sure, the animals are alive, but they can be an inconvenience if you don't know how to deal with them, or they are timid or aggressive. Similar to how you can become depressed in the game, or get wet via rain.

[Strider]

I noticed that in the sandbox mode that the game has an option for the Z's to weaken over time. I imagine with the advent of animals and hunting the Z's would have at least some food to keep them spritely.

 

Also, the animals could be used inadvertently as a lure. I mean that a Z could shamble after a deer/boar and the boar would by the law of averages, eventually stumble in the direction of a players safe house. Enough animals and it's just a matter of time.

[Strider]

Dogs could be very interesting. I wonder what could result from keeping a dog in the apocalypse.

 

1. The dog could bark/growl, hence being used as an early warning system

2. The dog could bark/growl giving away your position.

 

The dog could be trained to be useful as opposed to a liability.

[FreeJayFly]

I went ahead and edited the first post to include some of the community suggestions so that anyone coming to this thread for the first time can catch up in one big post if they so choose. o v o

 

I like the idea of dogs giving away your position, and was actually something I considered throwing up there with all the other things I was writing at first. |D It's there now, though. There are also other negatives added to the list to make animals less of a shining beacon, and more of a realistic expectation for the most part.

[Brannty]

Imagine being on a scavenging run. You hop a fence into a backyard... and there's the family dog. Not only are you probably going to be running for your life, but the barking is going to pull Zeds in from everywhere. Love the idea, I really hope the implement it.

[Strider]

That would be tense.

 

Also, the dog or pets could be used as tools (by the game) to move the zombies too. If you spotted a dog you might have to kill it. Because of hunger (dogs associate people with food) a starving dog may well follow a person back to his safe house.

 

A dog doesn't understand the implications of 20 zombies following him.

[Typha]

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/4906-primitive-zombienpc-detection/

 

I will still stand on my opinion that a dog should alert for other survivors, cats alert for zombies, and birds alert for toxins and can be used as messengers

[Typha]

also zombie animals seems kinda out of the atmosphere of zomboid. Because if animals could be infected, whats to say other things like plants and water can't be infected.

[FreeJayFly]

also zombie animals seems kinda out of the atmosphere of zomboid. Because if animals could be infected, whats to say other things like plants and water can't be infected.

 

Well... why couldn't plants and water be infected, first off? Water can become easily contaminated if left stagnant, or even come from a source that has bad bacteria or viruses growing in it already. I feel that plants would be a different story -- since they do gather up a bunch of their water and nutrients from the soil -- which also could go into getting them diseased. On the other hand, pests and bugs are known for destroying crops and spreading disease to them in the process.

[Steelshrapnel]

I'd probably keep all the dogs I found in-game. IRL they're great for hunting. Just feed them a few scraps of meat or some kibble while on the hunt or when they're inactive, and they'll be fine. Even if one follows you, I'd say that'd be the perfect time to break out the shotgun and kill some zeds...If only to get a few more skill points. Dangerous? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Rewarding? Most definitely.

[Strider]

 

also zombie animals seems kinda out of the atmosphere of zomboid. Because if animals could be infected, whats to say other things like plants and water can't be infected.

 

Well... why couldn't plants and water be infected, first off? Water can become easily contaminated if left stagnant, or even come from a source that has bad bacteria or viruses growing in it already. I feel that plants would be a different story -- since they do gather up a bunch of their water and nutrients from the soil -- which also could go into getting them diseased. On the other hand, pests and bugs are known for destroying crops and spreading disease to them in the process.

 

 

Yeah, I know in TWD (Spoiler alert if you've not seen it) there is a well and that had been contaminated.

[Typha]

i guess it all comes down to the zombie lore. If its an infection, usually it either effects one species or effects every entire carbon object. Only becoming a zombie by a bite would mean the infection is a virus and can't live outside a host. If you can catch the infection from just touching infected objects then its probably a bacteria and has the opportunity to grow and expand into other other creatures.

 

The word Zombie comes from the witch doctors of the Caribbean. If you did something bad, the witch doctor would put you under a Zombified trance and you would be forced to work out in the farms.

 

If we want to go by the Undead lore of Zombies, then that might include just humans and animals. Maybe like Night of the Living Dead, or how about a game where the zombies don't die, every part you chop off still has the desire to munch on your brains like in Return of the Living Dead

Zombies have feelings too

[PintLasher]

Your fiancee is dead right. Just look at the common cold and what happens when illnesses like it (very rarely) cross the species barrier. It seldom happens. But when it does... Yikes. I think the only idea I didn't like was that dogs or other animals could become infected...

 

It could be done realistically though. Maybe after a certain amount of time (2+ years) the "zombie" virus itself could mutate and infect 1 particular species. Randomly chosen. The infected species will prioritize attacks on its own species given a choice. That's more realistic but I still don't like the idea of animal zombies at all. A virus such as a zombie one would have to be incredibly complex and incredibly specialized. Much like the "mind-control" fungi of real life that prey on ants. (Ant behaviour not very complex/human behaviour very complex)

 

also zombie animals seems kinda out of the atmosphere of zomboid. Because if animals could be infected, whats to say other things like plants and water can't be infected.

 

Well... why couldn't plants and water be infected, first off? Water can become easily contaminated if left stagnant, or even come from a source that has bad bacteria or viruses growing in it already. I feel that plants would be a different story -- since they do gather up a bunch of their water and nutrients from the soil -- which also could go into getting them diseased. On the other hand, pests and bugs are known for destroying crops and spreading disease to them in the process.

