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Typha

Primitive Zombie/NPC detection

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I won't go over stuff like tripwire and traps, because that's been talked about already, but animals detecting other entities. If animals are implemented into the game, they need more then just carry and attack to be useful enough to feed and tame. Dogs would be able to detect survivors by the motion of the tail, the lower the tail is, the closer to an survivor you are. And cats could play the same part, but for zombies. Leaving a cat within a home would be a good detector for a survivor, rather then patrol around the house, risking more noise and attention. Perhaps if airborn toxins are made a threat within the game, birds could detect that.

These primitive forms of detection would give a greater role to finding and taming animals, not to mention feeding them and keeping them alive. If pets are implemented, chances are you could probably use it for fighting and hauling... but realistically those kinds of tasks for an animal seem pathetic, a human can comparably fight and haul just as effective as any tamable animal. What sets humans to desire and need animals in a work place are for the animals keen senses. Obviously some animals fall out of that category, like beasts of burden and livestock. But as far as a pet, chances are you would rely on the dog's perception of other survivors near by, rather then the little back pack it can carry.

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It might sound kinda gamy for a dog to detect survivors and a cat to detect zombies, but think about it this way. Dogs are typically carnivores (Hunters) so the kind of prey they would be good at detecting would be alive. Cats are bred from omnivores (Scavengers) so the kind of prey they would be good at detecting would be dead. Survivors are alive, zombies are dead. Its also a hidden desire of mine to see cats implemented in the game, and not just as a useless pet or something to hunt 

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Pets are planned.

 

The only way I could see the dog detection thing working isif it only works with certain dogs and would be quite vague.

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Im pretty sure that would just make pets a fun gimmick. I'd like to think the developers would invest there time on game content that deepens the stratagy of the game or bug fixes. If what you say is true and pets are going to be added, then this seems like a gimmick and most of the animals will just be sprite decoration for the home. The tail would obviously have to be animated for its tail wags (unless they are going to be extremely lazy) You would be able to see the tail in 3 angles as it wags, if its perked up, no ones around, but when its lowered, that would be the indicator for other entities near by.

 

Having different breeds do different things might sound fun and realistic at first, but then you ultimately lower the effectiveness of the pet

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nope, I've only heard stories of the fabled creatures


in all honesty my cat hates when ANYTHING comes near the house window, it will just start cackling. My old cat used to patrol the house outside, looking for dead animals. My friends dog hates anyone who comes near the house, may it be leaf or person. Now i know animals, just like people are VERY diverse, but guess what, this is a video game and continuity needs to overrule realism.

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Then that explains it. Pets would be extremely valuable and useful. I would explain why but I have to go, may add some more later.

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I'm not sure what you are trying to say, different breeds would do different things? or an animal would have a base trait, and training would be the factor for the usefulness?

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i gotcha, i just think a reliable detector would be a good feature for these animals. Maybe even just sound indicator, "Bark bark" oh, someone must be near by, "Hiss Hiss" oh, must be a zombie wondering around outside

 

When I loot a house, typically i knock on each and every door so it stirs up the zombies, allowing me to know roughly how many zombies are in the house. This causes a lot of noise as you can imagine, so the idea of sending my cat into a house and see how it reacts puts the pet beyond just being a cute tag along to a duality of survival, something that becomes required to the specific survivor. The same can be said about vehicles within the game, they don't just offer an easy enhancement, it offers a symbiosis that simply tears at the players heart to separate with, but the player is required to keep it sustained

 

I see the need for an additional walking bag or battle buddy, but as I stated earlier that's not much of a reason to feed and take care of those animals in a game perspective way. Having to choose between an extra bag or eating for a few more weeks seems like a hard choice, but choosing between to eat or to reliably detect entities seems like a much harder decision

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I'm not sure how cats would be used outside of pets, something for comfort. The cat's I've 'known' have been pretty different in how they react. Some are really social and some were borderline psychotic and hissed if I went anywhere near them.

 

They're also inherently untrainable so unless they were coded with different behaviors I don't know how that would work.

