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Survivor Encounters...


glenmack

Poll-o-tics  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. How many NPC characters should there be on a survival map?

    • 1-3
      0
    • 3-5
      2
    • 5-10
      5
    • 10-20
      17
    • 20-50
      31
    • 50+
      50


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When NPC's make their return, I'm imagining there would need to be quite a few in the early days of the game so that a few months in there are at least a few left given the high expected mortality rate.

Personally I found the game much more enjoyable when they were taken out and while I am awed at what I've read about the meta game and potential for interactions, I hope I'm not overwhelmed with NPC's because the lonely atmosphere of the game as it stands is one of its best features IMO.

My question, how many survivors do you think should be in the beginning of an unmodified Survival game?

 

Edit: If you want an idea on how NPC's are planned to be implemented, and you do, because it's cool as hell, you need to read Tales from the Metaverse, I have and I keep re-reading it because I'm sure I've read it wrong, but every time I come to the conclusion that it will be insane.

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I expect the npc survivors will drop like flies, so I'm thinking a high number to start with is the only way you'll manage to encounter any in the lategame.  Though I suppose some survivors could be added lategame under the pretense of just arriving to the town, I like the idea of potential long term npc survivors.  Also, the more npc survivors there are, the more likely you would be to stumble across a stockpile you can steal.  XD

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I think that due to the meta game the npc's wont exactly drop like flies as they will almost be programmed into survive along said storyline unless you come into direct contact with them in which they stop being ruled only in the meta game and are more susceptible to making easy mistakes and then may be more likely to die. This game is hard enough as a human player and the devs will have a tough time making them efficient at surviving 'on screen' as it where then again I may be, or most likely am  wrong...

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I think that due to the meta game the npc's wont exactly drop like flies as they will almost be programmed into survive along said storyline unless you come into direct contact with them in which they stop being ruled only in the meta game and are more susceptible to making easy mistakes and then may be more likely to die. This game is hard enough as a human player and the devs will have a tough time making them efficient at surviving 'on screen' as it where then again I may be, or most likely am  wrong...

As I understand it, the meta game will kill off characters as part of building a history, e.g. Jo's wife is dead because Jack abandoned her to save himself. I think it would go against the spirit of PZ to make them invulnerable till you meet them.

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I am fairly new to this game and haven't played old versions yet where the NPC's were in the game, so I am not really sure how the NPC's would behave and if they would just stay in their houses idle until you come or roam around like you, scavenging stuff. In last case, they would probably die a lot and thus there should either be a lot survivors at the beginning or code the game this way, that always when a survivor dies, another one is randomly generated into the game somewhere. It's also realistic as survivors from other towns might be on a trip somewhere else and make stop at this town, which would explain new survivors.

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I am fairly new to this game and haven't played old versions yet where the NPC's were in the game, so I am not really sure how the NPC's would behave and if they would just stay in their houses idle until you come or roam around like you, scavenging stuff. In last case, they would probably die a lot and thus there should either be a lot survivors at the beginning or code the game this way, that always when a survivor dies, another one is randomly generated into the game somewhere. It's also realistic as survivors from other towns might be on a trip somewhere else and make stop at this town, which would explain new survivors.

 

I was very new to the game when NPC's were in and it wasn't long before they were out, so I'll pass on judging how they were, but from what I've read about the meta game, there's a history being played out off screen, but I don't think it extends to other towns and "new" NPC's.

 

As a point of discussion though, here are some issues I would have with newly generated NPC's if that is the case,

 

a,) Most importantly... I want to be worried there's no-one left. The thing about no new NPC's or a limited amount of them... The best thing about PZ, infact, is the uncertainty. I want to be scared I'm alone.

 

b,) They would HAVE to be bringing supplies, ok maybe one or two just make it to town with nothing left, I would understand, but if everyone arrived with nothing it would stretch credulity, so what's to stop me murdering new peeps, wait for the next NPC and shoot him too. Rinse and repeat.

 

c,) Population cap? There would have to be one, unless you wanted PZ to turn into a Civilization game.

