Crafting Ammo

[Fj45]

 

Doesn't matter how simple the gun is, after a point you just wouldn't be able to repair it any longer. (even if you had the tools, materials and knowledge of how to do it)

 

That factory wouldn't be entirely automated, it would shut down (or fail horribly) after a short time. Then there's the fact that the owner or workers would just shut it down. Even if it somehow had a huge surplus of guns, it would be looted a million times before you got there.

 

Crafting ammo, no matter how you twist the words, is very difficult.

 

I'm not even really sure what to say here... you may want to think about that a little more.  

Apparently in zomboid, you're the only human alive inside of the Knox Exclusion Zone...

Nothing would be looted...

 

 

Uhh, no, where the hell did that come from? Even if you were the only survivor (your not) it would be looted as each town starts to get overrun.

[Rathlord]

And by gun factory i mean not turning it on, but it having a ton of surplus guns in supply because the gun making-machines never turned off, and made hundreds of guns before running out of  resources and power.

 

That's not how that works.

 

 

Casting ammo is not hard, grinding down primers and getting sulfur for black power is the hard part.

 

That's not how that works. You can't even use black powder in modern bullets; this is the case and point of this entire discussion. You would be dead, because you don't know what you're doing. That's the entire reason this idea is so wrong.

 

 

And some museums should have working weapons from past wars, with limited amounts of water, soviet era Rpg's, Nazi era machine guns, Veitnam era grenades, civil war cannons, ect. 

 

That's not how that works. For one thing, museums don't keep functional weapons around- they're kept plugged, with the actions removed, are replicas, etc. And even if they did work, you wouldn't have any ammunition that worked in them. Do you really think museums keep live explosives sitting around?

[Fj45]

Need to remember that line.

[Renham]

very likely... is not  so complex to make ammo... to make a good quality ammo.. yeah but you need some notions... as I said in other threads... in zomboid world... you will have lots of time to read and learn new skills... which will make your life easier...

making ammo is one of them.

[Fj45]

Did you read the thread? There are more factor then just time. Even if you did have it.

 

 

Also.....this......is.....not.....proper......formatting.....and.....makes....my.....brain.....hurt.

[The_One_And_Only]

 

And by gun factory i mean not turning it on, but it having a ton of surplus guns in supply because the gun making-machines never turned off, and made hundreds of guns before running out of  resources and power.

 

That's not how that works.

 

 

Casting ammo is not hard, grinding down primers and getting sulfur for black power is the hard part.

 

That's not how that works. You can't even use black powder in modern bullets; this is the case and point of this entire discussion. You would be dead, because you don't know what you're doing. That's the entire reason this idea is so wrong.

 

 

And some museums should have working weapons from past wars, with limited amounts of water, soviet era Rpg's, Nazi era machine guns, Veitnam era grenades, civil war cannons, ect. 

 

That's not how that works. For one thing, museums don't keep functional weapons around- they're kept plugged, with the actions removed, are replicas, etc. And even if they did work, you wouldn't have any ammunition that worked in them. Do you really think museums keep live explosives sitting around?

 

Sorry for not knowing the name of a special kind of gunpowder.

This game is not in the real world, if it were you would have to piss and shit. Zombies would stink so much you would vomit from being around them, there would be people running around lighting shit on fire. Zombies would slowly rot away, there would be crashed and working cars everywhere, and there would be dead bodies everywhere, they don't gotta be that realistic.

[Fj45]

Nice strawman there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Rathlord]

Calm your shit Fj45 XD

 

The_One_And_Only, just because the game isn't absolutely realistic doesn't mean it doesn't strive for realism. There's a difference between cutting out bodily functions (because they're pointless and micro-manage-y) and adding in something entirely unrealistic just because you think it's cool. Also, cars will be added in the future. As will NPC's. And there's already bodies. So.

 

Once again, if you want an arcade shooter that fails to follow any pretense of realism, PZ isn't the game for you. I don't say that lightly; this is a fantastic game that I think everyone should play. But it's not the game to try to shove things in just because you want it.

[Fj45]

Dayz= simulator

 

Project Zomboid= realistic

 

Dead Rising= arcade.

