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Id like to add on the continuous fight with navigation.

First of all isnt this character from where the map we start is, then a map isnt that stupid as he/she knows her way around even if we dont. Even if he doesnt we still need a way to navigate where we have been.

Maybe we can find maps around that we can look at that give a very simple look over the layout of the town.

And lastly perhaps there should be a compass item that you can find which will help you navigate by a small compass showing up in the UI Perhaps if even paired with a map it can show the direction to your designated first and second safe house on the compass?

Im not saying this to make the game easier, but more cause it is GREATLY to game'y in the form of super difficulty by giving your character 50m vision range and short term memory so he cant even remember what house is down the street which he was just inside of..

Do not mistake this for a minimap(Even though theres a reason games use that) But mainly cause navigation is a serious game breaker on the level of fun.

I accept that these are mainly my own opinions and i only speak for myself and those who agree with this.

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The no was to Mini maps normal maps that you can look at I think were ok'ed I may be wrong here

 

I don't think so, we could just alter the point of this thread to how the Navigation should work, I think if you equip a map in one slot and a compass in the other you can "Orientate" your self on the map, or at least tell if your even on the map,(this comment is about to get a bit gamey here because I cant think of any other way of doing this that would look realistic) you would have a chance to do this based on visible landmarks and your experience/time spent in the area, easy in towns where you can look at road signs hard in the middle of the woods where there's only trees, you could then "navigate" to another place on the map ,place a "waypoint", that will stay as long as you keep both compass and map equipped, drop either one and you have to start from scratch, there would also be a chance of the Waypoint moving from where you wanted it based on distance from your current location and how many landmarks are in your path that are on the map you use, this would not be visible if you look at the map again.

this would make the Park Ranger's perk "Greater Orienteering" mean he has a bonus to Orientate regardless of where he is, less waypoint drift, or maybe the ability to keep the waypoint with only one of the 2 objects equipped. 

(I used waypoints because I'm terrible at direction and cant think of a method for a player "in the game" to keep track of where he wants to go that a player " at the computer" can see)

oh and there would be a chance of placing yourself at the wrong location on the map making your waypoint way of the middle of nowhere

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The no was to Mini maps normal maps that you can look at I think were ok'ed I may be wrong here

 

I don't think so, we could just alter the point of this thread to how the Navigation should work, I think if you equip a map in one slot and a compass in the other you can "Orientate" your self on the map, or at least tell if your even on the map,(this comment is about to get a bit gamey here because I cant think of any other way of doing this that would look realistic) you would have a chance to do this based on visible landmarks and your experience/time spent in the area, easy in towns where you can look at road signs hard in the middle of the woods where there's only trees, you could then "navigate" to another place on the map ,place a "waypoint", that will stay as long as you keep both compass and map equipped, drop either one and you have to start from scratch, there would also be a chance of the Waypoint moving from where you wanted it based on distance from your current location and how many landmarks are in your path that are on the map you use, this would not be visible if you look at the map again.

this would make the Park Ranger's perk "Greater Orienteering" mean he has a bonus to Orientate regardless of where he is, less waypoint drift, or maybe the ability to keep the waypoint with only one of the 2 objects equipped. 

(I used waypoints because I'm terrible at direction and cant think of a method for a player "in the game" to keep track of where he wants to go that a player " at the computer" can see)

oh and there would be a chance of placing yourself at the wrong location on the map making your waypoint way of the middle of nowhere

Yeah I agree to that point, perhaps even make a Navigation skill or something like that so you get better and better at pinpointing your location on the map or something like that by using the stars and a compass and map and such..

But i mainly added that cause of me walking down two or three streets in different directions and i dont even know if im walking in circles by the end(In that characters case, His/her own town, its amazing he/she didnt get lost walking to school or the store...) due to there being no sense of direction nor recognition since many houses are copies of eachother when seen from the outside. This is fine but not if either makes a problem for the other between uniqueness and memory.

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Im fairly new to the game, put in about 12 hours so far and I feel it has big potential...

My biggest gripe is that in those 12 hours i still havent found an axe..  So i cant build anything because I also cant find any wood anywhere.

 

Ideally my character is from this town and he should have SOME idea where things are.   I even walked so far off the map that I was in no-mans land.... so far out of civiliaztion that i just ended a 7 hour game because I didnt want to walk back..

 

There needs to be some type of map system, even if its just a hazy memory map... IE, firestation is in the north of here, etc...

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Im fairly new to the game, put in about 12 hours so far and I feel it has big potential...

My biggest gripe is that in those 12 hours i still havent found an axe..  So i cant build anything because I also cant find any wood anywhere.

