Multiplayer Supplies Preable

[Armredhoof]

Ok I know this is a bit ahead but I like to get some ideas down so when it becomes an issue we have something to work with

 

The big thing with multiplayer is supplies, and the style of how it's set up,

 

There is 2 ways I can see of setting it up , A player makes a game (maybe a password to make it private) and people join it or

The PZ owners set up several servers and all players join those, either way we need to discuss how supplies are introduced into the game to make it fair for new players. 

 

If the player sets up the game there is no issue with the method of supplies as the build is now, the only reason to join a game is to play with friends, or to goto a PvP game where the supplies are secondary to the fight.

 

If the owners are setting up the servers there needs to be a constant influx of new supplies into the game world to make it fair for a new player to join otherwise the first people to join will have an unfair advantage when it comes to certain supplies, like nails.

 

Here is some of my thoughts on how this could be handled

 

1. Blacksmithing : you can melt down unwanted metal items to make wanted ones (gives more use to all those butter knives, forks, and spoons.) and from all the reading I have done one of the first things newbie blacksmiths do is to make nails to get used to how metal works in forging.

 

2.Air dropped supplies : there is the plane and helicopter in the game right now to simulate the actions of NPC's that aren't in the game right now, don't remove them, instead they spawn crates that have supplies in them so new players to a server have something besides well looted homes to look forward to.

 

3.NPC Mega Wharehouse : These Guys have tones of stuff in there but are too scared to come out, but are willing to trade items for others (hard to grow food inside there)

[EuphoriaToRegret]

Blacksmithing/Metalsmithing is actually a nice idea, especially In multiplayer when you've got a group of people that you all want to do something for the better of the group. Air dropped supplies is nice, but does it make sense? I mean, why would the military be dropping supplies into an area that looks to be covered in the undead? I'd imagine, early on, it makes sense, but when you're into like day 3 or 4 and not even NPCs are running around, the military probably wont be so happy to help. 

and finally, the warehouse. Its interesting that you could trade with other groups of NPCs, but I feel like the warehouse itself shouldnt be just IN the game. I mean, you would know right off the bat where a nice area of supplies is.

Another idea would be to have the military roll through every once and awhile (like a patrol) and being able to kill them and take all their nice goodies. 

One thing I have to say is that food itself won't just "respawn." Your group will need to find a way to create a large supply while still making it efficient. Farming is extremely important later on in the game, by that time, all the food that is in the surrounding houses and markets will most likely have been consumed by you or a past character. 

[Rathlord]

Can't stress how big of a NO this is. First, this isn't an MMO and I can say with pretty high certainty that the devs will not be hosting servers for the general population.

Black smithing. This is tremendously unfeasible without professional equipment. To even melt a soda can you need an incredibly hot, focused fire with some kind of air pump. And that for a weak metal with the LOWEST melting point of the commonly used metals. Very, very, very unrealistic and gamey, will not happen.

Air drops are on the confirmed NO list from the devs. That should speak for itself.

Having a giant "shop" is equally unrealistic and goes against the entire premise of the game.

Servers will either need to reset every once in a while, or make do with what can be salvaged and crafted. Things SHOULD get rare over time- that drives immersive, emergent gameplay. This whole suggestion is a discredit to what PZ strives to be.

[13thGeneral]

Yes, you'd need an incredible heat source to melt most metals, and know the basics of separating the metal from impurities, or adding compounds (for malleability or strengthening) - however, with basic knowledge (e.g. engineering/mechanical skill) you can build a fairly simple forge and even moulds. An acquaintance of mine does blacksmithing at Renfairs, and at local historic events, and one of his pastimes is building small backyard forges (similar to backyard BBQ-Grille pits) for people wanting to do basic blacksmithing. It's not too hard with the right equipment; three basic tools (a hammer, pliers/tongs, and a hacksaw), along with a forge (brake drum/bellows works best) and suitable anvil, can be used for making a variety of tools, equipment and household items. Combining a few skills, like carpentry and sewing, you could make a simple bellows.

All it takes is imagination, some knowledge, and figuring out an implementation system for the game, and it's not only a possibility, it makes for a more robust game with deep playability. Nobody is saying you should be able to make things right out of the gate - this game has a crafting system already that requires much learning, practice, and patience. So why not some blacksmithing to make rudimentary nails?

[Rathlord]

Because of the people in Muldraugh, Kentucky how many would you say would be technically trained, physically able, and have the supplies to make this happen?

 

Less than 1% of the population (if any) would have the working knowledge to make a forge even well enough to melt tin, not to mention a metal like steel or iron. Add to that the extremely low chances of finding all of those parts with a person who knows how to do it, and you have an incredibly unrealistic system that barely any players could access unless done in a game-y and completely wrong way. 

