Item Weight Rebalancing Mod

[Connall]

So yeah as the title says, the aim of this project is to rebalance some of the items weights so they make a bit more sense. While I am sort of announcing this mod and it is being worked on I have encountered a conundrum that was raised on IRC. So now I'm here to ask you guys before I finish my final number sweeps (unless RJ updates the weights and make this completely irrelevant.) 

 

Right now I got a giant spreadsheet with every single in game item with it's current weight and new weight. So far what I have been doing is going off true weight (is item X heavier than item Y and if so make item X > Y.) but of course like most of my endeavours harakka brought up the fact that item weight is not only based on it's weight but it's encumberance (how weildly it is how many fits in your bag etc. While for the most part true weight (what I mean by true weight is, would realistically one item be heavier than the other, then adjust to make sense) system can handle this idea alright, there are certain items that throw it into chaos. Axes, Golf Clubs, building materials such as logs and planks would take up a heck of alot of inventory space because realistically you would only be able to fit a few planks (if that) into a bag.

 

So the question becomes would people accept a harsh number rebalance where stuff like planks, logs make you overencumbered quickly and you wouldn't really be able to take all that much with you. Same with bats and golf clubs. For me this question revolves mainly around building supplies and weapons. Or should I continue to do what I'm doing making the weight realistic (in a way)

 

Or should I just make sure that each weight of the item makes sense when compared to that of another item, like a needle lighter than cheese etc. I could have course just make up numbers for both versions which is certainly a possibility. However I want to get a general gauge from people on which is the preferred system, before starting it. Or just mix it all together.

 

I'll update this thread in the morning, maybe add a Q&A section or something but for now. Sleep.

 

P.S Just a quick note, either method the items would be balanced so it wouldn't be like you could carry 5 axes easily or something.

 

 

 

[harakka]

This is a cool project and something I've been thinking of occasionally. Cool to see it happen, thanks for picking it up!

 

I don't see there being a "realistic" or "right" way to do this. So instead balance in a manner where most everyday items make sense in relation to one another, and exaggerate the ends of the scale, that is, light&tiny, and heavy&big, enough that it becomes reflected in gameplay. It may make some specific gameplay scenarios harder, such as building massive forts, but hey, no-one said living in the post-apocalyptia was easy!

 

To illustrate the scale and the issues with trying to go for realism, you could carry a backpack full of cigarettes without much of an issue, but a backpack full of nails would be a different thing entirely, and a bag of gravel would be similarly challenging. With the current system there's no way to represent that a bagful of cigarettes would not weigh you down much but they'd still fill your bag completely, so you'll have to make compromises somewhere.

[Connall]

This is a cool project and something I've been thinking of occasionally. Cool to see it happen, thanks for picking it up!

 

I don't see there being a "realistic" or "right" way to do this. So instead balance in a manner where most everyday items make sense in relation to one another, and exaggerate the ends of the scale, that is, light&tiny, and heavy&big, enough that it becomes reflected in gameplay. It may make some specific gameplay scenarios harder, such as building massive forts, but hey, no-one said living in the post-apocalyptia was easy!

 

To illustrate the scale and the issues with trying to go for realism, you could carry a backpack full of cigarettes without much of an issue, but a backpack full of nails would be a different thing entirely, and a bag of gravel would be similarly challenging. With the current system there's no way to represent that a bagful of cigarettes would not weigh you down much but they'd still fill your bag completely, so you'll have to make compromises somewhere.

 

If the first version of the mod is screwed up I'll always just fix up the numbers as well. I'll also be revealing the spreadsheet numbers to everybody come release.

[chthonic]

Agreed with harakka. Don't go much in-depth for now. Just do so that weights make more sense (sheets, clothing, some food, etc).

Thx for starting this project. Weights overhaul has been long-needed

[dred]

I provide you a link to files i modified for my personal use. Basically my idea was to make more sense to the item weight - a needle have the same weight as wooden stick!! - although I did not think too long about the values. Most modified items have weight that is balanced(IMO), some of them have real life counterparts (in.e. baseball bat - 0,96 gram's ----> 0.96 in-game weight). I hope those files may be helpful to you

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/88mp2t07aw6a6wj/newitems.txt

http://www.mediafire.com/view/4c73alxmm6n2wol/items.txt

[Connall]

So I've balanced these numbers 3-4 times now and I'm still feeling the need to change them. I was originally gonna hold off on releasing the files since I was worried someone might try and take them and make the mod, however the community seems like a stand up group so here they are:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4nkc39dqykxfz4/Project%20Zomboid%20Item%20Weights.pdf

 

If there are any questions, or one of the items seems incorrectly balanced point it out and I'll either explain it or change it. Some form of positivity would be helpful if the numbers are looking good, a like on the post or a reply would be uber helpful since I do require some feedback on this issue. These are only a section of the items that I have been through numerous times and am comfortable with releasing there's still 100 odd items that need to be altered.

 

Off to bed now, enjoy PURE UNBRIDLED MATHEMATICS! 