 

Ideally my character is from this town and he should have SOME idea where things are.   I even walked so far off the map that I was in no-mans land.... so far out of civiliaztion that i just ended a 7 hour game because I didnt want to walk back..

 

There needs to be some type of map system, even if its just a hazy memory map... IE, firestation is in the north of here, etc...

 

Yeah my point exactly, but until this is added here is a link to a site where someone put up the map for you to use properly in your internet browser.

Map-site: http://pzmap.crash-override.net/#0.7939101395401192,0.13019924621615295,13.866319417127723

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something else I remember this bit is from the dreaded DayZ mod but I think it's appropriate here they had a gps that had a digital map and screen if this is something real and normally available, I'm not the outdorsie type I have no clue if it's real, this might serve as both 

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Im fairly new to the game, put in about 12 hours so far and I feel it has big potential...

My biggest gripe is that in those 12 hours i still havent found an axe..  So i cant build anything because I also cant find any wood anywhere.

 

Ideally my character is from this town and he should have SOME idea where things are.   I even walked so far off the map that I was in no-mans land.... so far out of civiliaztion that i just ended a 7 hour game because I didnt want to walk back..

 

There needs to be some type of map system, even if its just a hazy memory map... IE, firestation is in the north of here, etc...

 

Yeah my point exactly, but until this is added here is a link to a site where someone put up the map for you to use properly in your internet browser.

Map-site: http://pzmap.crash-override.net/#0.7939101395401192,0.13019924621615295,13.866319417127723

 

Oh and to add, the houses are sort of unique in their shape, walk way, neighbour house combo's so this map i linked can let you figure out exactly where you are.

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I don't think it would break immersion if they gave us a street map of sorts.  They could be found at gas stations, motels, etc.  When a player gets one they could equip it in their secondary hand.  Players could look down with the "M" key and have a "You are Here" X with 50m of your location (to the nearest house, street or intersection).  If a player added a pen to their primary hand and hit control with the map UP, you could sketch on the map... like using Paint for windows.  However if you are looking at the map, you are not looking at the game and could find yourself looking like a Tourist, and an easy meal.

 

I have been giving considerable thought to downloading the Paint mode, because NOT being able to mark houses it just crazy.

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I don't think it would break immersion if they gave us a street map of sorts.  They could be found at gas stations, motels, etc.  When a player gets one they could equip it in their secondary hand.  Players could look down with the "M" key and have a "You are Here" X with 50m of your location (to the nearest house, street or intersection).  If a player added a pen to their primary hand and hit control with the map UP, you could sketch on the map... like using Paint for windows.  However if you are looking at the map, you are not looking at the game and could find yourself looking like a Tourist, and an easy meal.

 

I have been giving considerable thought to downloading the Paint mode, because NOT being able to mark houses it just crazy.

 

 

Agreed i feel it actually adds immersion as you can actually navigate which the character should be able to do from the start.

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Im fairly new to the game, put in about 12 hours so far and I feel it has big potential...

My biggest gripe is that in those 12 hours i still havent found an axe..  So i cant build anything because I also cant find any wood anywhere.

 

 

You don't need an axe... it just makes things faster.

 

Grab a hammer, walk to a tree.  Start swinging and turn/move until you hear the "thunk" noise.  It'll take 30-40 "thunks" but you'll take the tree into logs (which you can then saw into planks).

 

A baseball bat is slower than an axe... a golf club or frying pan is slower yet.

 

Don't try this with a fork unless you want to stand there for 160 swings.

 

If you also don't have a saw... use your hammer on doors.  Every door will drop a plank or two (and often a doorknob and a hinge or two).  If you bust out all your neighbor's doors you can at least get some barricades on your home. :)

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The no was to Mini maps normal maps that you can look at I think were ok'ed I may be wrong here

 

I don't think so, we could just alter the point of this thread to how the Navigation should work, I think if you equip a map in one slot and a compass in the other you can "Orientate" your self on the map, or at least tell if your even on the map,(this comment is about to get a bit gamey here because I cant think of any other way of doing this that would look realistic) you would have a chance to do this based on visible landmarks and your experience/time spent in the area, easy in towns where you can look at road signs hard in the middle of the woods where there's only trees, you could then "navigate" to another place on the map ,place a "waypoint", that will stay as long as you keep both compass and map equipped, drop either one and you have to start from scratch, there would also be a chance of the Waypoint moving from where you wanted it based on distance from your current location and how many landmarks are in your path that are on the map you use, this would not be visible if you look at the map again.

this would make the Park Ranger's perk "Greater Orienteering" mean he has a bonus to Orientate regardless of where he is, less waypoint drift, or maybe the ability to keep the waypoint with only one of the 2 objects equipped. 

