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The Nine Tailed Fox

I don't like where this game is heading to.

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At first I saw this game as the most potential candidate for the worlds best zombie game (not joking) and that's even way back in B39 IWBUMS now it's B41 IWBUMS and it's probably at the end of it, from then to now every aspect of the game got enriched, but something seriously wrong appeared and it's making me ... ugh how do I say it, not hate this game, but I find it less appealing, maybe annoying too.

Back in the b39 and 40 you weren't forced to die by some lame and cheap mehanics like ones that came in b41. Losing a player actually felt like my responsibility, made me guilty and with these deaths I menaged to learn from mistakes that I made which ended up with me improving my awarenes and survival skill and then geting runs longer then 8+ months which was very satisfying, even if the game had no end you felt like you've acomplished something big when you survived for that long.

NOW even RNG is able to kill you solo by spawning 30 naked zombies in a public restoraunt bathroom?
Or dying to a lunging zombie who's able to trip a grown man who can't even fall on his hands and knees so he could stand up quickly and escape but automatically falls on the ground on his back and turns 180 degrees mid air to be more prone to zombies that are coming from the back and stalls for some time in a life or death situation by lying there for a momen waiting to be done with daydreaming probably, and that's not it!
Recently bumping into zombies got "reworked and rebalanced" so that you can't move left nor right when you bump into a singe zombie, but have to engage into a "ouch I bumped shoulders with a zombie" animation while moving at a running speed straight fowards into some other zombies who are gonna make you fall wheater you want it or not and then when you start standing up you're gonna stay in a weird stalling position for 1-2 seconds and maybe get a scratch on the leg that almost incapacitate you with -80% movement speed, ofcourse if you didn't get stunlocked to death by 2 zombies or insta killed by 3 zombies who dragged you down.
How am I supposed to feel guilty for something that game forcefully did to me and I could just watch, let alone learn from this, well I did  learn that one or more of the devs is/are a sadist, RNG is not predictable and good luck becasue 40% or more of PZ gameplay is based on it in B41.

I'll admit b39-40 were a bit too much on the players side, but from that period when players could slide 360 degrees around and now no longer can, they've kept that mehanic for zombies and more. In general when you close your eyes and think about it you can see how much the game has changed from those builds to 41 and not in a good way, right now it's basically like you're controlling a bot 50% - 50% you do the manual work like walking, looting driving, drinking etc. to him doing everythign to kill himself.

Here I am at the end writing this kinda accidentally exacly 2 years and 1 day after PZ B41 IWBUMS dopped for public trial, the point is PZ builds before and after 41 are two different games, before you had the freedom of not forcefully dying and when you did die it wasn't so hard to realize that it was your mistake and not those 30 naked public bathroom zombies fault who stunlocked you to death. Congratulations, you're at the end, sorry for having to put up with this block of letters, but making an opinio based off 2.800 hours of PZ playtime worth of over 3 builds of infermation on how it's making the game less appealing is not as easy as it may sound. I'd like to hear your opinion on this dear reader, but if you're a new player who only played b41 you should maybe keep that opinion to yourself please.

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i was trying. key word trying to play with zombies with poor sight and smell. sneaking being slow would keep me from harm right?

 

no they would hear me anyway see me didn't matter what i did i had memory set to low too. they still tracked me half way across east jesus then. and for what?

well i ran into two zombies and i could no longer move and died which is telling me a human can not fight off a shamble rotten meat sack that would have movement issues

 

and that is the worse thing about build 41 to me is the fact i could fight off 1000 zombies and die because two touched me and my player just accepts death

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Hi, it's me again.:mrgreen::ugeek:

30 zombies behind a door will be heard, even from outside building. Use the sound and you'll know it's more than 1 zombie behind that door. Find another opening or let them open the door themselves. You don't have to give them a hug.
Cheesing zombies at fence can be very effective, but it comes at a risk. 100% scratch/bite protection boots is easy to come by, so even if you screw up you're pretty safe. Just don't use this cheese if there are zombies behind you. 
You're never forced to be grabbed or dragged by zombies, you can outrun them very easily. no wait you can literally outwalk them:!:

Zombies are too weak, the player is too overpowered, nothing can kill after you learn the game mechanics. If you don't want to learn new things, the option to play b40 is still available

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7 hours ago, fleshy man creature said:

i was trying. key word trying to play with zombies with poor sight and smell. sneaking being slow would keep me from harm right?