 

Dogs could be quite interesting. If you started the game with a dog and that dog is a barker[1] then you're just not going to live unless the dog remains. If you got a dog in later game, a stray then it's possible you could train him to not bark at threats which would potentially have the opposite effect. You would train him to growl.

 

[1] You know the kind, the kind that never shuts up!

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your missing the point. All animals, like all humans act differently. But because this is a game and it tries to cater to realism, I went for the biological eating habits of the feline and the canine species. Naturally they would hiss or bark at something they would associate as food. Wild dogs are said to still hunt live game. But wild cats usually don't have the luxury of being around small rodents, so they are mostly scavengers, eating dead animals.


If you don't believe a cat can live off a carcass of a human, then you've never heard of any cat ladies (the crazy, hundred cat owner ones)

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You're right, I am missing the point. No problems though. I'll keep reading. I'm sure from your interaction with others it'll become clearer.

 

I agree with you, I'd certainly love to see pets though.

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They're also inherently untrainable so unless they were coded with different behaviors I don't know how that would work.

This is quite a fallacy I'm sorry to say. Cat's are very trainable, but require a different approach to dogs and aren't actually easy to train and aren't as obedient.

 

 

I had two cats when I was younger and I trained the other one to fetch a ball and other to jump obstacles and both would follow me by calling and sit/lay down by command. When I get my next one I'm definitely going to see how far I can train it. This isn't something everyone knows how to approach though, so shouldn't be necessarily implemented because of that. Although I'd love to see an animal training mod some day!

 

Also @Typha, cats don't hiss when they see prey. They are very quiet indeed. They rather creep up as close as possible without noise and jump on the target. Cats usually hiss when they are threatened and/or cornered. Also when a cat senses danger it hides. Iirc Max Brooks' zombie survival guide says that animals somehow do sense that zombies are not edible, but don't react to them any differently than any other animals or beings. If they feel threatened they respond correctly. A regular cat isn't really useful other than as a companion and rodent repellent/retriever, but I'd like to have one anyway in my zombie game. :)

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Fair enough. It's not common though, certainly not that I've seen. I've not seen cat trained to do anything other than use a litter tray.

 

I guess my next point would be. Is this a skill that most people would know. That's often something I base my suggestions on.

 

Thanks again.

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Fair enough. It's not common though, certainly not that I've seen. I've not seen cat trained to do anything other than use a litter tray.

 

I guess my next point would be. Is this a skill that most people would know. That's often something I base my suggestions on.

 

Thanks again.

 

You could argue of training through conditioning. For example I take out a brush and tap it on the ground cats come running towards me. Since I took out a brush (which I know they will come to) and they associate it with something enjoyable. It's how pets pick up bad traits, it's the way we interact with them and condition them. If you have/had a cat I guarantee that you trained them through a little conditioning, but were probably unaware of what you were doing.

 

Dogs beg for food, if they know you are likely to give them food, as demonstrated in the past. By giving them food after they beg, they see it as an action for them to get food. It's admittedly not in your face training, but I would argue it's training all the same.

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Ah but not dogs, I was never referring to dogs. Dogs are a lot easier to train. I admit, I've never really tried to train a cat because it's not as easy, I didn't think it was realistically possible.

 

It's easy to train a dog. They're pretty responsive.

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Ah but not dogs, I was never referring to dogs. Dogs are a lot easier to train. I admit, I've never really tried to train a cat because it's not as easy, I didn't think it was realistically possible.

 

It's easy to train a dog. They're pretty responsive.

 

I was just using the dog as an example of teaching through conditioning rather than proper training. Since I imagine if someone owns a dog they have had them beg before, or been a pain in the ass when they are begging. It was just a way of getting the point across.

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But isn't all training through conditioning?

 

That's the method I'd use. Prompt the dog/cat to do something then reward it affection/token of food when it completes it.

 

That way the dog/cat associates the command, the behavior and the action with the pleasure of the food. I understand what you're saying.

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But isn't all training through conditioning?

 

That's the method I'd use. Prompt the dog/cat to do something then reward it affection/token of food when it completes it.

