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Clean Rain


Jesse

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A quick forum search didn't pull up any results for this so I thought I would put it out there.

 

Rain is supposed to be pure, clean water. So it makes no sense at all to me that Rain Collector Barrels and open containers placed outside during rain storms fill up with Tainted Water and not clean water. I can completely understand water from the river or small lakes and ponds being tainted and needing to be boiled first, but why are we needing to boil rain water??

 

The only possible reason you might need to boil rain water would be pollution, but everything is shut down here. There are no factories spewing out pollution when the population is dead, so it just makes no sense to me why we have to jump through this extra hoop to get clean water or die for skipping it.

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It takes a while for the water to get rid of pollutants. Even now IRL in many countries you cannot just drink rainwater, it is dangerous. A cool mechanic would be if after a year or so the drinking water was no longer tainted.

 

Also while we're at it: Please let snow fill rain barrels.

The caveat is, that you need to warm it up for it to turn into water.

Edited by Gurluas
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Not a great idea to drink stagnant water that is exposed to the elements. Yes rain water is mostly pure, but the surfaces it falls on to collect it are not.

 

The open containers in PZ that it is stored in are not a safe source to drink from. Bacteria, parasites, insect larva, and even viruses would thrive in that environment. Animals have access to it and birds could be pooping in it. And in the real world (as noted above) there would be a slew of pollution concerns - but thats not an issue for PZ. 

 

If you had a sterilized and sealed water storage system that filters water prior to storing it, then that would likely be safe to drink. 

 

An open air barrel of water? No, please don't drink from that without treating it first. 

 

This could open the door for different ways to sterilize water. We could have the option to build charcoal filters. Put some sand, rocks, gravel, and charcoal together and put the water through that before it goes into the water storage container. Could also use bleach to sterilize the water. About 8 drops of bleach for each gallon of water should make it sterilized and safe to drink. Could also introduce water purification tablets. 

 

Feel free to tilt your head back and drink during a rain storm (good luck quenching your thirst this way - but better than nothing), but you're rolling the dice if you have an open container that you collect rain water with and then drink it. 

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Ok, but leaving a bucket outside during a storm and then drinking what it catches a few hours later is not going to kill you. Unless we're in the center of dozens of unregulated factories, which we're not, then drinking rain water should not be nearly as leathal as this game makes it. Hell, any survival expert will tell you rainwater is the safest thing to drink when you're stranded, but game treats it as poisoning yourself.

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5 hours ago, Toshis said:

Isnt it strange how all animals can drink from rivers, ponds, etc, except only humans cant. Well, we can, but risk getting sick. Guess our stomach acid is too weak.


Natural selection. We don’t really track how many animals die in the wild from dysentery but it happens. The ones that don’t die are the ones left to breed. Their offspring are more likely to have the resistance that their parents had to keep them alive.

 

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On 2/3/2022 at 2:17 AM, CaptKaspar said:

This link talks only about rainwater collected from your roof via eavestroughs. Of course that would be dirty. This is very different from just setting a clean pot or barrel outside.

 

Here is a quote from a website about survival:
"Collecting and drinking rainwater is one of the safest ways to get hydrated without risk of bacterial infection, this is especially true in wild, rural areas."

So if every single survival book and show tells you to collect rainwater to survive, why are we poisoned by it in the game?

Edited by Jesse
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2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

This link talks only about rainwater collected from your roof via eavestroughs. Of course that would be dirty. This is very different from just setting a clean pot or barrel outside.


I do not know how else to explain this to you. Do not drink stagnant untreated water. 

 

First, how sterile is that pot or rain barrel? What did you do to sterilize it? What did you clean it with? The same stagnant untreated water? 
 

Second, you want to drink the stagnant water that has been sitting exposed to the elements/environment for days, weeks, months? It will be exposed to bacteria, algae, parasites, insects larvae and animal excretions. 
 

Last time I am going to say this; Do not drink stagnant untreated water. I am not going to try to explain this further or continue any additional discourse on this topic.
 

Natural selection trying to do its work here. 