[13thGeneral]

Because of the people in Muldraugh, Kentucky how many would you say would be technically trained, physically able, and have the supplies to make this happen?

 

Less than 1% of the population (if any) would have the working knowledge to make a forge even well enough to melt tin, not to mention a metal like steel or iron. Add to that the extremely low chances of finding all of those parts with a person who knows how to do it, and you have an incredibly unrealistic system that barely any players could access unless done in a game-y and completely wrong way. 

 

You don't have to find people in this game to learn carpentry or farming, just skill books. And anything built with lvl 1 carpentry starts off being really basic and shabby, until you practice more and earn xp. How is that any more realistic, or 'easy to learn', without someone teaching you, than learning simple blacksmith forging?

 

A forge is similar to a pizza oven, with a manual air-pump for 'stoking' the coals. If you can stack bricks and build a fire, you can make a basic forge. I know how to do this, and I've only read about it; I've never done it, but with practice, I could get better.

 

And how much more simplistically reduced and "game-y" would it be, as I said, than farming or carpentry already is?

[k12314]

The best way to have weapon crafting would just be to have a character sharpen sticks or something, so that way even if regular weapons actually run out, players can still make weaponry within realistic bounds. And of course, farming and rain barrels for water so you can sustain yourself. Make the players rely on their own skills and ingenuity to survive in the long run.

[13thGeneral]

The best way to have weapon crafting would just be to have a character sharpen sticks or something, so that way even if regular weapons actually run out, players can still make weaponry within realistic bounds. And of course, farming and rain barrels for water so you can sustain yourself. Make the players rely on their own skills and ingenuity to survive in the long run.

 

And that's why I think at least being able to make simple metal objects, like nails, would be benificial for the long-game.

[AirborneM4]

You can make a fire hot enough to forge soft metals very easily. Charcoal+Bellows.

 

Actually forging the metal into something usable would take experience. 

[Rathlord]

Nailing boards together ≠ making a fire hot enough to forge metal. Not even remotely. The real world understanding of people who lurk the internet always blows my mind… if you're just convinced that regardless of what the real world has to say about it, you're right because you've seen a YouTube video… there's not much I can say to convince you. Cheers.

[AirborneM4]

Nailing boards together ≠ making a fire hot enough to forge metal. Not even remotely. The real world understanding of people who lurk the internet always blows my mind… if you're just convinced that regardless of what the real world has to say about it, you're right because you've seen a YouTube video… there's not much I can say to convince you. Cheers

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me or not, but i'm going to reply anyway. I've personally made fires hot enough to make iron and softer metals white hot. It's not as hard as you think. Although i agree that metal forging shouldn't be in the game for a number of reasons. Mainly because it takes a lot of time to get the fire hot enough, and that the average person doesn't have the knowledge to do this.

 

( No disrespect intended, Rathlord)

[13thGeneral]

I will concede the point since the suggestion has been posed and discussed far enough for now. It could be a fairly complex system to implement at this stage, anyhow. There are pros and Cons, and justification on all sides. Plus, as it is, things like nails and hinges can be reclaimed/scavenged/salvaged by destroying the plethora of existing doors and such, so it's not exactly an urgent issue for the Devs to focus on; they have enough on their plates already with fixing bugs and balancing existing skills. Oh, and fixing multilevel structures so they work – and not dump you through the floor to your doom - is kind of more important.

 

It would just be pretty cool making your own nails, or eventually bladed weapons.

[k12314]

I will concede the point since the suggestion has been posed and discussed far enough for now. It could be a fairly complex system to implement at this stage, anyhow. There are pros and Cons, and justification on all sides. Plus, as it is, things like nails and hinges can be reclaimed/scavenged/salvaged by destroying the plethora of existing doors and such, so it's not exactly an urgent issue for the Devs to focus on; they have enough on their plates already with fixing bugs and balancing existing skills. Oh, and fixing multilevel structures so they work – and not dump you through the floor to your doom - is kind of more important.

 

It would just be pretty cool making your own nails, or eventually bladed weapons.

 

As for the nails, I think someone made a mod to have a sort of wooden variant you could make. Basically, imagine small stakes used instead of nails so you can still build when nails run out. That is also a viable solution, and that allows you to make spiked bats and boards as well! More makeshift weaponry, alternative crafting, etc. is what is needed, and there are solutions, but for now we have bigger fish to fry.

[Rathlord]

There are lots of alternatives to nails. Be it glue, lashing with string, cable, or sinew; tongue and groove out of wood; dovetailing; or wooden dowels, there's certainly no need to force a silly and unrealistic system in the game when dozens of easy alternatives exist.