 

no they would hear me anyway see me didn't matter what i did i had memory set to low too. they still tracked me half way across east jesus then. and for what?

well i ran into two zombies and i could no longer move and died which is telling me a human can not fight off a shamble rotten meat sack that would have movement issues

 

and that is the worse thing about build 41 to me is the fact i could fight off 1000 zombies and die because two touched me and my player just accepts death

Their sight has been broken since b41.51 if i remember correctly taking that trait inconspiciuous lowered your chances of being spotted (not anymore), now there are even some zombies out of the screen who can see you even when you're fully zoomed out, but you can't see them, this ruined the immersion and broke the whole sprinetrs mode, they could see you through the thickest fog at night time while having blindfolds on their eyes and you were sneaking, not cool.

"and that is the worse thing about build 41 to me is the fact i could fight off 1000 zombies and die because two touched me and my player just accepts death"
Ohhh god I'm geting goosebums, how cheap of a method this is to kill a player, he literally does accept death, just freezes there and lets them take chunks out of him.

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6 hours ago, HetCigarr said:

Hi, it's me again.:mrgreen::ugeek:

30 zombies behind a door will be heard, even from outside building. Use the sound and you'll know it's more than 1 zombie behind that door. Find another opening or let them open the door themselves. You don't have to give them a hug.
Cheesing zombies at fence can be very effective, but it comes at a risk. 100% scratch/bite protection boots is easy to come by, so even if you screw up you're pretty safe. Just don't use this cheese if there are zombies behind you. 
You're never forced to be grabbed or dragged by zombies, you can outrun them very easily. no wait you can literally outwalk them:!:

Zombies are too weak, the player is too overpowered, nothing can kill after you learn the game mechanics. If you don't want to learn new things, the option to play b40 is still available

Well I thought 3rd time's the charm but no you still don't get my point.

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It's more difficult now,  especially in apocalypse,  but personally I like it a lot.     Getting knocked over is surprising but it hasn't killed me quite yet.    My tips:

 

Always take the hearing perk.      Ive even dropped tough skin to pay for it.       

I clear houses with the shotgun out.    Push loners down and stomp or knife.   Shoot and leave if 2-3 corner you.     Getting cute with melee is where you'lll die. 

Hunter is great.    Sneak, knife, gun.     I sneak  or sneak run all over the place and it levels fast.

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I mean all this "RNG forcing you to die" just doesn't exist. Wether you screw up or not isn't based on RNG, it's all in your control wether you bump a zombie/get grabbed or not.
However, when you do screw up THATS when the diced are rolled, and RNG will decide wether or not you will be forgiven for your mistake.

It's like you're burning yourself by laying your hand on a hot stoveplate and saying "omg stoveplate why did you do this to me, that's so unfair I did nothing wrong!!!"

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48 minutes ago, HetCigarr said:

I mean all this "RNG forcing you to die" just doesn't exist. Wether you screw up or not isn't based on RNG, it's all in your control wether you bump a zombie/get grabbed or not.
However, when you do screw up THATS when the diced are rolled, and RNG will decide wether or not you will be forgiven for your mistake.

It's like you're burning yourself by laying your hand on a hot stoveplate and saying "omg stoveplate why did you do this to me, that's so unfair I did nothing wrong!!!"

nope

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5 minutes ago, gromit said:

I thought the running in a different direction to what you're pressing when near hordes was a bug. I really hope this isn't by design.

You can't even turn left or right now, that crappy ouch animation has to end for you to be able to stop or even turn in any direction. It's worse then a bug and if it is by design then I'm not gonna be playing this game for much longer unless it changes.

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37 minutes ago, gromit said:

That one is too long and has a tendency to chain too. I hasn't got me killed yet, but I did have my character wile-e-coyote into a low fence and flop over it onto his face.

Yeah and it's not something that I would call "balanced". I presume that it was a small-medium hord so you survived, but once 3 zombies chain you down into a big group you'll be holding your head in disbeliefe, happend to me more the you can imagine, six months later is more like six nopes later.

Edited by The Nine Tailed Fox

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12 hours ago, The Nine Tailed Fox said:

Their sight has been broken since b41.51 if i remember correctly taking that trait inconspiciuous lowered your chances of being spotted (not anymore), now there are even some zombies out of the screen who can see you even when you're fully zoomed out, but you can't see them, this ruined the immersion and broke the whole sprinetrs mode, they could see you through the thickest fog at night time while having blindfolds on their eyes and you were sneaking, not cool.

"and that is the worse thing about build 41 to me is the fact i could fight off 1000 zombies and die because two touched me and my player just accepts death"
Ohhh god I'm geting goosebums, how cheap of a method this is to kill a player, he literally does accept death, just freezes there and lets them take chunks out of him.

i got a question. how does zombie A.I work. i just died while trying to hide in the woods. i have there memeory set to low but they just kept coming and coming and i couldnt break off or anything it's like they know were i am at all times and i can not hide from them at all

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On 10/17/2021 at 2:47 PM, The Nine Tailed Fox said:

Their sight has been broken since b41.51 if i remember correctly taking that trait inconspiciuous lowered your chances of being spotted (not anymore), now there are even some zombies out of the screen who can see you even when you're fully zoomed out, but you can't see them, this ruined the immersion and broke the whole sprinetrs mode, they could see you through the thickest fog at night time while having blindfolds on their eyes and you were sneaking, not cool.