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Yes, let's throw all the survival books in the world out the window because drinking rainwater out of a clean pot is definitely the same as drinking out of a stagnant puddle. And while you were busy trying to compare two very different things, I've been researching the validity of collecting rainwater during the 1900s when this game takes place. Specifically the general air quality of the US and how it might impact the collection of rainwater. As it turns out, there is actually very little air pollution in the US during this time period, meaning collecting rainwater for drinking would be completely safe.

 

So my point about being able to collect rainwater without it immediately being tainted stands. This would be especially true in a world where all factories have shut down.

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34 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Yes, let's throw all the survival books in the world out the window because drinking rainwater out of a clean pot is definitely the same as drinking out of a stagnant puddle. And while you were busy trying to compare two very different things, I've been researching the validity of collecting rainwater during the 1900s when this game takes place. Specifically the general air quality of the US and how it might impact the collection of rainwater. As it turns out, there is actually very little air pollution in the US during this time period, meaning collecting rainwater for drinking would be completely safe.

 

So my point about being able to collect rainwater without it immediately being tainted stands. This would be especially true in a world where all factories have shut down.


I said I would not continue this argument, but you are spreading disinformation and its important to call it out.

 

”All the survival books in the world”? Show me one that tells you to drink stagnant water that was collected in a pot or a barrel without treating it. 
 

If you read any of these books you would know that they highly encourage you to filter/treat ANY water source you consume. If you can not filter/treat it; you are encouraged to collect your water from a non-stagnant source, such as a moving body of water like a stream, to reduce the likelihood of potentially harmful bacteria and parasites. Thats what the books your referencing actually say. You can make an effective water filter using sand, gravel, and charcoal. Its in those survival books. 
 

Your pot on the ground is not clean, or won’t be for long. Neither is the barrel thats been open to the elements for days, weeks, or months. It is an open air container. Did you know that the simple act of raindrops hitting the ground cause bacteria to be ejected into the atmosphere via aerosols? These aerosols will move about with the winds. 
 

https://news.mit.edu/2017/light-rain-spread-soil-bacteria-0307
 

Algae spores are also carried by the wind. 
 

Have you ever considered how these things spread? 
 

Also it is encouraged that you do not leave stagnant pools of water around your property because these become breeding grounds for insects and parasites. You want to drink that without treatment? 
 

Yes, you can tilt your head back and drink straight raindrops safely. 
 

For the last time though, do not drink stagnant water that has been sitting exposed to the elements. Don’t trust me? Read some survival books.

 

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Here's yet another survival website: https://americasurvival.org/guide/how-to-find-water-in-the-wilderness/

 

And I'll quote the section on collecting rainwater: 

"Collecting Rainwater
Rainwater is a great source of keeping yourself hydrated in the wild. It is not only the safest but also a convenient way when compared with other options. The reason is that rainwater has a very minimal chance of being contaminated by bacteria. If you find yourself in a tropical rainforest, consider yourself lucky.

It is because tropical rainforests receive a lot of rainfall. That means that you can easily collect a good amount of water to hydrate yourself.

There are two ways in which you can collect rainwater effectively. The first method includes collecting rainwater in a container or anything that can hold water. If you happen to have your coffee mug with you, it would be enough to store quite a bit of rainwater.

Another way of collecting rainwater is by using a tarp. All you need to do is tie it around some trees a few feet above the ground. Now, place a small rock in the center of the tarp to create depression and allow the rainwater to collect."

 

Wow, very informative about collecting rainwater, and it says nothing about needing to sterilize what is already clean. What now? Are you going to claim this all lies and misinformation as well? We get it, stagnant water is bad. That does not mean we are all AIDS patients without immune systems. All these survivalists talking about rainwater being safe to drink are just trying to kill us I guess.

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5 hours ago, Jesse said:

We get it, stagnant water is bad. That does not mean we are all AIDS patients without immune systems. 

 

You are correct that your immune system may protect you. However, if the water was perfectly safe to drink your immune system wouldn't be needed. Since our immune system is needed, why not make it easier on it and just treat the water? 

 

Do not drink from a water source that looks like this without treating the water first. Yes it is a better source of water than some. That does not mean it should be considered potable. 

