Some thoughts about armor

[Fj45]

 

 

Making armor from tires is a good idea. If anyone has played How to survive by 505 games, you know what I'm talking about.

It's the only example I can think of from another game.

No, using tires is a ridiculous idea, they are heavy, restrict your movement, extremely hot, bulky and would be quite ineffective as zombies could simply pull it off.

Well, it wouldn't be made of just tires, belts would be used to attach it to yourself so it wouldn't be so easy to rip off. Plus wearing it on your arms and legs wouldn't encumber you as much as if u were wearing a full suit of tires.

 

 

Still would heavy, restrictive, hot and bulky. 

[BBRyuLvl3]

Making armor from tires is a good idea. If anyone has played How to survive by 505 games, you know what I'm talking about.

It's the only example I can think of from another game.

No, using tires is a ridiculous idea, they are heavy, restrict your movement, extremely hot, bulky and would be quite ineffective as zombies could simply pull it off.

Well, it wouldn't be made of just tires, belts would be used to attach it to yourself so it wouldn't be so easy to rip off. Plus wearing it on your arms and legs wouldn't encumber you as much as if u were wearing a full suit of tires.

 

Still would heavy, restrictive, hot and bulky. 

Even if it was made to look similar to shin and arm guards?

[Armredhoof]

Umm if you want armor why make it? there's plenty of "armor" already made and available, Football and other sport equipment, Heavy duty work gloves from construction yards and Gardening stores, Chainmail and Kevlar Aprons and gloves from butcher shops, Steel toe boots, just to get started

[ShadowDimentio]

I can't help but feel like people are using massive amounts of posts and barely saying anything at all. Yeah, we get it, some armor is heavy and such, but if the person has already explained that the armor they've described isn't, I don't think that needs to be challenged five times. Alright? Okay.

[BBRyuLvl3]

Umm if you want armor why make it? there's plenty of "armor" already made and available, Football and other sport equipment, Heavy duty work gloves from construction yards and Gardening stores, Chainmail and Kevlar Aprons and gloves from butcher shops, Steel toe boots, just to get started

Those items could be used as armor by themselves but the general idea of making armor gives us more to do in the game. Those items could be used in the construction of some armor. But doesn't the game take place a few weeks after the initial infection? If that's the case some of those items would be difficult to find because other survivors would have already thought of those items for armor.

[Fj45]

Umm if you want armor why make it? there's plenty of "armor" already made and available, Football and other sport equipment, Heavy duty work gloves from construction yards and Gardening stores, Chainmail and Kevlar Aprons and gloves from butcher shops, Steel toe boots, just to get started

 

One of my earlier posts points this out. 

 

Umm if you want armor why make it? there's plenty of "armor" already made and available, Football and other sport equipment, Heavy duty work gloves from construction yards and Gardening stores, Chainmail and Kevlar Aprons and gloves from butcher shops, Steel toe boots, just to get started

Those items could be used as armor by themselves but the general idea of making armor gives us more to do in the game. Those items could be used in the construction of some armor. But doesn't the game take place a few weeks after the initial infection? If that's the case some of those items would be difficult to find because other survivors would have already thought of those items for armor.

 

 

But with so many available types of pre-built armor that is miles ahead in effectiveness, why would you ever bother crafting it?

 

Not really, your average person isn't going to think much about scavenging armor. (except maybe a bullet proof vest but that would be useless against zombies anyway.) 

[BBRyuLvl3]

So you'd rather find armor which adds to the different types of loot you can find than adding more to the crafting element of the game? If that's the case you must not play games like TES Morriwind, Oblivion or Skyrim where you can craft better armor than you can find. I'm just saying more added to crafting would be better than a larger loot pool.

[Armredhoof]

Sorry about that Fj45 I missed that post but in response to bbryulvl3 these things are supposed to be hard to find at the point we start in the game, as FJ45 pointed out it does take a very skilled professional Craftsman to make armor, the material to make viable Leather armor not only needs to be cleaned properly before tanning , and the ingredients to do that would be even harder to find than the Sports equipment, it needs to be hardened properly or it's just thicker than normal clothes 

[BBRyuLvl3]

Sorry about that Fj45 I missed that post but in response to bbryulvl3 these things are supposed to be hard to find at the point we start in the game, as FJ45 pointed out it does take a very skilled professional Craftsman to make armor, the material to make viable Leather armor not only needs to be cleaned properly before tanning , and the ingredients to do that would be even harder to find than the Sports equipment, it needs to be hardened properly or it's just thicker than normal clothes

I'm well aware that skill is needed to make armor, but I'm not really thinking about traditional armor. Plus wouldn't you be able to find skill books to help with making armor? Maybe even some blueprints to help out as well?

[Fj45]

 

Sorry about that Fj45 I missed that post but in response to bbryulvl3 these things are supposed to be hard to find at the point we start in the game, as FJ45 pointed out it does take a very skilled professional Craftsman to make armor, the material to make viable Leather armor not only needs to be cleaned properly before tanning , and the ingredients to do that would be even harder to find than the Sports equipment, it needs to be hardened properly or it's just thicker than normal clothes

I'm well aware that skill is needed to make armor, but I'm not really thinking about traditional armor. Plus wouldn't you be able to find skill books to help with making armor? Maybe even some blueprints to help out as well?

 

 

Even crafting clothing takes a large degree of skill and know-how. Crafted armor would be either too basic to be useful or extremely complex to make.