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I expect the npc survivors will drop like flies, so I'm thinking a high number to start with is the only way you'll manage to encounter any in the lategame.  Though I suppose some survivors could be added lategame under the pretense of just arriving to the town, I like the idea of potential long term npc survivors.  Also, the more npc survivors there are, the more likely you would be to stumble across a stockpile you can steal.  XD

hmmm i hadnt thought of that wish i could change my vote lol i think ur right the mortality rate would be high

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I expect the npc survivors will drop like flies, so I'm thinking a high number to start with is the only way you'll manage to encounter any in the lategame.  Though I suppose some survivors could be added lategame under the pretense of just arriving to the town, I like the idea of potential long term npc survivors.  Also, the more npc survivors there are, the more likely you would be to stumble across a stockpile you can steal.  XD

hmmm i hadnt thought of that wish i could change my vote lol i think ur right the mortality rate would be high

 

 

I believe there's a button just underneath the poll to "delete my vote" then you can re-cast it!

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Like others have said, I think it depends on how good they are at staying alive. Regardless, some kind of spawning would probably be necessary either way to simulate people from other towns and to ensure there's always some chance for interesting encounters.

 

If I can stay alive, then so can others. :P

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Like others have said, I think it depends on how good they are at staying alive. Regardless, some kind of spawning would probably be necessary either way to simulate people from other towns and to ensure there's always some chance for interesting encounters.

 

If I can stay alive, then so can others. :P

 

You can't stay alive... That's the whole point of the game.

 

THIS IS HOW YOU DIED.

 

Humanity is over, Humans are and should be a "finite resource" like ammo, or guns, or cars.

 

However, there is always the possibility of being the last one to die

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You can't stay alive... That's the whole point of the game.

 

THIS IS HOW YOU DIED.

 

Humanity is over, Humans are and should be a "finite resource" like ammo, or guns, or cars.

 

However, there is always the possibility of being the last one to die

 

Yeah although I really like that theme phrase "This is how you died". You will eventually always manage to live and survive forever if you are good enough. Only thing to stop this would be taking out farming or rain water and stuff like that or scripted events of a horde raiding and killing you. But that would be unfair.

 

I would also wonder what happens with NPC's if you do a Sandbox game and change the Zombies into Runners and with the hardest difficulty settings. The NPC's are probably going to die off in about 1 ingame hour. And so will you :)

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Yeah although I really like that theme phrase "This is how you died". You will eventually always manage to live and survive forever if you are good enough. Only thing to stop this would be taking out farming or rain water and stuff like that or scripted events of a horde raiding and killing you. But that would be unfair.

 

As I understand it, there's not going to be a "win" scenario and I guess they'll either have to code in natural death, or a continuous difficulty increase, and, personally, that's what I would like to see, leader-board measured in (at most) years, not decades.

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I think the numbers will depend on the NPCs implementation in the game.  They could either be roaming on their own, waiting to be discovered or set to begin activity on an event/timer.  Also will all the people be subject to infection mortality?  Are some of them safe?

 

Roaming on the Own

There will need to be a good number of them, as a vast number will be killed off.  They will be fighting and surviving on their own with the AI implementation.  There needs to be some sort of AI balancing between fighters and fodder. If not, the towns people are just goint to rise up and execute all the Zed.  OR the towns people will die off almost immediately.

 

Waiting for Discovery

Not near as many.  These people are holed up in their own safe houses or fortifications, trying to ride out the shuffling masses.  Maybe it is just a person here or there, maybe half a dozen have secured the Old Warehouse or maybe 50 of them are holding Downtown WP.  Either way, the balance between fighters and fodder will have to maintained.  For example, if you clear out a subdivision and then discover a large home with 4 well armed squatters, they may be able to keep the block clean indefinately.  However, push the four out into the street before the Zeds have been cleared and they could be dead in minutes.

 

Timer/Event.

This is going to be like waiting for discovery except some condition will spawn them.  Maybe that is the players appearance, maybe it is when the water fails, power fails, two weeks pass, planes fly overhead or maybe just a storm.  Maybe the game waits for the player to construct 20 units of fortification and then spawns someone to show up asking for help OR a group of people could show up asking for the all the players toys (and their life).

 

So, until I know more about the NPC implementation I cannot make an educated reponse.

 

NPCs in the game also begs the question of attitudes, reputation and morality.  Are NPCs going to have an set attitude to the player or is eveyone just happy to see another survivior?  Is any sort of reputation system going to be put into play and how is rep transmitted?  What repercussion exists for killing an NPC by neglect or direct violence?  What we can do should impact their deployment.

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I think the numbers will depend on the NPCs implementation in the game.  They could either be roaming on their own, waiting to be discovered or set to begin activity on an event/timer.  Also will all the people be subject to infection mortality?  Are some of them safe?

