An Evil Food...

[Sheamus]

I made a previous post in this topic but just thought of something new. Humans are now a huge rarity that meeting 1 or 2 survivor a huge deal. do you really want to make something that hard to find your food source? in Fallout that was quoted for having that people were still numerous, In PZ they are rare as hell, becoming a Cannibal makes little sense because it's too hard to find people to eat.  

 

If we approach the point your way, the whole cannibalism could just as well be a negative trait,(I like the idea of a sociopath trait) for example if you can't eat human meat for a while you'd get negative moodlets (angry, on edge or something) untill you get your share of flesh, but it doesn't need to be eating human meat, it can just as well be just the desire to murder a person(not sure what you call this, if it has any names), anyways it could give whole new aspects to the game, like if you're a part of a group,how will you fulfill your needs? or you could just as well be the masked maniac in the broken down shack in the forest, the reason people would avoid going near the woods,(of course you could roleplay this, I'm just writing whats on my mind) --- anyways, if any of these will be ever implemented I can only imagine them to be added later, a looot later, there are tons of other traits I can think of wich are more likely to be owned by everyday people in Kentucky (but still, think about the masked murderer!!=D)

[Fj45]

 

I made a previous post in this topic but just thought of something new. Humans are now a huge rarity that meeting 1 or 2 survivor a huge deal. do you really want to make something that hard to find your food source? in Fallout that was quoted for having that people were still numerous, In PZ they are rare as hell, becoming a Cannibal makes little sense because it's too hard to find people to eat.  

 

If we approach the point your way, the whole cannibalism could just as well be a negative trait,(I like the idea of a sociopath trait) for example if you can't eat human meat for a while you'd get negative moodlets (angry, on edge or something) untill you get your share of flesh, but it doesn't need to be eating human meat, it can just as well be just the desire to murder a person(not sure what you call this, if it has any names), anyways it could give whole new aspects to the game, like if you're a part of a group,how will you fulfill your needs? or you could just as well be the masked maniac in the broken down shack in the forest, the reason people would avoid going near the woods,(of course you could roleplay this, I'm just writing whats on my mind) --- anyways, if any of these will be ever implemented I can only imagine them to be added later, a looot later, there are tons of other traits I can think of wich are more likely to be owned by everyday people in Kentucky (but still, think about the masked murderer!!=D)

 

 

Meh, as the others have said, too unrealistic. 

[Connall]

 

I made a previous post in this topic but just thought of something new. Humans are now a huge rarity that meeting 1 or 2 survivor a huge deal. do you really want to make something that hard to find your food source? in Fallout that was quoted for having that people were still numerous, In PZ they are rare as hell, becoming a Cannibal makes little sense because it's too hard to find people to eat.  

 

If we approach the point your way, the whole cannibalism could just as well be a negative trait,(I like the idea of a sociopath trait) for example if you can't eat human meat for a while you'd get negative moodlets (angry, on edge or something) untill you get your share of flesh, but it doesn't need to be eating human meat, it can just as well be just the desire to murder a person(not sure what you call this, if it has any names), anyways it could give whole new aspects to the game, like if you're a part of a group,how will you fulfill your needs? or you could just as well be the masked maniac in the broken down shack in the forest, the reason people would avoid going near the woods,(of course you could roleplay this, I'm just writing whats on my mind) --- anyways, if any of these will be ever implemented I can only imagine them to be added later, a looot later, there are tons of other traits I can think of wich are more likely to be owned by everyday people in Kentucky (but still, think about the masked murderer!!=D)

 

 

Okay I know this is an odd thing, but it's a gripe of mine for various reasons but...

 

 

 

(I like the idea of a sociopath trait)

 

Can we please stop inferring that Cannibalism and Sociopathy is related in someway, because they're not. Cannabilsm can also be rather ritualistic thing and isn't necessarily something that's caused by a mental illness of any kind, you could try to argue it's a form of psychosis but... I don't know. I also want to point out that sociopathy comes in many different forms and flavours and trying to boil it down to one trait (which could allow you to do Cannabilsm which is a hell of a thing) is in someways insulting.

