Some thoughts about armor

[Fj45]

Hard to die of heatstroke when it's January. We're in an armor thread, mobility isn't something I was concerned about with my post. But still, our own military is effective when lugging 70+ pounds of gear/armor around Trashcanistan in 110+ degree weather so if our character is physically fit it shouldn't be an excuse to immediately right off the idea.

 

Unless it snowing you would overheat in a wetsuit. Have you EVER worn one?

[ApolloDiaspora]

@imadjentleman

 

It's more, wetsuits are stiff, bulky, and made of thick RUBBER that is designed to inhibit the flow of water from one side to another. After all, that's how they keep you warm in the water - A layer of water is trapped close to the body.

 

Wearing one on land? When you start sweating, the sweat can't evaporate off your body. You will get heatstroke so damned fast. However, when winter rolls around (and I mean rolls around HARD, with snow and ice everywhere), wearing a wetsuit under your sweaters and all could be an effective method of staying warm. I seem to recall something about special forces soldiers doing that in the arctic/antarctic regions. Protection if you slip into the freezing water, and it's lighter than carrying even more cold weather gear.

 

However, for our poor bastards stuck in Kentucky, I think a wetsuit would be better used if you cut it up for material. Say, snipping off the forearm bits and wearing those for bite protection. Would still be sweaty and uncomfortable though.

[Myth]

Duct tape, magazines, old tires, all good materials for improvised biter armor.

[American Steel]

There are two types of people who use wet suits:

1. Those that pee in their wet suit
2. Those that lie about not peeing in their wet suit

I would not want to wear any sort of wet suit as a form of protection.  They are restrictive and capture body heat.  They are also cut easily BUT they can save your hide.  You might not die from heat stroke in a wet suit in January, but you will still sweat like crazy in the thing... which leads down the road to dehydration.  When you finally do peel that joker off of you, you better be someplace warm and toasty or you are going to freeze PDQ.

 

A dry suit now is a completely different, and altogether more bukly, option.

 

I would expect to see some sort of diving equipment with the assigned water rescue team.  That could either be in the Police Department or Fire Department.  If the local budget is to tight, they may have to subcontract a local expert or call in for Federal aid.  Someone runs off the road and their car ends up in a bad way in a swift creek or river... someone has to pull them out (alive or dead).

 

Honestly, the wet suit is not what interests me in this whole operation.  I want access to their rescue gear and supplies.  Canabalized diving equipment could have a host of uses in a survival situation.  The least of which is hooking the air tank up to a pneumatic piston, so I could end Zombies like we dispatch cattle.  No Country for Old Men anyone?

 

Disclaimer: PADI Advance Diver, Certified on Johnston Atoll.  Never SORTIE certified, sniff... sniff...

[Daec]

So i am back again after doing my research.
since common logic and anything related to Walking dead and WWZ is rejected and there is always an reference to the Zombie Survival Guide, i bought it and read it (fun to read and im already past the whole weapon an armory stuff).
 
after researching and carefully reading, The Zombie survival guide wouldn't be the lecture i'd prefer in this situation if it comes to equipment.

The whole part (though a fictional book) just isn't that much fleshed out (no offensive feelings plz).

 

first of all the weapons:

it starts with "Heavy machine guns. first off, "Heavy" machine guns are mounted on HMMWVs or stationary beeing somewhere around Cal. .50