"and that is the worse thing about build 41 to me is the fact i could fight off 1000 zombies and die because two touched me and my player just accepts death"
Ohhh god I'm geting goosebums, how cheap of a method this is to kill a player, he literally does accept death, just freezes there and lets them take chunks out of him.

yep, a good one thirds of the traits are broken right now. one good example you can try for yourself is speed demon, it actually makes vehicles less powerful.

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While I don't agree with the rest, I think that the traits need a revamp/rework, especially the fitness ones.

Most of the people take overweright and such because they are relatively easy to get rid of, ending up having free points.

That, along with the floating building (which really should be addressed), is the only gripe I have for build 41, because, otherwise, it's really exceptional.

You can always play the older versions ;D

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I want to offer a counter perspective to what OP said. I think there's plenty to enjoy about the new build. I've gotten the majority of my Zomboid hours in it, and before it dropped I can't say I found myself particularly enthralled by the game. The addition of new visible clothing, more weapons, and the revamping of the combat system were all good choices to make the game feel more immersive and like a sandbox-style simulation of what a survivor's experience would be in a zombie apocalypse. The update to zombie appearance and animations are also welcome changes. However, I DO also have some criticisms of combat for the current beta branch.

 

Criticisms

  • I wish that swinging heavier weapons (especially blunt weapons), would still have a chance to knock zombies back and over as they did in the older build. This would allow more crowd control with blunt weapons and maybe make fighting small groups of zombies more dynamic than constantly strafing backwards with the left mouse button held down.
  • I still don't like the current implementation of the zombie fence attack. The stun lasts too long for my liking and the distance it pushes even a high strength character back is comical.
  • Firearms seem far too useless now at low levels considering the noise many of them make. The skill requirements don't feel like they quite line up to me either. It should be possible for even a beginner to line up a shot with a scoped long rifle. I could understand pistols being difficult. The shotgun is mostly fine where it is.
  • I'm fine with the character tripping and falling if they try to run past too many zombies. What DOES bother me is that zombies never stumble and fall themselves when your character pushes past them. They should have a chance to fall over when your character shoulders them aside at a jog, and probably be almost guaranteed to fall over if a sprinting character shoulders into them.
  • I do think that scratches cause way too much slowdown to both fighting capability and movement for my liking. A bleeding scratch isn't fun sure, but I don't think it should reduce the character to walking at a limp or swinging weapons at what feels like a 25-50% reduction in speed. A laceration is much more reasonable for causing this sort of degradation in performance.
  • Please stop nerfing small blade weapons so much. Stop, he's already dead... :(
  • Some weapon classes still could use more variety: Long Blades (Only has machete and katana)
  • For how expensive the trait is, I wish Thick Skinned still reduced infection chance.
  • Beyond trapping animals, the player should be able to use the trapping skill to make traps designed to maim or stop zombies (or maybe even other players...)
  • There really should be more zombie states than the following: moving and fully functional, crawling on the ground, dead. Blunt weapons fracturing bones, sharp weapons dismembering limbs, and guns crippling zombies are all things I would like to see. The combat loop that is there is fairly solid, but it needs more variety.
  • I don't think the decision to have zombies break sirens on cars was particularly fair to the player. I hope it will eventually be replaced with another mechanic, such as the zombies eventually losing interest in the siren and wandering off after an hour or so. That way it can still be used to clear an area temporarily, but maybe not for several hours.

The above criticisms aside, the build is still a work in progress and I'm sure some or all of the issues I pointed out above will eventually be addressed. The devs have already said that the firearms system will get a revamp in the next build that will focus on hunting. I can also offer plenty of praise to the new build for features that I think have benefited the game.

 