 

If people are still debating whether this should still be a thing, then google "Kuru".

 

It's a disease related to Cannabilism that is deadly. This would make the suggestion more worthy of a Rathlord Anti-Suggestion.

[Guest]

Don't be a silly fuddy duddy connall, cannabilism is not necessarily a ritualistic thing.

It's widely accepted in some tribes where then it might be a ritualistic thing but again not necessarily.

[Fj45]

Pedantics aside, cannibalism just isn't very realistic.

[harakka]

If people are still debating whether this should still be a thing, then google "Kuru".

 

[spoilers]It's a disease related to Cannabilism that is deadly. This would make the suggestion more worthy of a Rathlord Anti-Suggestion.

 

Kuru isn't specifically related to cannibalism, prion diseases can (and do) spontaneously emerge. They also spread via other means than cannibalism. It just happens to spread very effectively if disease-carrying person's brains are eaten, as was the case with the tribe the disease was endemic to, since in prion diseases the infectious matter is concentrated in nervous tissues.

 

Also keep in mind prion diseases typically have very long incubation times and even after symptoms manifest, it takes a fairly long time for the infected to die.

[Connall]

Don't be a silly fuddy duddy connall, cannabilism is not necessarily a ritualistic thing.

It's widely accepted in some tribes where then it might be a ritualistic thing but again not necessarily.

 

Bah, words failing me again. I didn't mean for it to come off as if Cannabilsm is mainly ritualistic, I'm just trying to point out there are other beliefs around why Cannabilism is done. And can be attributed to many things. Miscommunication on my part.

 

 

 

If people are still debating whether this should still be a thing, then google "Kuru".

 

[spoilers]It's a disease related to Cannabilism that is deadly. This would make the suggestion more worthy of a Rathlord Anti-Suggestion.

 

Kuru isn't specifically related to cannibalism, prion diseases can (and do) spontaneously emerge. They also spread via other means than cannibalism. It just happens to spread very effectively if disease-carrying person's brains are eaten, as was the case with the tribe the disease was endemic to, since in prion diseases the infectious matter is concentrated in nervous tissues.

 

Also keep in mind prion diseases typically have very long incubation times and even after symptoms manifest, it takes a fairly long time for the infected to die.

 

 

Alright *shrug*. I keep seeing things that suggests Cannablism can still harm you but are often vague on what is causing the problem. Kuru was the thing that kept popping up when I was reading into it.

 

Edit: My posts are pretty crap today, think I'm gonna go lie down and sleep or something.

[Rathlord]

Kuru is also spread in cultures that eat brains (there are plenty) of other mammals. I consider myself a fairly brave eater, and I've tried all kinds of different foods, but brains is one I won't touch simply because the possible diseases are an order of magnitude worse than most things you get from normal food.

 

As far as the sociopath thing, I think some people latched onto that because of what I said originally- that in a modern society (one that doesn't embrace ritual cannibalism) it would likely take a sociopath to willingly partake in cannibalism. Not at all trying to imply that all sociopaths are cannibals, or even that sociopathy is tied to cannibalism.

 

 

it can just as well be just the desire to murder a person(not sure what you call this, if it has any names)

 

Typically that would be a psychopath, a form of psychosis involving the desire to cause violence and pain. Of course, that's not the only mental disorder that can lead to murderous tendencies, but it's the most common and the most publicly up-played.

[American Steel]

I "personally" see cannibalism as an acceptable option in an end of the world type scenario, or at least a very broken world... at least from an intellectual perspective.  What society may find relevant or irrelevant now is moot, society does not exist.  We have either been marooned or with a very limited population (when/if NPCs and/or MMO comes into play).  As the game stands now, we are alone.