the meantioned 5,56mm M249 SAW isn't a "Heavy" machine gun. i guees he wanted to talk about LMGs ("light machine guns"). running around with a caliber .50 HMG would be way to cumbersome. An Ammobox for those allone is enough to carry. Even if i consider it should have been "Light Machine Guns" everything mentioned in the paragraph seems like, learned from videogames, where naturally LMGs aren't even capable of firing a bullet straight but seem to be designed with a cone, where the barrel should be. This isn't true. but a M249 SAW should be hard to get in Muldraugh ;D. i just wanted to use this to show, how "fictional" the zombie survival guide is (still fun to read an i only can recommend). An LMG in reality is capable of shooting straight. there are even models able for single fire. so you have a semi-auto gun with a 100 bullet drum. With a bipod or something to lay it down, you could easily mow down a bunch of Zombies at pretty decent range...in reality. The whole part of "how unpractical assault rifles are" is more like...meh. The whole psychological factor of beeing able to switch to full auto and do the rambo is pretty overdrawn. if there is a situation where you'd have to switch to full auto, the distance would be relativly small so that full auto would be effective again if you have a basic understanding of shooting. (still not talking about the ability to get an AK-74 in Muldraugh, just pointing out.).

 

but to get back to the Topic

The Zombie survival guide only covers 6 types of armors

Full plate Mail:

where in muldraugh should be one, and who would be silly enough to do the shining knight in a Zombie apocalypse?

therefore i won't have to mention how bad of an idea it is according to common sense and the zombie survival guide.

 

OPs beloved Chain Mail:

the major disadvantage i would agree with is the noise.

the years of combat training needed to fight in a Chain Mail sounds a little bit overdrawn. of course it may be uncomfortable (wich could distract you according to the ZSG) but on the other hand it fits tighter than a full plate mail. The weight would be (in my opinion) something each person needs to consider for him or herself.

 

Shark Suits:

all in all better than Chain Mail because it is said to protect better than a chain mail but only weighting the half of it....since i never had one i can't really argue about it, but i don't know why this thing should make that much of noise as stated by the ZSG (besides rubbernoises).

 

Helmets:

ZSG states they are useless in a zombie apocalypse and only obstruct vision (i'll get to this later)

 

Bulletproof vest:

they only protect from bullets, and everything able to fire a gun would try to aim for the head so i can agree to that.

 

Kevlar covers:

all in all, if you can find them for arms and legs they could be very usefull according to ZSG, even though at the chainmail paragraph it is stated that bites could still break bones, rip flesh or tear muscles, there is no such point for kevlar covers. the only real downside according to ZSG is the danger of getting false bravery....even though this is another personal problem and doesn't say anything about the feasability.

 

So after all, i can only say, i wouln't consider the ZSG as an argument when it comes to equipment (not fully). the part is very thin and not really fleshed out pretty much saying everything is bad. for the weapons is stated there are no "jack of all trades" guns. every gun has it pros and cons. even though this might apply to human warfare, i can't truely agree with it for a Zombie apocalypse. i agree that a semi auto rifle would be my weapon of choice. Assault rifle or DMR is something you could consider for yourself imo.Even a LMG can be switched to semi auto and get the job done properly, even though it is heavier than a AR or DMR.

 

Armor wouldn't only be a choice to me because to protect against the infection. i would prefer it alone to protect me from the enviroment.

if i had to choose what to wear of all my available things it would look something like this:

 

Head: Half helmet (baseball helmet or a half motorcycle helmet). no obstructed vision, but i won't get killed if something falls on my head. there could always be something falling down or i could trip and fall...no hospital...dead

 

Body: Modern Motorcycle overall (mine has elbow/half forearm, back, knee/half shin protectors). they have a thermolayer to keep the warm air in if it gets cold (you could wear warm clothing underneath aswell) and if it gets warm, you remove it and the air can exchange through small punctures in the leather at the front torso area and the leather delivers an additional decent protection against bites and infection.

 

Hands: Motorcycle leathergloves. they have knuckle guards so you won't get scratches if hand to hand combat is needed where an infection could slip through. same goes for falls. they are designed for falls they also are thin enough so my fingers stay agile and i can still feel and properly grab.

 

Feet: S4 working boots. Steel layer in the sole(imagine dying of a rusty nail...that would be stupid), steel caps for the front, oil and acid proof sole (no slipping to death) and electricity proof (there could always be a cable hanging in a puddle).