 

 

Viruses can't replicate without a host cell to hijack... their whole existence depends on this process. They're not alive in the same way that other creatures are, even the simplest ones like bacteria, protozoans and fungi.

[FreeJayFly]

Your fiancee is dead right. Just look at the common cold and what happens when illnesses like it (very rarely) cross the species barrier. It seldom happens. But when it does... Yikes. I think the only idea I didn't like was that dogs or other animals could become infected...

 

It could be done realistically though. Maybe after a certain amount of time (2+ years) the "zombie" virus itself could mutate and infect 1 particular species. Randomly chosen. The infected species will prioritize attacks on its own species given a choice. That's more realistic but I still don't like the idea of animal zombies at all. A virus such as a zombie one would have to be incredibly complex and incredibly specialized. Much like the "mind-control" fungi of real life that prey on ants. (Ant behaviour not very complex/human behaviour very complex)

 

Hm... those come from the fungus species known as Cordyceps (something I have been begrudgingly educated on thanks to my fiancé's fascination with The Last of Us ideas and gameplay). They not only infect ants, though,they've been known to infect a number of other insects and bugs as well. The one that creates the 'zombie ants', however, is called Ophiocordyceps. Interestingly enough, though, the fungus also has a longstanding medical use history in modern medicine as well.

 

Though, back on track...

 

I've always been on the fence about zombified animals when it comes to my video games and things of the like. My first zombie game was Zombies Ate my Neighbours, and fast forward a few years to the fresher mindset of what defines zombie to me in some cases goes to Resident Evil, where zombified Rottweilers made an appearance. While I believe that it should not be a zombification process that has excessive mutations (like Resident Evil), I do believe that it should not be something that provides a greater hazard than the stragglers that are already there.

 

Again, on the fence; if it's considered, great, if it's not, it's not a big loss.

 

And the time frame you've provided for a mutational strain that can infect other species of one kind or another is great. In the end, Project Zomboid is a survival game, and should be something that should instill the idea of 'survival of the fittest'. And, while that can usually entail physically fit and capable, that shouldn't also negate setting up for future events or prepare for the worst. One of your animal friends turning on you certainly is one of the worst things that could happen.

 

Viruses can't replicate without a host cell to hijack... their whole existence depends on this process. They're not alive in the same way that other creatures are, even the simplest ones like bacteria, protozoans and fungi.

 

Growing probably wasn't the best choice of word here. Though, bacteria, fungi, and viruses still need moist areas to at least 'live', even without a host. They just need the time to find whatever they can later use as a host and replicate.

[Jago]

About the cows: Wouldn't they get sick because no one is milking them anymore?

 

I like the idea of animals in the game, but that has been already discussed. Taming is different, however and should be in the game imo. What could a lonely survivor wish for but a loyal dog as companion like in "I am legend"? However it should be very difficult to tame a dog that isn't looking as much for company as you are and might be more useful as a meal (---> hunting).

What about a trait that lets the player start the game with a dog or some smaller pet (rat, hamster, ...), a "pet owner-trait. In that case there is no taming necessary.

[CaptKaspar]

*bump*

 

I love the idea of heading out to the farms and herding some cows/pigs together and driving them back to my 'ranch' that I have set up at my safe house.

 

This would take a coordinated group effort to do.

 

We have farming, we have fishing, we have trapping, and I think animal husbandry is the next logical step.

 

I once had a lawyer tell me that the best life insurance policy is a shotgun and a pig.

[Gatrie]

Great idea for when the animals are implemented in the game in my opinion. I would also love to see animals geting angry and ferocious depending on which way you want to become friend with them, on how are you suppose to find them and even try to save them from the zombies and so on BUT i would also love to see ferocious animals like lions, tigers etc

[Strider]

About the cows: Wouldn't they get sick because no one is milking them anymore?

 

I like the idea of animals in the game, but that has been already discussed. Taming is different, however and should be in the game imo. What could a lonely survivor wish for but a loyal dog as companion like in "I am legend"? However it should be very difficult to tame a dog that isn't looking as much for company as you are and might be more useful as a meal (---> hunting).

What about a trait that lets the player start the game with a dog or some smaller pet (rat, hamster, ...), a "pet owner-trait. In that case there is no taming necessary.

 

One of the things which interests me is the relationship between domesticated animals and people. For example there was a young Russian girl neglected by her parents at a very young age. Due to the cold she took shelter wherever she could and she found it with dogs. She sought them to keep warm and they tolerated her because they associated her with food.

 

I apologize in advance for linking to the Daily Mail: Link

 

Such would be true in the Z apocalypse. Dogs which were born before the outbreak would still remember people as providers but those born after would not and be feral/semi-feral. If/when dogs are implemented that distinction would need to be made as it would with most animals.

 

Also, I can't see cows surviving very well after the outbreak. They're not built for speed and they only really survive in numbers. I can't imagine cows lastly very long when face with large numbers of zombies and I'd expect them to be rare.

 

Also, I don't know what is common for Kentucky, that is, if Kentucky is the reference here. If farms with animals are common then I can't see why chickens or other simple farmyard animals could be employed. A goat would be a great find. They're very hardy and will eat almost anything. Pigs are notoriously unfussy eaters although I don't think they're quite as hardy. 

 

Geese make excellent 'watch dogs' apparently.

 

That's how I see it anyway.