 

There have been multiple studies about what happens to people who are left alone for long periods of time.  They break and go crazy on one or more fronts.  Why?  We are social creature.  That is why the zombie plague is so bad, most people have a hard time believing a friend or loved one would harm them.... let alone having to put a bullet in their brain or drop a axe into their skull.  It it were dogs, or cow, or birds we could do something and something quick.  You kill them all and sort is out later.  However, we just cant go killing people because society says it is wrong.  When people have a mental break, their moral compass does not point true anymore.  It may point in a new direction, spin about or cease all together.  Then you have people who did not have an accurate moral compass to begin with (sociopaths) and throw them into this scenario.

 

People in America are starving everyday (believe it or not) and food is all around them.  Turn the world upside down and arm them with nothing... see what happens.  FEMA dictates we be able to survive for three days on our own before the government will sweep in and save you (ha ha!).  We have seen natural disasters recently and the break down of social order that is usually lasts little more than three meals.  Looting, rape and murder fall in faster than you can say New Orleans!  Just because there is wildlife, does not mean people know how to capture it.  Just because there are bugs or berries, does not mean we know which ones we can or cannot eat.  Telling someone who has no more knowledge about outdoor survival than watching some TV show about it is FAR from reality.  I was in the Army, I have had SERE training.  My wife grew up hunting and fishing.  However our neighbors are college educated city folk who barely know how to start a fire outside, let alone tell them what they could or could not eat.

 

If one of these types managed to survive by hiding out and looting the corpse that was human civilization, lets not assume they would be all rosy and happy to see someone.  You cant break a twig and put it back together with nothing but good intentions.  If you took a prepper who KNEW the world was coming to an end and limited on supplies, they may have decided long ago what to do with someone who Gets on their Lawn.

 

Longpig might not be acceptable to the fabric of society BUT at character creation, your game persona may have already come to grips with this possibility deep down.  They may not be an active cannibal and they may never have to do it.  However, if the chips were down... they may see this as the only option left.  Like the Donner Party, famine begets feast.

 

All this said, I did take the perk on a character in the Fallout series (a female named Jessie).  As a RP perspective, I can see consuming those I kill in combat to be ritualistic and filling

[Connall]

I "personally" see cannibalism as an acceptable option in an end of the world type scenario, or at least a very broken world... at least from an intellectual perspective.  What society may find relevant or irrelevant now is moot, society does not exist.  We have either been marooned or with a very limited population (when/if NPCs and/or MMO comes into play).  As the game stands now, we are alone.

 

There have been multiple studies about what happens to people who are left alone for long periods of time.  They break and go crazy on one or more fronts.  Why?  We are social creature.  That is why the zombie plague is so bad, most people have a hard time believing a friend or loved one would harm them.... let alone having to put a bullet in their brain or drop a axe into their skull.  It it were dogs, or cow, or birds we could do something and something quick.  You kill them all and sort is out later.  However, we just cant go killing people because society says it is wrong.  When people have a mental break, their moral compass does not point true anymore.  It may point in a new direction, spin about or cease all together.  Then you have people who did not have an accurate moral compass to begin with (sociopaths) and throw them into this scenario.

 

People in America are starving everyday (believe it or not) and food is all around them.  Turn the world upside down and arm them with nothing... see what happens.  FEMA dictates we be able to survive for three days on our own before the government will sweep in and save you (ha ha!).  We have seen natural disasters recently and the break down of social order that is usually lasts little more than three meals.  Looting, rape and murder fall in faster than you can say New Orleans!  Just because there is wildlife, does not mean people know how to capture it.  Just because there are bugs or berries, does not mean we know which ones we can or cannot eat.  Telling someone who has no more knowledge about outdoor survival than watching some TV show about it is FAR from reality.  I was in the Army, I have had SERE training.  My wife grew up hunting and fishing.  However our neighbors are college educated city folk who barely know how to start a fire outside, let alone tell them what they could or could not eat.

 

If one of these types managed to survive by hiding out and looting the corpse that was human civilization, lets not assume they would be all rosy and happy to see someone.  You cant break a twig and put it back together with nothing but good intentions.  If you took a prepper who KNEW the world was coming to an end and limited on supplies, they may have decided long ago what to do with someone who Gets on their Lawn.