Praise

  • Jogging, sprinting, jumping over tall fences, and being able to crouch are great additions to allow for more movement options.
  • Despite my previous criticism, I do appreciate that there is a LOT more weapon variety compared to the previous build. There are far more melee weapons and firearms to choose from.
  • Much more character customization. More hairstyles, visible clothes, visible backpacks, idle movements, cosmetics.
  • Crawlers have a proper attack animation now and are a lot less dangerous overall.
  • More specialized loot tables for locations, with loot that generally makes sense for the place you are looting.
  • Tailoring system and clothing armor system that allows you to almost fully immunize yourself to at least a few zombie attacks.
  • The new default combat experience is a lot more grounded without multihit. It makes picking fights and using the environment to split larger groups much more important.
  • Zombies will now potentially cripple themselves and turn into crawlers if jumping down from building windows.
  • 3D models for all the items in the game makes decorating a base much more visually appealing and allows for more interesting building stories.
  • Sound Update while still a work in progress, does a lot for the ambience of the game. Noise when walking over wet surfaces and snow, hearing the stove bubble when you cook soup, more zombie noises, environmental noises, etc.
  • Car trailers for hauling more loot, or just for style.
  • More zed stories in general: Abandoned camping spots in the wilderness, police barricades, etc.
  • Character insulation and temperature play a more important but not completely ridiculous role. Character will sweat more and may overheat if ridiculously bundled up in the summer, but can get away with several layers of clothing in the winter.

The above list is just a few things I could think of, and I'm sure it will only get longer over time. I'm sure the foraging update, release of Louisville, and map update to make roads have curved turns are all things that will improve the game as well. Anyways, end of long post.

 

TLDR: There's definitely still things that could be improved in the new beta branch, but I think that it is adding plenty that is improving the overall experience of the game as well.

Edited by Optimism
fixed spelling

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On 10/27/2021 at 1:17 PM, hooap said:

I prefer the b41 to b40 but they should really tone down the stunlocks a bit. Two zombies sometimes can stunlock you to death. And the stun from the fence lunge attack is kinda over the top.

Exacly, that makes 60% of the current problem with build 41, it's truly an amazing build, but these stunlocks are ridiculous and sometimes when a weapon glithches right through the zombie and his hitbox while he's lunging over the fence he can fck up your run in the blink of an eye, and you'll be asking yourself what just happend while holding your head in disbelief.

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On 10/21/2021 at 9:34 PM, Optimism said:

I still don't like the current implementation of the zombie fence attack. The stun lasts too long for my liking and the distance it pushes even a high strength character back is comical.

On 10/21/2021 at 9:34 PM, Optimism said:

Please stop nerfing small blade weapons so much. Stop, he's already dead... :(

 

Yeah, agreed.

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:17 AM, hooap said:

I prefer the b41 to b40 but they should really tone down the stunlocks a bit. Two zombies sometimes can stunlock you to death. And the stun from the fence lunge attack is kinda over the top.

 

Yep. I had a similar issue and I made an entire thread about it, to boot.

 

 

I love Zomboid, and I've supported it since its debut, but the way these specific issues have been handled leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Like I said in the thread above; this is a small, but tremendously impactful element that really sours the experience. It doesn't feel like you died because of negligence or because you were ill-prepared. It just feels like the game had a brain-fart and couldn't handle its animations properly. There's no choice or input, you can't choose to turn tail and run at the risk of injury, or even death. You're just dead... -And not even properly dead, just ping-ponging two zombies for an entire minute before you eventually spontaneously collapse.

 

—But, apparently that's a feature, according to EnigmaGrey.

 

So that's fun.

Edited by Fuzzy Wolfy

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3 hours ago, Fuzzy Wolfy said:

 

 

Yep. I had a similar issue and I made an entire thread about it, to boot.

 

 

I love Zomboid, and I've supported it since its debut, but the way these specific issues have been handled leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Like I said in the thread above; this is a small, but tremendously impactful element that really sours the experience. It doesn't feel like you died because of negligence or because you were ill-prepared. It just feels like the game had a brain-fart and couldn't handle its animations properly. There's no choice or input, you can't choose to turn tail and run at the risk of injury, or even death. You're just dead... -And not even properly dead, just ping-ponging two zombies for an entire minute before you eventually spontaneously collapse.

 

—But, apparently that's a feature, according to EnigmaGrey.

 

So that's fun.


Yes: it is by design that if you do something rather dumb, like take on multiple zombies at once and put yourself in a position to get team-tagged by them, you’ll die.

 

Otherwise I already addressed the specific issue (in your old thread) of ping-ponging back and forth a few times in that process. It is ugly and a bit silly and I’d like it fixed, but that fix is just killing you faster.

 

We are simply not going back to the pre-animation days of fixed, telekinetic sprites basically operating on area of effect to arbitrarily slow the player. We will of course refine anims as we go in to the future and as the engine becomes more feature rich, but I think the answer to an awful lot of the gripes here is unlearning multiple years of habit rather than blaming the game for it. Things change and sometimes we, as humans, really don’t like that and actively fight it by imagining  whatever changed was better in the past, when it really wasn’t.

 

 

For everyone else, since some of you seem to think everyone is complaining about the same thing when they describe it as stunlock: pull down requires three zombies hitting you simultaneously to even function. Turn it off in sandbox if it really is that much a bother and go your merry way. Play survivor if you want something  more like build 40 rather than subject yourself to apocalypse.

 

 

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