[Fj45]

There are lots of alternatives to nails. Be it glue, lashing with string, cable, or sinew; tongue and groove out of wood; dovetailing; or wooden dowels, there's certainly no need to force a silly and unrealistic system in the game when dozens of easy alternatives exist.

 

Forgot duct tape. Duct tape fixes everything.

[Connall]

 

There are lots of alternatives to nails. Be it glue, lashing with string, cable, or sinew; tongue and groove out of wood; dovetailing; or wooden dowels, there's certainly no need to force a silly and unrealistic system in the game when dozens of easy alternatives exist.

 

Forgot duct tape. Duct tape fixes everything.

 

 

 

I imagine only Canadians will get the reference.

[13thGeneral]

 

I will concede the point since the suggestion has been posed and discussed far enough for now. It could be a fairly complex system to implement at this stage, anyhow. There are pros and Cons, and justification on all sides. Plus, as it is, things like nails and hinges can be reclaimed/scavenged/salvaged by destroying the plethora of existing doors and such, so it's not exactly an urgent issue for the Devs to focus on; they have enough on their plates already with fixing bugs and balancing existing skills. Oh, and fixing multilevel structures so they work – and not dump you through the floor to your doom - is kind of more important.

 

It would just be pretty cool making your own nails, or eventually bladed weapons.

 

As for the nails, I think someone made a mod to have a sort of wooden variant you could make. Basically, imagine small stakes used instead of nails so you can still build when nails run out. That is also a viable solution, and that allows you to make spiked bats and boards as well! More makeshift weaponry, alternative crafting, etc. is what is needed, and there are solutions, but for now we have bigger fish to fry.

 

 

There are lots of alternatives to nails. Be it glue, lashing with string, cable, or sinew; tongue and groove out of wood; dovetailing; or wooden dowels, there's certainly no need to force a silly and unrealistic system in the game when dozens of easy alternatives exist.

 

There are many types of wood hardware, connectors, joiners, and fasteners, as you both describe. As carpentry is already an active skill, it makes sense to expand upon it. Among other common forms of joining and fastening in carpentry, as mentioned, are also toggle & clasp/loop fasteners that can have a wide use, from clothing to rigging. And carpentry is something many people are exposed to at a young age, and many US schools offer classes.

 

 

All very good points that I can agree with would make more sense, and be easier to implement, than blacksmithing/metallurgy. I still believe that balcksmithing is possible as a learned skill and would fit, but in retrospect it's not really a priority when there are so many other things that are far more reasonable.

[AirborneM4]

 

 

There are lots of alternatives to nails. Be it glue, lashing with string, cable, or sinew; tongue and groove out of wood; dovetailing; or wooden dowels, there's certainly no need to force a silly and unrealistic system in the game when dozens of easy alternatives exist.

 

Forgot duct tape. Duct tape fixes everything.

 

 

 

I imagine only Canadians will get the reference.

 

The red green show, i loved watching that.

[LeoIvanov]

A simple reminder for the folks who like to argue in the suggestions board with the likes of Rathlord etcetera :

 

"It's simple, I know how to do it and did it countless times" is not a valid response when the topic is about "What an average human would know".

 

For example, I know how to open cans with bare hands and done it several times myself. However, if I was to walk outside on the street and ask every single pedestrian about how to open them like that, majority (about 90% or more) wouldn't have a clue. To get a clue about what "average person" knows and what he doesn't know, simply ask about 10 random people (be it your relatives, or anyone else who isn't interested in the topic) how to do it. 

 

If everyone says "no idea dude", then it's probably not "simple", or "easy". Even if it is, not many people know about it.

[Connall]

 

 

 

There are lots of alternatives to nails. Be it glue, lashing with string, cable, or sinew; tongue and groove out of wood; dovetailing; or wooden dowels, there's certainly no need to force a silly and unrealistic system in the game when dozens of easy alternatives exist.

 

Forgot duct tape. Duct tape fixes everything.

 

 

 

I imagine only Canadians will get the reference.

 

The red green show, i loved watching that.

 

 

Ahh. A man with good taste I see.

A simple reminder for the folks who like to argue in the suggestions board with the likes of Rathlord etcetera :

 

"It's simple, I know how to do it and did it countless times" is not a valid response when the topic is about "What an average human would know".

 

For example, I know how to open cans with bare hands and done it several times myself. However, if I was to walk outside on the street and ask every single pedestrian about how to open them like that, majority (about 90% or more) wouldn't have a clue. To get a clue about what "average person" knows and what he doesn't know, simply ask about 10 random people (be it your relatives, or anyone else who isn't interested in the topic) how to do it. 

 

If everyone says "no idea dude", then it's probably not "simple", or "easy". Even if it is, not many people know about it.

 

Yeah. It's been fun trying to discuss with those people.

[Fj45]

Trying is the right word.