 

Longpig might not be acceptable to the fabric of society BUT at character creation, your game persona may have already come to grips with this possibility deep down.  They may not be an active cannibal and they may never have to do it.  However, if the chips were down... they may see this as the only option left.  Like the Donner Party, famine begets feast.

 

All this said, I did take the perk on a character in the Fallout series (a female named Jessie).  As a RP perspective, I can see consuming those I kill in combat to be ritualistic and filling

 

The problem is though, the debate isn't necessarily that you're character wouldn't break or something. Of course they would suffer some sort of phychological breakdown. The problem is there's quite the leap from a breakdown to Cannabilsm. It's a very taboo subject that isn't that prelevant in the world we live in. While there have been cases of Cannabilsm in horrific events, this is usually when there is no such other means to procure food. e.g North Korea in... 1969? I think. I can't remember the exact year there were reports of Cannabilsm.

 

The thing is though, that while food would run low... eventually. In the initial time you have houses and stores still stocked with supplies, and as time goes on the player should eventually migrate to farming. The player wouldn't really experiences the complete loss of food that would create outbreak of Cannabilsm and even then, it would take a LONG time for someone to resort to Cannabilsm because of how Taboo it is.

 

The idea that social chaos would throw those already starving into Cannabilsm doesn't make sense, they can walk into any store and get food now without the worry of cash.

[Guest]

Society finding it acceptable or not, I'd find it hard to cut up a human being, scavenge parts, and even eat

Obviously not necessarily in that order, yum.

[Rathlord]

Society finding it acceptable or not, I'd find it hard to cut up a human being, scavenge parts, and even eat

Obviously not necessarily in that order, yum.

 

That's the gist of it. There are certain things that transcend "morality." Cannibalism isn't just an immoral and taboo act- it's one that goes against our genetic memory. Humans are programmed not to eat other humans, just like we're programmed to be social creatures. It goes not only against our moral fiber, but also against our very nature.

 

American Steel you claim people would be forced to cannibalism out of hunger, but I'd throw that into serious question. Especially in Muldraugh, KY, a veritable bounty of wildlife. Even if they couldn't hunt, foraging is simple. Most (if not all) people would chose eating things like bugs or berries (regardless of whether they know if they're safe to eat; most city folk don't even realize there are bugs that are poisonous to eat) over eating a dead guy for a simple reason; one act is a simple act of self preservation, and one is a bastardization of nature and goes against basic, inherent morality. This doesn't even take into account the absolute revulsion people feel about cutting up, cooking, and eating a human. Even if you could convince yourself somehow that it's something you're willing to do, thinking it and doing it are very different.

[Connall]

This just seems to be a topic that's going round and round in circles now.

[RorekSR]

This just seems to be a topic that's going round and round in circles now.

There's almost nothing else that could be said to further discussion.

Is it being put into the vanilla game? No.

Beyond that everything is basically "People would resort to cannibalism because of reasons" and "People wouldn't because of other reasons." The fact is, it won't be in the vanilla game judging from memory and the lack of dev commentary stating otherwise. When NPCs are one again added, surely there will be a mod for it and those that wish to eat humans in their game can do so with impunity.

Really... I think there's just nothing left to discuss here. 

[American Steel]

 

Society finding it acceptable or not, I'd find it hard to cut up a human being, scavenge parts, and even eat

Obviously not necessarily in that order, yum.

 

That's the gist of it. There are certain things that transcend "morality." Cannibalism isn't just an immoral and taboo act- it's one that goes against our genetic memory. Humans are programmed not to eat other humans, just like we're programmed to be social creatures. It goes not only against our moral fiber, but also against our very nature.

 

American Steel you claim people would be forced to cannibalism out of hunger, but I'd throw that into serious question. Especially in Muldraugh, KY, a veritable bounty of wildlife. Even if they couldn't hunt, foraging is simple. Most (if not all) people would chose eating things like bugs or berries (regardless of whether they know if they're safe to eat; most city folk don't even realize there are bugs that are poisonous to eat) over eating a dead guy for a simple reason; one act is a simple act of self preservation, and one is a bastardization of nature and goes against basic, inherent morality. This doesn't even take into account the absolute revulsion people feel about cutting up, cooking, and eating a human. Even if you could convince yourself somehow that it's something you're willing to do, thinking it and doing it are very different.