[dred]

If socks = 0.02 then sheet paper an tissue should be like 0.002 - don't make volume and weight of single sheet is minimal - multiplied x220 gives us +/- book weight 0,44

[Connall]

If socks = 0.02 then sheet paper an tissue should be like 0.002 - don't make volume and weight of single sheet is minimal - multiplied x220 gives us +/- book weight 0,44

 

I think I get where you coming from but I have to disagree, since arguable a book can be any weight or size you don't necessarily needs to times the value of that sheet of paper to get the weight of a book since we don't know how many pages are in the books of PZ. I will still alter the weight but I won't take it down to something as small as 0.002. That's just a bit too small for my liking.

[chthonic]

skill books in pz have exactly 220 pages, as mentioned above

[Connall]

skill books in pz have exactly 220 pages, as mentioned above

 

Where is this info on how many pages there are in a book? 

 

Edit: I also feel on the whole, every book having the exact number of pages isn't particularly reasonable. Hence when it comes to books on the list it's a bit more scattergunned and random.

[Shivster]

 

skill books in pz have exactly 220 pages, as mentioned above

 

Where is this info on how many pages there are in a book? 

 

Edit: I also feel on the whole, every book having the exact number of pages isn't particularly reasonable. Hence when it comes to books on the list it's a bit more scattergunned and random.

 

 

They don't have the same number of pages all sub sets do but not all levels.

Beginner books have 220

Master Books have 380

 

here is a copy paste from the item.txt

 

 

item BookCarpentry1

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    220,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Carpentry for Beginners,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 0

    }

    item BookCarpentry2

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    260,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Carpentry for Intermediates,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 1

    }

 

    item BookCarpentry3

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    300,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Advanced Carpentry,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 2

    }

 

    item BookCarpentry4

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    340,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Expert Carpentry,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 3

    }

 

    item BookCarpentry5

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    380,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Master Carpentry,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 4

    }

[Connall]

 

 

skill books in pz have exactly 220 pages, as mentioned above

 

Where is this info on how many pages there are in a book? 

 

Edit: I also feel on the whole, every book having the exact number of pages isn't particularly reasonable. Hence when it comes to books on the list it's a bit more scattergunned and random.

 

 

They don't have the same number of pages all sub sets do but not all levels.

Beginner books have 220

Master Books have 380

 

here is a copy paste from the item.txt

 

 

item BookCarpentry1

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    220,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Carpentry for Beginners,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 0

    }

    item BookCarpentry2

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    260,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Carpentry for Intermediates,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 1

    }

 

    item BookCarpentry3

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    300,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Advanced Carpentry,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 2

    }

 

    item BookCarpentry4

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    340,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Expert Carpentry,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 3

    }

 

    item BookCarpentry5

    {

        NumberOfPages    =    380,

        Weight    =    0.8,

        Type    =    Literature,

        DisplayName    =    Master Carpentry,

        Icon    =    Book,

        SkillTrained = Carpentry,

        LvlSkillTrained = 4

    }

 

 

Ah! Thank you very much for that! I was unaware that the item files contained how many pages were contained in a book. Now I can do a proper re balancing of weight for the books instead of having a random weight in each skill book, then a + or - 0.5 weight for all level subsets.

 

In any case they should not all weigh. 0.8

 

Thank you again!

[Connall]

I've locked down the first set of numbers for release, I'm just waiting to finish up the last numbers then it will move into implementation stages. 

 

So fun times ahead.

[Connall]

That's all the numbers locked down and I'll be working on implementation tomorrow. The first version will be focusing on relational weight, rather than encumberance. Over the next few updates I'll then be working on balancing both weight and the idea of encumberance, I want to get this first version out as I got a list of stuff I'm doing right now regarding the wiki and implementation of bots.

 

I also have some other mod stuff planned in the future. The aim is to have this done tomorrow, if not then maybe Monday or Tuesday time.

[Shivster]

Looking good cant wait for a link

[Connall]

Looking good cant wait for a link

 

Thanks. My projected date hit the toilet after a few problems, but hopefully come new year it will all be sorted.

[Cl0nec0mmand0]

 

Looking good cant wait for a link

 

Thanks. My projected date hit the toilet after a few problems, but hopefully come new year it will all be sorted.

 

damn hope you can fix the toilet

[Connall]

Right I think I'm just going to have to just stop this mod for now. I'm currently not doing so great, so I'm just offloading some of my projects until I'm feeling a bit better. I really don't want to do this, since it feels like a failure but if I keep spending time on this I'm just going to drive myself insane.

 

If anyone wishes to continue this project here's the docs that has all the numbers, the ultimate list, is the most up to date one, the others were to be updated: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsZHI8l8yz3kdG8taDB2dUl3XzhNZ3BHZk1iZjlxSmc&usp=sharing

 

I got the files into a mod structure and was just trying to get it to work. However for whatever reasons I was unable to change the base items weight through the mod, perhaps I was doing it the wrong way. I don't know.

 

Well I'm off to a different project for the time being. Sorry again guys.

[Connall]

I lied, I got it working. Will be releasing soon. Thanks harakka!

[harakka]

I am, as always, your most humble servant.

[Cl0nec0mmand0]

I am, as always, your most humble servant.

well...