[Foxtrot]

I do reload.  I have an 1897 Argentine Mauser that uses 8.75 Argentine.  My love for the rifle as my shooter and my hunting rifle forced me into reloading.  A few misconceptions going on here.

 

Dies - You have to have specific dies for each type of round you want to make.  This is not something you can make.

 

Powder - Very specific in which powder is needed.

 

Reloading book-log ect.  I know how to load "MY" gun with "MY" setup - as I went from a 160g to a 180g round.  But I do not remember how to even load up the 160g to be safe, much less a 9mm.  I would need to know the specs in order to reload something else.

 

Bench - Easy, peasey to find those.  But its worthless without the dies.

 

Copper Coil - You need good copper, and not something you can just melt down and roll some up.  If you have voids in the copper (cracks, weak areas, parts that are not heated correctly and get brittle or remain to soft) you are gonna have a fun time pulling gun parts outa yer face.  Also when the power goes out, I am pretty sure that all the noise from the forge as well as the metal pounding would pull the Z world ontop of you.

 

Primer caps - Yeah, its magical, and I wouldn't even know where to begin' making it.

 

Casing - Spent casing is easy if you have the dies, you can just re-neck it.  If you are making yer own from scratch, not happening.

 

To sum it all up, as said in another post.  When the world crashes down, if you do not have the stuff already and know what you are doing before, you will only have the ammo that you find.  

 

Also, bullets are a bit OP and highly "universal" in the game.  I think this more than compensates for not being able to craft ammo.

[Rathlord]

Well stated Foxtrot.

[uberevan]

You should make a poll and see how many people know how to make their own ammunition. If a majority says yes, than I'd say it's doable. If the majority says no (like me) then I wouldn't bet the Average Joe you are in the game could either.

[American Steel]

You should make a poll and see how many people know how to make their own ammunition. If a majority says yes, than I'd say it's doable. If the majority says no (like me) then I wouldn't bet the Average Joe you are in the game could either.

 

I know how to "press" shells for shotguns.  My father taught me when I was a lad.  I have seen cartridge ammo pressed, but I have never done it.  So I guess I fit in the "I know how to" crowd.  However, I don't have ANY of the materials on hand to make that happen right now.  If Z Day rolled around, I would be looking for finished ammo not the dozen raw materials and a bench to make that happen.  Also, while it may be "doable" it also has consequence for failure.  Pressing out rounds on a bench is a delicate and precise operation.  Making black powder projectiles for modern firearms is not...

 

 

If you want to see how technical it is to reload your own ammo here is a good link.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/how-to-get-started-reloading-ammunition/

[Foxtrot]

That link is a great primer to reloading.

 

See what I did there?  

[Renham]

ok.. im done with your bullshit... making guns is easy as fuck... let me introduce you the most basic model of working shotgun ever,

 

 

hand made shotgun... just a bunch of steel pipes and welding and thats it. a fucking shotgun...

and you know what? the most fucking stupid criminals in my country can make one of this using the crap they have in their houses.

so dont tell me you need to be a fucking rocket scientist to make a working gun.

 

and also they tend to make their own ammo too. 

 

so gunmaking yes... totally possible and ammo making hell yes.

you seem to forget we are in a damn post apocaliptic world... we will have lots of time to learn how to craft shit.. and will save our lives... can a person make a complex shotgun in an afternoon? no so likely... but in a few days? yeah... a mechanic can make a good quality gun... my uncle has almost all the tools you need to make a high quality gun.. and those tools are used to fix some spare parts of cars... so having access to equipment to craft a gun is not that hard... having the knowledge.. just a bit harder... 

but you will most likely become better and better as you practice your skills. 

[Rathlord]

Yet another Bond-watching, fps-playing, YouTube video believing person with no fucking idea how things actually work (and nothing relevant to add to the conversation). This thread isn't even about making your own gun; it's about making your own ammo that fits in modern firearms. Those are not the same thing, and since you obviously no nothing about either one… you should probably stop posting about it.

[Renham]

 

ammo making nuff said. 

 

[syfy]

wow look at that, an expert who has every single bit of the required equipment, all the right powder, the loads, the empty cartridges and everything else makes it look easy. boy, good thing that's what he does every damn day for a living.

 

 

wonder what he would say when asked how easy it would be for someone with ZERO knowledge of the subject, and none of the needed equipment to try and create ammo.