(I used waypoints because I'm terrible at direction and cant think of a method for a player "in the game" to keep track of where he wants to go that a player " at the computer" can see)

oh and there would be a chance of placing yourself at the wrong location on the map making your waypoint way of the middle of nowhere

 

Go for the realistic approach, you must look and landmarks and work out where you are on the map yourself. Much more fun and involved, less Dev time and it might teach some neck beards orienteering.

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the problem with that is that there are landmarks you "the guy in the game" can see that the you "the guy at the computer" could never see because of the limits of programing without going into first person mode, and that's in the big list of NO's, you need some kind of in game quantifier to locate yourself if you cant actually look around accurately to locate yourself and as stated in some other threads you aren't your guy you might now how to do that but you guy might not or even the reverse, I'm looking at you Park Ranger, and that needs to represented.

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Perhaps a method to set a waypoint in game, say, your safe house. When out and about looting, you push a hotkey. A small piece of text floats above the characters head, either them murmuring out loud, or even a though bubble. "I think it's more to the north..." "I think I'm too far east..."

 

Throw in some degree of inaccuracy to the formula used to determine the direction, and you've got the basis for a good skill.

 

Orienteering Level 1: Gives basic direction, North, South, East, West.

Orienteering Level 2: Gives more precise direction: North-east, South-west.

Orienteering Level 3: Gives a rough distance to the waypoint, in addition to more accurate direction finding.

Orienteering Level 4: Gives a more accurate distance and quite accurate direction.

 

Add in the ability for compasses/tourist maps to give a buff to how accurate your character's guesstimate is, and I think we might have something. Maps could be used to select waypoints you've placed down, so, you would still need to cover up your screen with the map in order to plan a trip, or select a destination.

 

Seeing how watches are being added in, in some form, a high level orienteer could probably use them to find north, and thus treat them as a compass for determining the direction finding buffs. In addition, the measurement of time could be used to estimate your distance travelled.

 

If you want to go full on, implement some method for the character to slowly forget where their waypoint is over time, or when they start to panic or take damage. Yet another use for the moodlets :D

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Perhaps a method to set a waypoint in game, say, your safe house. When out and about looting, you push a hotkey. A small piece of text floats above the characters head, either them murmuring out loud, or even a though bubble. "I think it's more to the north..." "I think I'm too far east..."

 

Throw in some degree of inaccuracy to the formula used to determine the direction, and you've got the basis for a good skill.

 

Orienteering Level 1: Gives basic direction, North, South, East, West.

Orienteering Level 2: Gives more precise direction: North-east, South-west.

Orienteering Level 3: Gives a rough distance to the waypoint, in addition to more accurate direction finding.

Orienteering Level 4: Gives a more accurate distance and quite accurate direction.

 

Add in the ability for compasses/tourist maps to give a buff to how accurate your character's guesstimate is, and I think we might have something. Maps could be used to select waypoints you've placed down, so, you would still need to cover up your screen with the map in order to plan a trip, or select a destination.

 

Seeing how watches are being added in, in some form, a high level orienteer could probably use them to find north, and thus treat them as a compass for determining the direction finding buffs. In addition, the measurement of time could be used to estimate your distance travelled.

 

If you want to go full on, implement some method for the character to slowly forget where their waypoint is over time, or when they start to panic or take damage. Yet another use for the moodlets :D

 

I couldn't have laid the parameters for this idea out better good sir. Thanks :D

 

Maybe with that also add a cheap trait that makes you less likely to forget waypoints when stressed or likewise.

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Why should there be a need for compass when the screen is always oriented so that north is the top right corner? And this isn't going to change... It has been stated by the devs, that there will be maps that have a portion of a towns layout and you need to find out where you are on the map (if at all) just like IRL. It's actually much easier to find yourself on a drawn map and compare it to an isometric view than to be on street level (you can see a much larger portion of the world), so I don't see where the problem would be.

 

I vote no for all kinds of things that tell you what your location is on a map.

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Why should there be a need for compass when the screen is always oriented so that north is the top right corner? And this isn't going to change... It has been stated by the devs, that there will be maps that have a portion of a towns layout and you need to find out where you are on the map (if at all) just like IRL. It's actually much easier to find yourself on a drawn map and compare it to an isometric view than to be on street level (you can see a much larger portion of the world), so I don't see where the problem would be.

 

I vote no for all kinds of things that tell you what your location is on a map.

Well i will probably for now just use the whole game map and find my location and know where everything is at all times eitherway, but just remember for people who dont have that Map site that i use now, this game is extremely confusing in its navigating so to them this addition seems priceless. 