 

Face: M3 filter mask.(when entering hazardous areas) there is so much rotten stuff around (not just the zombies, but rotten food in supermarkets, dead animals and human remains) that you could die of an other infection than the Zombie infection.

 

so there would still be the danger of broken bones and bruises from bites but the infection risk would be reduced but the main purpose would be to protect of the enviroment. remeber, there are no more hospitals. The full weight of this would't be an issue (it's not "much" more than your casual daywear).

 

P.s. FJ45, where did you get that avatar? i want a woodman to

[Fj45]

So i am back again after doing my research.

since common logic and anything related to Walking dead and WWZ is rejected and there is always an reference to the Zombie Survival Guide, i bought it and read it (fun to read and im already past the whole weapon an armory stuff).

 

Armor wouldn't only be a choice to me because to protect against the infection. i would prefer it alone to protect me from the enviroment.

if i had to choose what to wear of all my available things it would look something like this:

 

Head: Half helmet (baseball helmet or a half motorcycle helmet). no obstructed vision, but i won't get killed if something falls on my head. there could always be something falling down or i could trip and fall...no hospital...dead

 

Body: Modern Motorcycle overall (mine has elbow/half forearm, back, knee/half shin protectors). they have a thermolayer to keep the warm air in if it gets cold (you could wear warm clothing underneath aswell) and if it gets warm, you remove it and the air can exchange through small punctures in the leather at the front torso area and the leather delivers an additional decent protection against bites and infection.

 

Hands: Motorcycle leathergloves. they have knuckle guards so you won't get scratches if hand to hand combat is needed where an infection could slip through. same goes for falls. they are designed for falls they also are thin enough so my fingers stay agile and i can still feel and properly grab.

 

Feet: S4 working boots. Steel layer in the sole(imagine dying of a rusty nail...that would be stupid), steel caps for the front, oil and acid proof sole (no slipping to death) and electricity proof (there could always be a cable hanging in a puddle).

 

Face: M3 filter mask.(when entering hazardous areas) there is so much rotten stuff around (not just the zombies, but rotten food in supermarkets, dead animals and human remains) that you could die of an other infection than the Zombie infection.

 

so there would still be the danger of broken bones and bruises from bites but the infection risk would be reduced but the main purpose would be to protect of the enviroment. remeber, there are no more hospitals. The full weight of this would't be an issue (it's not "much" more than your casual daywear).

 

P.s. FJ45, where did you get that avatar? i want a woodman to

 

Definitely agree that the book should have been longer, hoping Max writes a 2.0.

 

 

What you would wear sounds pretty good, personally I would go for my jacket I mentioned earlier in the thread and firehelmet. Good head protection, comes with a faceshield and a torch mount if its a newer model. Boots and mask sound good.

 

 

 

You can make one here: http://innawoods.net/

 

 

Duct tape, magazines, old tires, all good materials for improvised biter armor.

 

PLEASE READ THE REPLIES IN THE THREAD.

[Jatta Pake]

You guys are all wrong.  I would wear a jock strap and cover myself in a layer of grease.  What a zombie can't grab, a zombie can't hold and bite.

 

The more "armor" you wear, the more crap you have on you that can get caught on something while you are moving.  To survive zombies, you need speed and evasiveness.  You need to be able to react quickly if something touches your body.  "Armor" of any sort just gives zombies something to grab onto.

 

Your "armor" should be a strongly fortified structure.  Zombies always attack so there is no need to fight them on their grounds.  Fight them from a defensive position with long spears and makeshift traps.  Employ lights and sounds to confuse them.  Nets would be incredibly effective against a horde as they writhe into a tightly balled mass unable to pass through your choke points.

[Fj45]

You guys are all wrong.  I would wear a jock strap and cover myself in a layer of grease.  What a zombie can't grab, a zombie can't hold and bite.