 

Roaming on the Own

There will need to be a good number of them, as a vast number will be killed off.  They will be fighting and surviving on their own with the AI implementation.  There needs to be some sort of AI balancing between fighters and fodder. If not, the towns people are just goint to rise up and execute all the Zed.  OR the towns people will die off almost immediately.

 

Waiting for Discovery

Not near as many.  These people are holed up in their own safe houses or fortifications, trying to ride out the shuffling masses.  Maybe it is just a person here or there, maybe half a dozen have secured the Old Warehouse or maybe 50 of them are holding Downtown WP.  Either way, the balance between fighters and fodder will have to maintained.  For example, if you clear out a subdivision and then discover a large home with 4 well armed squatters, they may be able to keep the block clean indefinately.  However, push the four out into the street before the Zeds have been cleared and they could be dead in minutes.

 

Timer/Event.

This is going to be like waiting for discovery except some condition will spawn them.  Maybe that is the players appearance, maybe it is when the water fails, power fails, two weeks pass, planes fly overhead or maybe just a storm.  Maybe the game waits for the player to construct 20 units of fortification and then spawns someone to show up asking for help OR a group of people could show up asking for the all the players toys (and their life).

 

So, until I know more about the NPC implementation I cannot make an educated reponse.

 

NPCs in the game also begs the question of attitudes, reputation and morality.  Are NPCs going to have an set attitude to the player or is eveyone just happy to see another survivior?  Is any sort of reputation system going to be put into play and how is rep transmitted?  What repercussion exists for killing an NPC by neglect or direct violence?  What we can do should impact their deployment.

 

Here's what I've gleaned from Tales from the Metaverse...

 

Roaming on their own and waiting for discovery -

 

There will be survivors, and groups of survivors that you can meet up with. NPC's can all form small groups, disband, murder each other, have leaders, conspiracies the whole shabang. It would seem they will have to "survive" in the metaverse, meaning they will have to go out on missions for supplies, this may result in them getting killed. I don't think the developers would think that anyone is prepared for the apocalypse in any way. From what I read, I think everyone has a simulated chance to die. So in short I don't think anyone has the luxury of "waiting" to be discovered, at least, not for long.

 

Timer/Event

 

The way the metaverse is described events have a distinct affect on gameplay, but the way I read the developer blogs it doesn't seem like they would use it as a flag to spawn anything but more zombles.

 

Attitudes and Morality

 

The NPC's will have a list of traits in exactly the same way your character can, and people with opposing traits will naturally dislike each other, yes, there will be an opinion system and every decision you make does impact on the game world, not only that, you can LIE about having done/not done whatever it is.

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You know what i think would be frekin awesome.

 

Instead of right now when you spawn everything is, normal. The outbreak has just begun.

 

You spawn and u immediately notice the cannibalism unfolding and all the zeds are fresh and at their peek condition, fast, strong, keen. So most likely you need to run, and by sunset, if you survived, the town is a already infected. And you (hopefully) and the survivors are actually "survivors".

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You know what i think would be frekin awesome.

 

Instead of right now when you spawn everything is, normal. The outbreak has just begun.

 

You spawn and u immediately notice the cannibalism unfolding and all the zeds are fresh and at their peek condition, fast, strong, keen. So most likely you need to run, and by sunset, if you survived, the town is a already infected. And you (hopefully) and the survivors are actually "survivors".

 

This has been discussed quite a bit in other threads. Short answer, the devs aren't going to work on it, given how hard it would be to code. Just think of all those NPCs that have to act smarter than they would usually have to, to handle the mass exodus and flight. Plus, you would have to be exceptionally lucky to avoid having your brand-new-hidey-hole from being bumrushed by NPCs and the Zeds hot on their tail.

 

It would be a fun game mode to mod in, but, the devs aren't going to work on it, and it would be a cow to make fun.

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Like others have said, I think it depends on how good they are at staying alive. Regardless, some kind of spawning would probably be necessary either way to simulate people from other towns and to ensure there's always some chance for interesting encounters.

 

If I can stay alive, then so can others. :P

 

You can't stay alive... That's the whole point of the game.

 

THIS IS HOW YOU DIED.

 

Humanity is over, Humans are and should be a "finite resource" like ammo, or guns, or cars.

 

However, there is always the possibility of being the last one to die

 

you do know one day you die right? its not just in games 

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You spawn and u immediately notice the cannibalism unfolding and all the zeds are fresh and at their peek condition, fast, strong, keen. 

 

To have a noticeable difference in zed "quality" you would have to survive for about four-five years.

