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The Nine Tailed Fox

I'll be honest, the whole sneaking system is crap.

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Ok I had a 30-pager ready to post, but it was annoying to read, so here's this. In a hivemind sector called "The Indie Stone" a single unknown entity came with an idea to ruin the sneaking system mid build 41.30-40 for good, so the other hive members obviously agreed and with it came the worst update that I've ever seen  (well the second one, after Spiffos secret sauce 1 which added shaity hitboxes that are here to this freaking day, and a lazy deadly animation/cheap killing mehanic, but that's another story). The update was horrible, a random zombie in a horde far away from you could see you from a looong distance which just RUINED the sprinters experience and overall default gameplay, sneaking skills and traits had no to minimal impact if a zombie is going to see you or not (basically it's random, trait or not) and the other zombies had noticeably increased eyesight, and both of them had to be fixed and polised for 3-4 whole "subupdates" to the point where we are right now, a point where a dead person is going to see you first in the thickest fog before you see them, a point where a starving and 3 months into rotting person (1000% experiencing vitamin A deficiency and with it night blindness) has amazing eyesight even in the middle of the night, a point where you can't sneak around a car undetected and sleep in a car undetected for some god knows what reason (they probably didn't remember to turn off xray when they died). I know that there'll be "But you can change it in sanxbox this, but you can change that..." No, it doesn't work like that, it's as same as asking for that perfect zombie speed that's not:
Shambler - too easy
Fast shambler - easy
Missing zombie speed - hard
Sprinter - difficult
These are the things that would apply to zombies as time goes on (car thing should be fixed etc.) I know that for what the game is right now your biggest threat are and should be zombies, but with NPC's and NPC groups as future threat zombies should degenerate over a year where they would go through a lot of changes and their main herding and threat factor would be very loud noises that would draws thousands of weak, but dangerous in numbers now deteriorated no longer FAST shambling corpses, while you fight someone called Negan. Since thousands of new players got Project Zomboid with the release of b41 and b41 multiplayer, and haven't experienced the past sneaking system, means that this post is more for those who have been here since b41.30 preferably b41.20 and prior, also this topic is not meant for scolding devselopers, but for pinting out some unsatisfying, unbalanced things. One more thing clumsy gives 2 points and graceful takes 4 points, that's not fair.

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Sounds like someone got used to an older version of the game that had some bugs and made some aspects of the game too easy, and now they can't adapt and learn how to survive a harder game. Sneaking system, while missing a few key features like being able to sneak behind say vehicles, works great and does become much more effective as you level up the skill. Don't expect a sneak level 1-3 to do very much on its own, you need to combine it with understanding how to break line of sight/sound, having to get some combat in, etc. Higher sneak levels actually DO have a noticeable impact to gameplay.

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2 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Fog has no effect on zombie sight at this time.

 

The old sneaking system effectively made you invisible when stacked with the bug that halved zombie sight.

 

You are just going to have  to adapt or use sandbox.

Huh interesting, I've got several questions. By "Fog has no effect on zombie sight AT THIS TIME." you're saying that it will have some effect down the road, for example mid build 42?
Will decomposition have any effect on zombie eyesight several months up to a few in-game years survived? Will we ever be able to hide behind cars, I mean actually hide like when you hide behind a building? And will the day ever come when zombies can no longer see you sleeping inside of a vehicle?

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1 hour ago, Axiomatic said:

Sounds like someone got used to an older version of the game that had some bugs and made some aspects of the game too easy, and now they can't adapt and learn how to survive a harder game. Sneaking system, while missing a few key features like being able to sneak behind say vehicles, works great and does become much more effective as you level up the skill. Don't expect a sneak level 1-3 to do very much on its own, you need to combine it with understanding how to break line of sight/sound, having to get some combat in, etc. Higher sneak levels actually DO have a noticeable impact to gameplay.

Well you heard a wrong sound there buddy, I just find sneaking ... unappetizing, for what it's worth and how effective it is, you're better off killing 10 hordes with 4-10 zombies in them each with a knife then sneaking around them and losing a bit of that endurance, thoug sure there are people who would rather take it slowly, miss every life and living show and let all of that food rot in stores so it's not a big deal to lots of players ... cause they barely get to experience it.

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That's a very narrow view of the game and based on how you want to play. Killing instead of sneaking around is not always possible or advisable, and it takes a lot more time than just sneaking around. That much fighting also burns way more calories and you go through weapons faster. If you play with sprinters on, sneaking is an absolute must. Bottom line, the harder you make the game, the more sneaking becomes an asset.

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On 12/26/2021 at 2:27 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

Fog has no effect on zombie sight at this time.

 

The old sneaking system effectively made you invisible when stacked with the bug that halved zombie sight.

 

You are just going to have  to adapt or use sandbox.

What about darkness? Is zombie vision worse in the dark?

And what about rain? Does rain make players less audible to zombies?

 

It would be interesting if thunderstorm made zombies more agitated and scramble around more.

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18 minutes ago, Axiomatic said:

Thunderstorms do get zombies agitated and moving around more than usual migration. 

 

Nice, didnt know that. The last big thunderstorm i experienced had thick fog, rain and it was dark, could barely see what was happening around :)

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sneaking lowers the sound you produce. i dont see how it should affect sight other than crouching behind things for cover.

there is a random option for zombie speeds. you should try that. however, there should be another option for "hard" imo. something other than random.

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It would be nice to see sneaking do morenfor sight reduction, but it's a skill I generally use to move quietly.

 

Crouching and passing by walls makes your character crouch more, but I don't think that is properly coded in a way that actually gives you hard cover. I think you still get spotted if your on the opposite side of a medium picket fence, or pass by windows, or if there is a bonus, I've yet to notice.

 

I'm looking forward to the day, or a mod, as active camouflage, like lying in a field with a ghille suit. Zeds don't eat bushes, and should maybe pass you by.

 

There was a sandbox option a while back to determine zombies sense of smell, but that was taken out, and have no idea if it ever worked.

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i think the new builds incentivize you to wrangle hordes more than anything, seems to be the most effective method for getting to different areas now, though i agree sprinters get pretty fucking impossible. But i also didn't really get the sandbox criticism, why can't you lower the sprinters vision a bit, do you think it's unfair?

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I've only ever played 41 and it all feels just right to me.  What you describe sounds like cheating practically.  That said, if they remove my infinite pancakes in build 42 I'll quit.

 

:wacko:

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