 

The more "armor" you wear, the more crap you have on you that can get caught on something while you are moving.  To survive zombies, you need speed and evasiveness.  You need to be able to react quickly if something touches your body.  "Armor" of any sort just gives zombies something to grab onto.

 

Your "armor" should be a strongly fortified structure.  Zombies always attack so there is no need to fight them on their grounds.  Fight them from a defensive position with long spears and makeshift traps.  Employ lights and sounds to confuse them.  Nets would be incredibly effective against a horde as they writhe into a tightly balled mass unable to pass through your choke points.

 

That's pretty much what I said, most armor would be terrible for looting but it could be used well in defense of a fixed position. 

[American Steel]

 

You guys are all wrong.  I would wear a jock strap and cover myself in a layer of grease.  What a zombie can't grab, a zombie can't hold and bite.

 

The more "armor" you wear, the more crap you have on you that can get caught on something while you are moving.  To survive zombies, you need speed and evasiveness.  You need to be able to react quickly if something touches your body.  "Armor" of any sort just gives zombies something to grab onto.

 

Your "armor" should be a strongly fortified structure.  Zombies always attack so there is no need to fight them on their grounds.  Fight them from a defensive position with long spears and makeshift traps.  Employ lights and sounds to confuse them.  Nets would be incredibly effective against a horde as they writhe into a tightly balled mass unable to pass through your choke points.

 

That's pretty much what I said, most armor would be terrible for looting but it could be used well in defense of a fixed position. 

 

 

I can't tell if you are serious about streaking through the end of the world.  It does not help you when you are away from your base of operations looking for supplies.  Being covered in a layer of grease is dandy.  Now try holding onto that bat and swing?  Oh look a door, let me just open it up... hands keep slipping off.. I wonder why.  After you somehow slip and slide through a house and loot it for all it is worth, you are now carrying a bag (or two).  Now they whole grease job your performed on youself up to this point is almost moot because Zed now has something to grab (the packs and where the grease was rubbed off).

 

Not saying I would like to go looting in plate and chain, but a leather jacket with a good pair of jeans, gloves and jump boots would be more my style.

[Fj45]

Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't mean THAT! 

 

You would still wear clothing, going nude would be nuts!

[American Steel]

Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't mean THAT! 

 

You would still wear clothing, going nude would be nuts!

 

: Chuckle :

[ApolloDiaspora]

Though, to be far, having your character start to peel of their clothes and grease up once an insanity moodle appears would be hilarious.

 

I said go out in a blaze of glory! Not streak like a comet!

[Fj45]

Yes.... that would be one hell of a feature. 

[ExcentriCreation]

I've come a little late to the party & the arguments of realism & feasibility aside, you cant seriously be suggesting that TIS implement IMPENETRABLE (for the sake of bites) armors like chainmail & kevlar plate that would completely nullify the players ability to get "infected"

My own personal opinion on the matter though.... They say the best protection against brown snakes is a good set of denim & I gotta say, I'm a HELL of a lot more concerned about a snake biting me & drawing blood than a human mouth with human teeth. That said, a far more fitting addition to the game would be a bite resistance value associated with ALL clothing.... Say a vest for example, keeps you cool but has a virtually non-existent bite resistance value. A leather Jacket on the other hand would have a high temperature value & a high bite resistance value....

As for SPECIFIC armor, I would like to see vests & riot gear though for future NPC conflicts, not zombies

 

The Argument  is Moot  but  I TOTALLY  agree that you could make chainmail..... 2mm wire, 8mm rod, hammer & plyers..... Oh &  about 2 months

[ApolloDiaspora]

Actually, I like one of the suggestions in an early post, now that I think of it.

 

Take some thin sheet metal, the kind they use in the cheapie shelving unit kits, punch some holes in it, bend it around your forearm/shin/limb-of-choice, and use some sturdy string (shoelaces) to tie it in place. Wrap the metal skin around a small amount of padding, say a piece of bath towel, then apply ductape to the seams and edges of the metal plate.