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I've got to say I'm surprised at how divided the vote is, I thought it would be 50+ by a massive margin, but it's a lot closer between that and a slightly smaller number of survivors, I think it may be hard for the devs to keep everyone happy on this one (provided 48 votes are representative of the community as a whole.)

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I've got to say I'm surprised at how divided the vote is, I thought it would be 50+ by a massive margin, but it's a lot closer between that and a slightly smaller number of survivors, I think it may be hard for the devs to keep everyone happy on this one (provided 48 votes are representative of the community as a whole.)

 

NPCs are too undefined at this time. I answered your poll but it was more a guess than anything serious. I assume NPCs will need tweaking. That will include the number of them as well other aspects.  I just don't have a serious response to the poll because I don't know how the NPC system will actually work.

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I think the most fascinating part of the entire thing will be the "emergent behavior" of the system.  Can NPCs learn?  Can they "get better at surviving"?

 

I see an almost evolutionary mechanic happening.  NPCs with weaker characteristics will die.  NPCs with stronger characteristics will survive longer.  If you can survive a month, will the only remaining NPC survivors be crazed sociopaths or will it be only NPCs with strong cooperative traits.

 

The metagame would be fascinating to watch on it's own.  I hope the developers can run metagame simulations to balance the evolution to avoid dominate characteristics in the NPCs.  Keep it crazy.

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I think the most fascinating part of the entire thing will be the "emergent behavior" of the system.  Can NPCs learn?  Can they "get better at surviving"?

 

I see an almost evolutionary mechanic happening.  NPCs with weaker characteristics will die.  NPCs with stronger characteristics will survive longer.  If you can survive a month, will the only remaining NPC survivors be crazed sociopaths or will it be only NPCs with strong cooperative traits.

 

The metagame would be fascinating to watch on it's own.  I hope the developers can run metagame simulations to balance the evolution to avoid dominate characteristics in the NPCs.  Keep it crazy.

 

 

And what will they add to the game? Will they bring happiness (raised mood - less likely for depression)? Will they help grow food and kill zombies? Will they do stupid things like shoot a gun when there is a horde nearby and only a couple of zombies that are a real threat? Will they panic and run or panic and stand still and get eaten? Will they follow orders? 

 

They are more mouths to feed. If you choose to group with NPCs will they help your survivability or will they just eat all the food and you all starve? I could see cooking becoming even more useful. Will there be more recipes like a pot of soup that create four servings instead of just one? I think you will need more. How big of a group could be sustainable? Will they join you or do you join them?

 

Part of me is reluctant to start another game because I don't want to make great progress only to have NPCs added and then I will feel obligated to start again from the beginning. I am also cautiously optimistic about NPCs although it worries me a little that they were in the game and now they are not. I think they will add to the game but only time will tell.

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Part of me is reluctant to start another game because I don't want to make great progress only to have NPCs added and then I will feel obligated to start again from the beginning.

It won't happen soon enough that you'd realistically need to worry about this.

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I think the most fascinating part of the entire thing will be the "emergent behavior" of the system.  Can NPCs learn?  Can they "get better at surviving"?

 

I see an almost evolutionary mechanic happening.  NPCs with weaker characteristics will die.  NPCs with stronger characteristics will survive longer.  If you can survive a month, will the only remaining NPC survivors be crazed sociopaths or will it be only NPCs with strong cooperative traits.

 

The metagame would be fascinating to watch on it's own.  I hope the developers can run metagame simulations to balance the evolution to avoid dominate characteristics in the NPCs.  Keep it crazy.

 

 

And what will they add to the game? Will they bring happiness (raised mood - less likely for depression)? Will they help grow food and kill zombies? Will they do stupid things like shoot a gun when there is a horde nearby and only a couple of zombies that are a real threat? Will they panic and run or panic and stand still and get eaten? Will they follow orders? 

 

They are more mouths to feed. If you choose to group with NPCs will they help your survivability or will they just eat all the food and you all starve? I could see cooking becoming even more useful. Will there be more recipes like a pot of soup that create four servings instead of just one? I think you will need more. How big of a group could be sustainable? Will they join you or do you join them?

 

Part of me is reluctant to start another game because I don't want to make great progress only to have NPCs added and then I will feel obligated to start again from the beginning. I am also cautiously optimistic about NPCs although it worries me a little that they were in the game and now they are not. I think they will add to the game but only time will tell.

 

 

They will be realistic so just think of basic human psychology. Some will be very useful, others a deathtrap.   

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