 

1850225319_rainbarrel.JPG.4dbbfede7d432303ff0b9ca69df3d3d8.JPG

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The rain falling out of the sky is not toxic. It should not be considered toxic the instant it lands in a container specifically built for catching it. You seem unable or unwilling to understand that concept. If you want to make a suggestion for water to become tainted over time, you are welcome to do that in a separate thread if it does not already exist. This suggestion thread is about rainwater itself being an extremely safe and clean source of fresh water, which you cannot deny after I have literally quoted a survival guide on the topic. Stop trying to drag an unrelated topic here.

Edited by Jesse
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9 hours ago, Jesse said:

The rain falling out of the sky is not toxic. It should not be considered toxic the instant it lands in a container specifically built for catching it. You seem unable or unwilling to understand that concept. If you want to make a suggestion for water to become tainted over time, you are welcome to do that in a separate thread if it does not already exist. This suggestion thread is about rainwater itself being an extremely safe and clean source of fresh water, which you cannot deny after I have literally quoted a survival guide on the topic. Stop trying to drag an unrelated topic here.


I am exactly on topic here.

 

It does not matter that a container is specifically built to collect water or not in regards to that water being potable or not once in the barrel. Its function of collecting water does not mean that the container is free of microbes. It is an open air system placed outside and is exposed. The rain barrels in game are not designed for potable water. They are designed to collect water that can be used for irrigation and later treated to make potable. The game has this right. 
 

How long has that rain barrel been in the middle of your yard? Do you have a lid/cover for it? How long has the water from the last rain been sitting in it stagnant and exposed to the environment with its wide range of nasties that can get in it? It only rains a few inches at a time at best. It takes multiple rain events to fully fill a rain barrel (in PZ and in real life). Any additional fresh rain that falls into that barrel is now contaminated as well. 
 

If you want to suggest that we should have covers for the rain barrels for when its not raining, that we should flush out old stagnant untreated water before each rain event, and that we sterilize the container after draining it to make the water more reliably potable for the next rain event, then I’ll get behind ya. Or if we sterilize the water with some bleach/water purification tablets and then put a lid on it, then I could get behind ya. 
 

If having potable water were as simple as putting an uncovered barrel lined with garbage bags in your yard, why doesn’t every house/residence have one for potable water? It would be an extremely cheap and (depending on location) reliable primary/backup potable water source. You could go right out to it and fill yourself a nice fresh glass of water. Ever thought why people don’t do this? Do you know a single person or family that does this? Without treating that water?

Also, just because you found an obscure website that tells you something is safe to do, it doesn’t mean that’s entirely true. Not everything on the internet is entirely accurate or true. Kind of ironic here, but don’t trust everything you read on the internet. Stick to peer-reviewed and accountable sources. While I did link some sources such as the CDC and MIT, I am also married to person who has a master's degree in storm water management from a well respected university. They are employed at a major international engineering company to design systems to handle storm water. They are literally an expert in rain water and have professional credible working knowledge on the subject. I have discussed our conversation with them and they have advised with me with their expert advice on how to respond. 


Yes, tilt your head back and drink rain. Yes to collecting rain in a sterile container and drinking it immediately. No, do not drink water from a stagnant rain barrel that is exposed to the elements (like what is in PZ) without treating that water first. You might get away with it, you might not. Just like in PZ, there is a chance you'll get sick drinking untreated water. 
 

If in doubt, there is no doubt; treat the water. 

Edited by CaptKaspar
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11 hours ago, CaptKaspar said:


I am exactly on topic here.

 

It does not matter that a container is specifically built to collect water or not in regards to that water being potable or not once in the barrel. Its function of collecting water does not mean that the container is free of microbes. It is an open air system placed outside and is exposed. The rain barrels in game are not designed for potable water. They are designed to collect water that can be used for irrigation and later treated to make potable. The game has this right. 
 

How long has that rain barrel been in the middle of your yard? Do you have a lid/cover for it? How long has the water from the last rain been sitting in it stagnant and exposed to the environment with its wide range of nasties that can get in it? It only rains a few inches at a time at best. It takes multiple rain events to fully fill a rain barrel (in PZ and in real life). Any additional fresh rain that falls into that barrel is now contaminated as well. 
 