 

 

You do realize when the society fails, most morals go right out the window.  I have seen it in multiple lands, across the globe as a Military Policeman and a local cop.  Bosnia, Haiti, Kuwait, Panama... people can do some amazingly brutal things with very little additional help.  I think brutality runs in our veins way stronger than compassion... you have to cultivate a compassionate soul, while a brutal animal mentality is just not loving a child so they become a sociopath.  When the chips are down, inherent morality is thin... very thin.  We can talk about the basic morality of the human condition typing on a computer, but I have seen a boat with 40 Haitians only have 8 survivors, and the survivors ate the dead (mothers and children were left alive).  I have seen the frozen, cut up corpses in the brutal Bosnia winter of '95 when the UN was no where to be found and we were told to "Keep the peace" while children starved... so parents carved up their dead neighbors.  This is just what I have personally seen.

 

Now all of these conditions were based on a very simple grain of truth, the people had no where else to go to get food.  If you tell me I can live and starve or go out into a zombie infested city and have a real chance at death, most would starve.  Go into the woodline and try to find something to eat, while a lot of monsters are prowling the same woods looking to make a meal of you.  Most would cower in fear and never come out of their homes than even try to fight.  Just like people cower in fear when an enemy regime goes door to door and kills people who they "think" oppose them.  They sit in their homes and pray the Angel of Death passes them by.  Then take those scared, starving people and drop a body of meat.  Not all of them will carve them up for dinner, but more would than you think.  Especially if they think they will be keeping their family alive a little longer by doing it.

 

I have seen people forced to cannibalism two times in my short military career and I know of three cases "out of the media eye" in the SE US of cannibalism in the past few years.  I think it is a lot more prevalent in extreme survival situation and in psychopaths than most would like to admit.

 

Transcending Morality, that sounds like a word used in a large book sitting in a fancy home.  Not one found in what I have seen in the real world.  Also, the only thing I have seen coded in our very nature is to survive.  Sometimes that survival is keeping your head down, sometimes it is cowering in your home, sometimes it is kicking the door down of your enemy and today, it is punching some clock in an 8-5 job.

 

That said, I care not if the devs implement a cannibal system or not.  I think the game is great without it.  I don't need to sugar coat the real world, I have looked it in the eyes and growled back.

[Rathlord]

I'll just have to agree to disagree with you. I feel you completely disregarded what I was actually saying in favor of an interpretation that you could twist into something easily disproven. Nor do your stories in any way, shape, or form disprove what I was actually saying. With all due respect, that post was just a big appeal to emotion with very little substance to add to this discussion. Cheers.

 

Edit: And the fact of the matter is, most people are going to read that and think you've proved your point, so well played.

[Connall]

I'll just have to agree to disagree with you. I feel you completely disregarded what I was actually saying in favor of an interpretation that you could twist into something easily disproven. Nor do your stories in any way, shape, or form disprove what I was actually saying. With all due respect, that post was just a big appeal to emotion with very little substance to add to this discussion. Cheers.

 

Edit: And the fact of the matter is, most people are going to read that and think you've proved your point, so well played.

 

Hasn't swayed me 

 

 

 

 

 

Society finding it acceptable or not, I'd find it hard to cut up a human being, scavenge parts, and even eat

Obviously not necessarily in that order, yum.

 

That's the gist of it. There are certain things that transcend "morality." Cannibalism isn't just an immoral and taboo act- it's one that goes against our genetic memory. Humans are programmed not to eat other humans, just like we're programmed to be social creatures. It goes not only against our moral fiber, but also against our very nature.