 

Obviously your joints are fully exposed, but it's the best thing I can think of for the moment as a compromise between bite protection, impact reduction, mobility, and the ability to be snagged or grabbed by something. And of course, your torso is still fully exposed, but we can't have everything.

 

But as I've said before, the main problem with adding armour to the game is the sense of protection it gives you. Under normal circumstances, you wouldn't enter that room with three zombies in it, but since you're wearing some spiff(o)y new armour, you figure you can take them. And then you get bitten. On the crotch.

[Fj45]

I've come a little late to the party & the arguments of realism & feasibility aside, you cant seriously be suggesting that TIS implement IMPENETRABLE (for the sake of bites) armors like chainmail & kevlar plate that would completely nullify the players ability to get "infected"

My own personal opinion on the matter though.... They say the best protection against brown snakes is a good set of denim & I gotta say, I'm a HELL of a lot more concerned about a snake biting me & drawing blood than a human mouth with human teeth. That said, a far more fitting addition to the game would be a bite resistance value associated with ALL clothing.... Say a vest for example, keeps you cool but has a virtually non-existent bite resistance value. A leather Jacket on the other hand would have a high temperature value & a high bite resistance value....

As for SPECIFIC armor, I would like to see vests & riot gear though for future NPC conflicts, not zombies

 

The Argument  is Moot  but  I TOTALLY  agree that you could make chainmail..... 2mm wire, 8mm rod, hammer & plyers..... Oh &  about 2 months

 

Kind of already said. Also, once again, your average survivor would never be able to make practical, strong and light chain mail. If they could build it in the first place.

 

 

Actually, I like one of the suggestions in an early post, now that I think of it.

 

Take some thin sheet metal, the kind they use in the cheapie shelving unit kits, punch some holes in it, bend it around your forearm/shin/limb-of-choice, and use some sturdy string (shoelaces) to tie it in place. Wrap the metal skin around a small amount of padding, say a piece of bath towel, then apply ductape to the seams and edges of the metal plate.

 

Obviously your joints are fully exposed, but it's the best thing I can think of for the moment as a compromise between bite protection, impact reduction, mobility, and the ability to be snagged or grabbed by something. And of course, your torso is still fully exposed, but we can't have everything.

 

But as I've said before, the main problem with adding armour to the game is the sense of protection it gives you. Under normal circumstances, you wouldn't enter that room with three zombies in it, but since you're wearing some spiff(o)y new armour, you figure you can take them. And then you get bitten. On the crotch.

 

Heat. Also, that would be heavy. 

[ApolloDiaspora]

Heat would be a problem, but, I don't think it would be too heavy over all. I was mainly thinking of the metal-covered towel as a way to protect your forearms anyway. Using thin metal to begin with, and not that much of it, probably only weigh 1-2kgs per arm at the most. As for overheating, well, you're only wearing it on your forearms, and if you start PZ in August or so, whatever the starting date is, Winter's not that far around the corner.

 

Come to think of it, and admittedly, it sounds a bit dumb, PVC pipes might be the best thing to make zombie armour out of. Just substitute the thin, flexible metal plate in my previous idea with a quarter/half a plastic pipe. Weighs a lot less, already got a nice smooth, round surface to deflect bites, and the thickness to ward off a good chomp. Would just need to apply even more tape to make the ends of the plate nice and smooth relative to the straps holding into onto your arm. Pretty much scratch-built sports gear, now that I think of it.

 

In fact, that's the main problem with this idea of a plate-coated anything. You need to stop anything catching on the underside of the plate, or you've just given them something to hold on to.

[American Steel]

I think of a metal covered forarm as more of a "limb buckler".  Consider it an off hand weapon.  If a Zed bites you, his first crack it as the arm.  You will not be bitten or scratch there, but they wont try to bit you there again.  On the flip side you do take some some sort of crushing/brusing damage.  Sort of like a padded arm gauntlet for training dogs to bite/takedown.  For the sake of balance it could only take a few hits before it became usless.