If you want to suggest that we should have covers for the rain barrels for when its not raining, that we should flush out old stagnant untreated water before each rain event, and that we sterilize the container after draining it to make the water more reliably potable for the next rain event, then I’ll get behind ya. Or if we sterilize the water with some bleach/water purification tablets and then put a lid on it, then I could get behind ya. 
 

If having potable water were as simple as putting an uncovered barrel lined with garbage bags in your yard, why doesn’t every house/residence have one for potable water? It would be an extremely cheap and (depending on location) reliable primary/backup potable water source. You could go right out to it and fill yourself a nice fresh glass of water. Ever thought why people don’t do this? Do you know a single person or family that does this? Without treating that water?

Also, just because you found an obscure website that tells you something is safe to do, it doesn’t mean that’s entirely true. Not everything on the internet is entirely accurate or true. Kind of ironic here, but don’t trust everything you read on the internet. Stick to peer-reviewed and accountable sources. While I did link some sources such as the CDC and MIT, I am also married to person who has a master's degree in storm water management from a well respected university. They are employed at a major international engineering company to design systems to handle storm water. They are literally an expert in rain water and have professional credible working knowledge on the subject. I have discussed our conversation with them and they have advised with me with their expert advice on how to respond. 


Yes, tilt your head back and drink rain. Yes to collecting rain in a sterile container and drinking it immediately. No, do not drink water from a stagnant rain barrel that is exposed to the elements (like what is in PZ) without treating that water first. You might get away with it, you might not. Just like in PZ, there is a chance you'll get sick drinking untreated water. 
 

If in doubt, there is no doubt; treat the water. 

 

You keep talking about water collection container being outside for many days, weeks or moths. How about this: It starts raining, I take clean pot from home and put it in the rain for 1 or 2 hours until it gets full. Then bring it back inside for use.

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12 hours ago, Toshis said:

 

You keep talking about water collection container being outside for many days, weeks or moths. How about this: It starts raining, I take clean pot from home and put it in the rain for 1 or 2 hours until it gets full. Then bring it back inside for use.


I think by doing that you will greatly reduce the likelihood of the water being unsafe to drink. 
 

However, after an hour or two you are not going to have a lot of water in that pot. Maybe an inch or so if its a strong downpour. On average it only rains 50 inches a year in Kentucky where the game is located. Since you are not increasing the collection area of the pot you will not have any additional water than what the rainfall rate was. If the rain event dropped an inch of rain over those 1-2 hours then you’ll have an inch or water in your pot. Not a lot. 


How do you know your pot is clean and sterile though? What did you clean it with? If you used soap then you probably just wasted a lot of water. Did you use bleach? A more efficient use of bleach would be to just put a few drops in the water you collected. 

 

If you want to bring that pot in when its full its gonna have to be out there for multiple rain events which could be days, weeks, months. You could bring it in and cover it after the rain stops each time and that would help, but we already established that rain drops themselves cause aerosols which contain bacteria and they can spread this way. Likely you got some in your pot and now you’re letting it sit stagnant between rain events…
 

But back on the situation proposed; you would greatly reduce your risk of getting sick by putting a sterile pot of water out for an hour or two during a rain event. You would not collect much water. Maybe enough for a water bottle if its a strong rain. However if water is in short supply you probably shouldn’t be washing the pot with soap and valuable water. If you used bleach to clean it, its much more efficient just to put a few drops in the water you collect. Rule of thumb is 8 drops per gallon. So maybe just a drop or two in the pot you put outside. 
 

This is a game though and coding in all these nuances is tedious and for what gain? To make the game easier? 
 

Its far simpler to simply say is the water tainted or not? All water not from the pipes (which since treated should be safe for around 6 months or so) is considered tainted. If yes then it must be boiled (I’d like to see bleach used for disinfecting and charcoal filters added as something we can construct). Is water collected outside perfectly safe? Maybe, maybe not. You might get sick. Just like you might get sick drinking it in PZ. 
 

It might not be perfectly accurate, but the developers made this basically correct. 
 

Treat your water or roll the dice - which is what happens in PZ. 

 

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