 

That way the dog/cat associates the command, the behavior and the action with the pleasure of the food. I understand what you're saying.

 

Unintentional training through conditioning then. You know, you are not intending to teach the pet about something or learn certain actions to repeat. However, your actions unintetional make the pet think it's something they should do to get rewarded.

 

Basically my point is all animals are trained by their owners whether intentional or not. Are cats harder to train? I don't belive they are. Since like anything else you just need to be approaching it from the right angle.

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I don't waste time training my dogs to do parlor tricks. I train them to hunt, alert when danger is around, protect me and my property, etc. I guess someone might train their dog to play dead, but I can't see the point to it save for entertainment.

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They're also inherently untrainable so unless they were coded with different behaviors I don't know how that would work.

This is quite a fallacy I'm sorry to say. Cat's are very trainable, but require a different approach to dogs and aren't actually easy to train and aren't as obedient.

 

 

I had two cats when I was younger and I trained the other one to fetch a ball and other to jump obstacles and both would follow me by calling and sit/lay down by command. When I get my next one I'm definitely going to see how far I can train it. This isn't something everyone knows how to approach though, so shouldn't be necessarily implemented because of that. Although I'd love to see an animal training mod some day!

 

Also @Typha, cats don't hiss when they see prey. They are very quiet indeed. They rather creep up as close as possible without noise and jump on the target. Cats usually hiss when they are threatened and/or cornered. Also when a cat senses danger it hides. Iirc Max Brooks' zombie survival guide says that animals somehow do sense that zombies are not edible, but don't react to them any differently than any other animals or beings. If they feel threatened they respond correctly. A regular cat isn't really useful other than as a companion and rodent repellent/retriever, but I'd like to have one anyway in my zombie game. :)

 

 

I agree completely with your statement, it is a falacy that cats can't be trained. Also perhaps the cat lowers its tail down when a zombie is near? I amit I was only thinking gamy when it came to cats hissing at zombies, because you are right, they stalk their prey and wouldn't make noise

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It might sound kinda gamy for a dog to detect survivors and a cat to detect zombies, but think about it this way. Dogs are typically carnivores (Hunters) so the kind of prey they would be good at detecting would be alive. Cats are bred from omnivores (Scavengers) so the kind of prey they would be good at detecting would be dead. Survivors are alive, zombies are dead. Its also a hidden desire of mine to see cats implemented in the game, and not just as a useless pet or something to hunt 

 

Dogs are scavengers and omnivores by the way, and cats are carnivores and hunters. Just look at their teeth or anything about their dietary needs from the spca or such.

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It might sound kinda gamy for a dog to detect survivors and a cat to detect zombies, but think about it this way. Dogs are typically carnivores (Hunters) so the kind of prey they would be good at detecting would be alive. Cats are bred from omnivores (Scavengers) so the kind of prey they would be good at detecting would be dead. Survivors are alive, zombies are dead. Its also a hidden desire of mine to see cats implemented in the game, and not just as a useless pet or something to hunt 

 

Dogs are scavengers and omnivores by the way, and cats are carnivores and hunters. Just look at their teeth or anything about their dietary needs from the spca or such.

 

 

wrong. Cats eat plants to keep their digestion regulated, wild dogs hunt in packs. You don't see cats hunt in packs so they have to go for small animals. I've had many different cats in my life and they all had different eating behaviors. But they ALL loved to eat grass and cooked carrots. Some of my cats would eat ANYTHING and others would only eat the hard food.

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If you give a husky a little sled it could probably pull a lot more than 2 Big Hiking Bags full of stuff. It would also have a lot of fun doing it ^_^ A bloodhound would be good for detecting zombies, npcs and other animals, a border collie could make sure your livestock doesn't run away, etc. Humanity has had a lot of time to bend the wolf to our needs! I can't wait for dogs and NPC's to be added.

 

Cats and dogs eat vegetables but cats are usually less interested. They only reason domesticated dogs and cats eat more vegetables than their wild relatives is because of our influence on their diets over the years.

Even wild/large cats and dogs/wolves probably nibble on grass and stuff every now and again to add some fiber to their diet.

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