 

If a character wanted to give up his secondary slot for this, I think it would be a fair trade.  That means a player cannot use two handed weapons, long guns or carry a bag in their off hand slot.

[Fj45]

I think of a metal covered forarm as more of a "limb buckler".  Consider it an off hand weapon.  If a Zed bites you, his first crack it as the arm.  You will not be bitten or scratch there, but they wont try to bite you there again.  

 

That would take intelligence.

[TheCenturion]

 

I think of a metal covered forarm as more of a "limb buckler".  Consider it an off hand weapon.  If a Zed bites you, his first crack it as the arm.  You will not be bitten or scratch there, but they wont try to bite you there again.  

 

That would take intelligence.

 

 

That it would. People keep forgetting zombies don't feel pain, and don't 'learn' as such. They're persistent buggers. I have no doubt they'd continue clamping down on which ever part comes closer to their mouths, no matter what its' made of. 

Or maybe they can detect what is natural flesh and what isn't? I mean they DO know that you're walking flesh. Maybe they tell the difference between what's armoured and what's not.

[Fj45]

Nope. 

[American Steel]

 

 

I think of a metal covered forarm as more of a "limb buckler".  Consider it an off hand weapon.  If a Zed bites you, his first crack it as the arm.  You will not be bitten or scratch there, but they wont try to bite you there again.  

 

That would take intelligence.

 

 

That it would. People keep forgetting zombies don't feel pain, and don't 'learn' as such. They're persistent buggers. I have no doubt they'd continue clamping down on which ever part comes closer to their mouths, no matter what its' made of. 

Or maybe they can detect what is natural flesh and what isn't? I mean they DO know that you're walking flesh. Maybe they tell the difference between what's armoured and what's not.

 

 

Zombies will go after you with a single purpose, but they have some sort of base level ability to function.  They have to be able to make sense of their enivornment and stimilus.  If they can follow a blood trail, surely they can tell what they are biting is not edible.  Biting down harder does not make something more edible.  If they know they can't attack you through a brick wall but must use a door or a window, then I bet they could but 2 x 2 together for a sheet of metal strapped to your arm.

[Fj45]

No, zombies have intelligence lower then that of insects. They wouldn't be able to follow blood trails or tell between flesh and stone. For example: zombies on remains of bridge. Human on other side. Zombies re-enact lemmings.

[Connall]

No, zombies have intelligence lower then that of insects. They wouldn't be able to follow blood trails or tell between flesh and stone. For example: zombies on remains of bridge. Human on other side. Zombies re-enact lemmings.

 

I don't know, I think they must have somewhat of an alright intelligence if they are able to identify humans so easily. They got to have some base functioning, sounds, sights etc.

[American Steel]

 

No, zombies have intelligence lower then that of insects. They wouldn't be able to follow blood trails or tell between flesh and stone. For example: zombies on remains of bridge. Human on other side. Zombies re-enact lemmings.

 

I don't know, I think they must have somewhat of an alright intelligence if they are able to identify humans so easily. They got to have some base functioning, sounds, sights etc.

 

 

Lets not confuses sentience with awareness or intelligence with instinct.  They can identify food, catch it and eat it.  They just dont have an inkling of personal safety.  If they can do something to get to you, they do it.  If that means they have to cut their face apart through a broken windshield to get you or run themselves through to make it 1" closer, they do it.  If you put something in their way, they do whatever they can to push it aside (or push through) to get themselves closer to put their chompers on you.

 

They would have to know that metal was not flesh and bone, or they would be out eating mannequins at the department stores.  TWD makes some statements about Zombies that had not been done in the general culture, but I am not sure if that fits the Romero Zombie.  We look different, act different and smell different plays a role (per TWD).  The devs will have to make the final ruling as to how Zeds process their surroundings and cognate before we can really tell what a Zed would do in a particular situation.