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It's true that it can be confusing to wander around the streets in the first few times, but is there a reason why it shouldn't be? I think minimaps etc. that point your exact location are extremely immersion breaking and spoil a lot of the fun of discovering places. If it's purely for making things easier for beginners I just don't agree that it should be.

 

When I first started in one of the trailer parks, I was too scared of getting lost, so I slowly started learning the surroundings and found it quite a useful way to learn the game altogether. I liked the fact that there wasn't anything pinpointing my location or showing which way I came from. It was scary. You just have to learn the surroundings.

 

And as you pointed out there's blindcoder's map project.

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That's why I suggested my idea of pushing a hotkey to get a very rough indication of where you are relative to a certain point you've marked in the game world or on a map. Nav-aids such as a compass or what-not only increase your character's ability to guesstimate their position, rather than giving you a reading on your HUD or anything.

 

And, yeah. I'm against knowing explicitly where you are on an in-game map. Some degree of uncertainty is always nice :P

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It's true that it can be confusing to wander around the streets in the first few times, but is there a reason why it shouldn't be? I think minimaps etc. that point your exact location are extremely immersion breaking and spoil a lot of the fun of discovering places. If it's purely for making things easier for beginners I just don't agree that it should be.

 

When I first started in one of the trailer parks, I was too scared of getting lost, so I slowly started learning the surroundings and found it quite a useful way to learn the game altogether. I liked the fact that there wasn't anything pinpointing my location or showing which way I came from. It was scary. You just have to learn the surroundings.

 

And as you pointed out there's blindcoder's map project.

 

Yup, though one thing could be traits that maybe help out, like wether your character has a good or bad sense of direction, as that varies alot on people, myself i can trace the steps i take, back, in my mind and know the direction on the go, while i know others cant do this at all.

Though i agree there shouldnt be a dot on the map explaining where you are, if you cant see the correlation between the map and what you see around your character then its not the devs fault. Especially since everything is hand crafted to be unique on the map for now.

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I think that if Maps are added, the game should continue, so if you're reading a map, you have to be sure you're in a safe place

 

Definitely, lots of little things like this can really help immersion.

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<...>

I vote no for all kinds of things that tell you what your location is on a map.

My thoughts exactly.

 

It's true that it can be confusing to wander around the streets in the first few times, but is there a reason why it shouldn't be? I think minimaps etc. that point your exact location are extremely immersion breaking and spoil a lot of the fun of discovering places. If it's purely for making things easier for beginners I just don't agree that it should be.

 

This is the gist of my thoughts on the matter. Reading maps s a fairly simple life skill, and maps don't tell you where you're standing while looking at them with the exception of static local maps in certain parks, malls, etc. I think being able to draw on maps would be a great idea, even if it was as simple as using a single color and the mouse to just MS Paint marking on it however you please. 

In the far future, that could lead to some helpful or interesting situations for multiplayer in addition to all of its merit and uses for solo players.

 

 

When I first started in one of the trailer parks, I was too scared of getting lost, so I slowly started learning the surroundings and found it quite a useful way to learn the game altogether. I liked the fact that there wasn't anything pinpointing my location or showing which way I came from. It was scary. You just have to learn the surroundings.

 

I feel as though the people who want waypoints and map indicators want to avoid that fear, and I find that silly. The first thing you should do in a situation such as this would be to learn your immediate surroundings... That only makes sense. And heck, after playing the game enough, you could definitely become familiar enough with the game's static world to never even NEED a map, as orienting yourself based on familiar houses and landmarks would become second nature.

 

And as you pointed out there's blindcoder's map project.

Apollo's idea of having a hotkey that says "I AM ______ DIRECTION FROM ______" is no better. In fact it's probably worse. All that will do is make people mark wherever they want to go on their map, then they'll just mash the key as they make their way there, being told all the while which direction they should go by their avatar who shouldn't know or be aware of anything that the player isn't. And as I've stated before elsewhere, I certainly don't want my avatar to spout anything that isn't conducive to what I'm thinking.

It makes me think of the bread crumb trail from Fable. Just hold the button down and run along the line, disregarding your surroundings entirely, (Those poor environment artists...) while it leads you to precisely where you want to go. It'll have a very similar effect on Zomboid. People would hit locations for a map first, mark the place they want to loot or hunker down, then use the "bread crumb method" to get there.

It would completely destroy any need at all for any player skill or thought for navigation. And I don't think trying to reword the suggestion so that "the avatar doesn't always know" or "only has a vague idea" wouldn't help as neither of those address the issue that he knows where to go and you, the player who is by and large being represented in the game by this avatar, hasn't the foggiest idea where your going and it doesn't even matter. 

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