 

American Steel you claim people would be forced to cannibalism out of hunger, but I'd throw that into serious question. Especially in Muldraugh, KY, a veritable bounty of wildlife. Even if they couldn't hunt, foraging is simple. Most (if not all) people would chose eating things like bugs or berries (regardless of whether they know if they're safe to eat; most city folk don't even realize there are bugs that are poisonous to eat) over eating a dead guy for a simple reason; one act is a simple act of self preservation, and one is a bastardization of nature and goes against basic, inherent morality. This doesn't even take into account the absolute revulsion people feel about cutting up, cooking, and eating a human. Even if you could convince yourself somehow that it's something you're willing to do, thinking it and doing it are very different.

 

 

You do realize when the society fails, most morals go right out the window.  I have seen it in multiple lands, across the globe as a Military Policeman and a local cop.  Bosnia, Haiti, Kuwait, Panama... people can do some amazingly brutal things with very little additional help.  I think brutality runs in our veins way stronger than compassion... you have to cultivate a compassionate soul, while a brutal animal mentality is just not loving a child so they become a sociopath.  When the chips are down, inherent morality is thin... very thin.  We can talk about the basic morality of the human condition typing on a computer, but I have seen a boat with 40 Haitians only have 8 survivors, and the survivors ate the dead (mothers and children were left alive).  I have seen the frozen, cut up corpses in the brutal Bosnia winter of '95 when the UN was no where to be found and we were told to "Keep the peace" while children starved... so parents carved up their dead neighbors.  This is just what I have personally seen.

 

Now all of these conditions were based on a very simple grain of truth, the people had no where else to go to get food.  If you tell me I can live and starve or go out into a zombie infested city and have a real chance at death, most would starve.  Go into the woodline and try to find something to eat, while a lot of monsters are prowling the same woods looking to make a meal of you.  Most would cower in fear and never come out of their homes than even try to fight.  Just like people cower in fear when an enemy regime goes door to door and kills people who they "think" oppose them.  They sit in their homes and pray the Angel of Death passes them by.  Then take those scared, starving people and drop a body of meat.  Not all of them will carve them up for dinner, but more would than you think.  Especially if they think they will be keeping their family alive a little longer by doing it.

 

I have seen people forced to cannibalism two times in my short military career and I know of three cases "out of the media eye" in the SE US of cannibalism in the past few years.  I think it is a lot more prevalent in extreme survival situation and in psychopaths than most would like to admit.

 

Transcending Morality, that sounds like a word used in a large book sitting in a fancy home.  Not one found in what I have seen in the real world.  Also, the only thing I have seen coded in our very nature is to survive.  Sometimes that survival is keeping your head down, sometimes it is cowering in your home, sometimes it is kicking the door down of your enemy and today, it is punching some clock in an 8-5 job.

 

That said, I care not if the devs implement a cannibal system or not.  I think the game is great without it.  I don't need to sugar coat the real world, I have looked it in the eyes and growled back.

 

 

Again. I don't believe that the argument is regarding whether people would commit horrible acts or not. Yes, they would. Rape, Murder etc is very prevalent in the world today and I doubt the apocalypse would drive it away. What I am saying though that Cannibalism is rare even in this brutal society. Articles I've seen point to there being round about 12 cases of Cannibalism since 2010, where as something like Rape is a rather common thing, Over 84,000 in the US in 2010 alone. Also I mean this with all due respect, but anecdotal evidence doesn't help to support an argument.

 

Even if true, 2 times. In how long? We're talking about the US as well, so if you were to narrow down the 12 cases to the US, it's just not a common thing. That's what the argument is in the end when it comes to this. It's not whether Cannibalism happens or exist, because it does. It's not about whether humans are capable of deplorable acts, because they are. The arguement is how many people would actually be willing to result to Cannibalism even when alternatives exist and for alot of people the thought of eating human meat is beyond thought.

[PhantomWarlock]

Maybe.....It's NOT an infection. The onbringers of this apocalypse, may just have, a mental illness. It could be like rabbis, but that the virus dies, when the carrier dies.

[Rathlord]

Maybe.....It's NOT an infection. The onbringers of this apocalypse, may just have, a mental illness. It could be like rabbis, but that the virus dies, when the carrier dies.

 

Did... did you post in the wrong thread or something? Either way, this is a massive necro so I'm locking this.