 

i bet he'd laugh his ass of, then tell you not to try it without proper supervision...or better yet just don't try it at all, let the pros do what they do best.

[ApolloDiaspora]

Easiest way to sum this up? Nope. You're not going to be pressing your own ammo, or loading your own rounds. You -might- be able to make a blunderbuss or a sten-style gun if your character had the foreknowledge (i.e: blueprints) and tools, but making the ammo is an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

Making an ad-hoc firearm to fire modern ammo? Reasonably easy, if you're careful and don't mind the odd explosion.

 

Making ammunition to fit modern firearms? No. You -might- be able to scrape up some blackpowder from nitrates and whatnot, but not firearm grade stuff. However, finding tins of gunpowder, you might be able to load a homemade blunderbuss with it, if, again, you don't mind the risk of it exploding in your face. In short, too hard to code in, not that realistic, and it doesn't add much to the game anyway. Better to keep scrounging for bullets

[Foxtrot]

Renham.... So.....

Load data needed (the book).  Check.

Did not see him roll his own brass, he re necked..  also assume he purchased the brass as I didn't see a rolling/heating station AND its what almost all re-loaders do if they are pressing their own rounds.

Did not see him cast his own dyes.

Did not create his own powder/lube/ ect.  These were all purchased.  Assume in game that these are attached to the bench as it would be stored near it supposedly, so we could nil that point out... but these would have to be replenished.

 

As stated, you can reload easy in today's world with UPS delivering you the materials and you have access to the data you need.  But come the zombie apocalypse I am pretty sure you can't YouTube the instructions to make it happen.

 

Here is an example, I could put you down at my bench, hand you all the materials I have (which is everything needed) and I stand firm that without instruction you will not even be able to figure out the powder load or what primer to put in what round.  You would hurt/kill yourself as well as damage the gun beyond repair.

 

About homemade guns:

Sure, they 'work'.  Are they accurate?  No.  Are they safe, HELL NO.  Would I use one in the apocalypse?  Yes, if absolutely necessary.  Could I make one without the help of Youtube/internet/ and power?  Nope.  Encyclopedias (if people even keep them anymore) do not cover that kinda stuff.

[American Steel]

ok.. im done with your bullshit... making guns is easy as fuck... let me introduce you the most basic model of working shotgun ever,

 

 

hand made shotgun... just a bunch of steel pipes and welding and thats it. a fucking shotgun...

and you know what? the most fucking stupid criminals in my country can make one of this using the crap they have in their houses.

so dont tell me you need to be a fucking rocket scientist to make a working gun.

 

and also they tend to make their own ammo too. 

 

so gunmaking yes... totally possible and ammo making hell yes.

you seem to forget we are in a damn post apocaliptic world... we will have lots of time to learn how to craft shit.. and will save our lives... can a person make a complex shotgun in an afternoon? no so likely... but in a few days? yeah... a mechanic can make a good quality gun... my uncle has almost all the tools you need to make a high quality gun.. and those tools are used to fix some spare parts of cars... so having access to equipment to craft a gun is not that hard... having the knowledge.. just a bit harder... 

but you will most likely become better and better as you practice your skills. 

 

As Rathlord said, we are talking about ammo not firearms.  But I will play your game.  If you want to make a zip gun using a few pipes and a nail for a firing pin, it is doable.  They also fail.  Sometimes tragically.  They also have ranges shorter than the take an arrow to the knee jokes.  Some guy out on the street with zero experience and zero contacts, never did say, "I think I will make a zip gun tomorrow?"  Someone taught the criminals how to make it. We don't have the criminal undercurrent still running around in Kentucky... because they are all zombies when by the time the Z Day hits.  Also, I am not buying a mechanic can make a good quality gun.  If it was that easy, mechanics would be gun smiths... which they are not.  Gunsmithing is an exact science, not pulling spark plugs or changing an oil filter (which I can do, lol).  While they may share some of the same tools they don't share them all.  Hell, I have a wrench and a pair of plyers at my house.  So that means I can make a good quality gun?  I have some of the tools and I have rebuilt a hummer engine in Bosania.... sign me up as a Gunsmith.  Next thing you will tell me is because I have put gutters on my house I am a skilled metal worker!?!?!

 

As far as some relative making a high quality gun?  Sell that bridge to someone else because I am not buying it.  This tells me you are living in your parents house.  You see adults stand up for what they can do, not give excuses for their own failings and try to prop themselves up by saying somebody ELSE can do it. You see this little bit...

 

a mechanic can make a good quality gun... my uncle has almost all the tools you need to make a high quality gun.. and those tools are used to fix some spare parts of cars... so having access to equipment to craft a gun is not that hard

 

You uncle is a mechanic, because he uses those tools to fix spare parts on cars and a mechanic can make a good quality gun.  So, you uncle could make a high quality gun.  Right?!  You can blow smoke about skills and never have to own up to any of it.  It is like a comfortable fiction, that only you will happily swallow.  However, if your auto mechanic uncle also runs a back street chop shop for High Quality firearms, I would be interested.  I think a Sig Sauer P226 remake out of a BMW i8 would have a certain, je ne sais quoi.  Maybe an old Mustang into a Glock 20, you get the big bloc power for the 10mm and but the Glock handling.  Lets not transfer any fastback lines into the Glock, it would just throw the whole balance off.  Ask him if I can get the classic red and white leather interior in a pistol rig on that Mustang, because my old one has seen better days.  PM me.

[Renham]

my point is... its possible? fucking possible,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

the thing is... unless you get a lot of practice on doing improvised weapons or become a really good gunsmith

you might not get good results.

 

about ammunition

 

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/how-to-get-started-reloading-ammunition/ 

its the same thing realoading ammo and so is hard not impossible... can be learned

althou need practice and experience just like everything else in life.

 

the thing that botters me is like you are been like.. nope fucking impossible

no human can make ammo... thats fucking witchcraft nothing else. 

[Foxtrot]

my point is... its possible? fucking possible,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

the thing is... unless you get a lot of practice on doing improvised weapons or become a really good gunsmith

you might not get good results.

 

about ammunition

 

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/how-to-get-started-reloading-ammunition/ 

its the same thing realoading ammo and so is hard not impossible... can be learned

althou need practice and experience just like everything else in life.

 

the thing that botters me is like you are been like.. nope fucking impossible

no human can make ammo... thats fucking witchcraft nothing else. 

 

I am done after responding to this.  

 

Is it impossible to reload modern firearms as a novice without modern convinces?  Nothing is impossible, but HIGHLY improbable.  The chance of harming/killing yourself before making a quality product is HIGH.  Also there is no need to craft ammo in this game as it compensates by having "universal" bullets for all pistols.

 

What does irk me is that some of us have a strong knowledge in the area and explained the difficulties of doing such in a zombie infested end of the world scenario, and you claimed our statements are "bullshit" and threw up some youtube comments that in all honesty did NOT defend your stance at all. 

 

So there it is.

[Rathlord]

the thing that botters me is like you are been like.. nope fucking impossible

no human can make ammo... thats fucking witchcraft nothing else. 

 

I think you should save some face and make your way out of this thread while you have the slightest modicum of dignity left. No one ANYWHERE here said it's not possible for any human to make ammo. In fact, AmericanSteel actually said he makes ammo. I, too, have at least been involved in the process- which is why our opinions actually mean something, and your mostly off topic YouTube videos don't.

 

 

my point is... its possible? fucking possible,

 

Grasping at straws to go with a straw man argument. While I like the symbolism, it still does not a good point made. It's possible to make space ships, lasers,  thermonuclear warheads, and neutron microscopes. That doesn't mean people can make them in the zombie apocalypse, even if they did have the skills necessary.

[Steelshrapnel]

It's pretty easy to make ammo--By that, I mean old style ammo. Lead. Melt it down, put it in a mould, bam. I have a number of friends who hunt with muzzleloaders still. Heck, I have one, albeit it's a newer design. (They still make these things.) So I don't think it'd be too far-fetched. Muzzleloaders are still pretty accurate, though not as long a reach as the guns of today. I've shot a 10 point buck with a muzzleloader. Remarkable firearms, though getting powder can be a bit challenging if you don't know how to find it. Though if you know? Well, you don't have to depend on ammo shops anymore. I make my own ammo for muzzleloaders and my old winchester...Though I'm not sure the devs want it in the game.