 

A book giving detailed instructions on how to craft armor would be extremely difficult to find irl, let alone during the apocalypse. And even if you somehow did manage to find one, reading a book hardly makes you able to do anything. You would also have to source materials and tools to build it.

 

The whole idea is hugely impractical, I am sick of debating, can we please turn this thread into a discussion about pre-built armor?

[BBRyuLvl3]

Might as well. I suppose finding something like riot gear in the police stations, fireman suits at fire stations, a hazmat suit at a check point, and football gear at the schools wouldn't be too bad. I just don't see why we wouldn't have the option to craft some makeshift armor.

[John_234]

This isn't really applicable in this build of the game, but honestly, I think that human raiders are a far worse problem than zombies in a hypothetical zedpocalype.

 

I mean, if you look at every major zombie film made, things go horribly wrong when humans make bad decisions or try to kill each other.

In actual disasters, looting and firefights among survivors are all too common. Not because people are necessarily evil, but because those situations are desperate and some people will attack others to keep themselves and their families alive. I imagine in this sort of scenario, it'd be similar. Which is why I'd probably go with actual modern body armor, primarily.

 

Not only is it lighter than improvised armor (depending on soft / hard), it's also generally stab-resistant and easy to conceal. Plus, you'd find it whenever you found a zombified cop or soldier.

 

As far as zombie-defense armor though, I can't imagine you'd want much more than say, taping down your backpack / loose clothing so it snags less, wearing gloves / gauntlets to protect hands, joint protection and so forth.

[Fj45]

Uh, no it isn't. I'm literally sitting here making chainmail RIGHT NOW and I have no formal training. I stated in my original post exactly how to easily make it, it's very time consuming yes but say that you're holed up in your safe house for reasons then why not?

 

Also I have now read the Zombie Survival Guide and I have to point out the fact that it's labeled not even as fiction but as humor. It made some points here and there, but I specifically and carefully read through the armor page and obviously the author is basing his "facts" off of movies. Firstly he's talking about a full-body suit which I've already mentioned that you don't need and then he goes on about the weight. Here's the thing: if properly made, chainmail will hug the body in such a way that it distributes its weight evenly over your entire body. There's also literally HUNDREDS of different styles and makes when it comes to chainmail, it wasn't just the most common armor for well over a thousand years, even more.

 

Cost is neglegible, yes it will cost you quite a bit to buy a chainmail shirt (or hauberk) but that is mostly based on time taken to make it since quality steel wire isn't quite so expensive.

 

But you still have experience of building it before and I am sure you have read guides online or been shown how to make it.  

Quality is another issue. Ones you build or loot may be fine for display purposes but it could very well fall apart after a looting run or a battle with a zombie.

Free time would be extremely limited during the apocalypse. Between looting, farming, building, helping other survivors, preparing/preserving food, defending your safe houses, resting and crafting, free time would be something you would treasure, not waste on building ineffective armor.

 

I would label TZSG as a more of a mockumentary, while it may be humorous and based on a fictional entity, it does try to be realistic. Generally you can trust the advice. His second book, WWZ even has some amazing geo-political commentary.

 

Even if you some how obtain high quality chain mail, it is loud, heavy (even if it is distributed evenly is is still an extra load) and restricts movement.

 

I do not see how the fact that there are many styles of chain mail matters. 

 

 

Its the apocalypse, cost does not matter! 

[John_234]

I can attest that a majority of his weapons advice is a bit... well, iffy. And the part on vehicles is far scantier than an actual survival guide, which I have three or four of on hand.

 

That aside, if you have chain mail, you're going to use it. If you don't, and you have the resources to make it... well, I guess you could. Maybe when you have a lot of spare time, but from what I do understand it is an incredibly labor intensive process and was generally inferior to plate.

[DirectorPr]

Kevlar vests, sports armor, flak jackets, and etc. should be implemented as it can help lighten/stop the penetration of bullets or weapons wielded by other survivors. Whats up with all this medieval armor? Chain mail would be a time consuming process when you could do something way more useful with the metal like make a homemade weapon or reinforce walls/structures.

[MisterRice]

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

[Connall]

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

What on earth is a duct tape guard? 

[Fj45]

 

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

What on earth is a duct tape guard? 

 

 

Duck tape wrapped around your arm? 

 

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

If it is what I think it is, I would have to say that duck tape around your arm would be pretty much useless. Protection from bites would negligible, heat would be a massive issue and mobility would be affected.

[MisterRice]

 

 

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

What on earth is a duct tape guard? 

 

 

Duck tape wrapped around your arm? 

 

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

If it is what I think it is, I would have to say that duck tape around your arm would be pretty much useless. Protection from bites would negligible, heat would be a massive issue and mobility would be affected.

 

 

 

That's Milton when a walker tried to bite him but is unable to because of the duct tape. It could be useless, but it looks like it's doing a decent job at protecting his skin

[Fj45]

 

 

 

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

What on earth is a duct tape guard? 

 

 

Duck tape wrapped around your arm? 

 

Being able to make some sort of duct tape guard around your arms like in season 3 of the walking dead would be cool as well

 

If it is what I think it is, I would have to say that duck tape around your arm would be pretty much useless. Protection from bites would negligible, heat would be a massive issue and mobility would be affected.

 

 

 

That's Milton when a walker tried to bite him but is unable to because of the duct tape. It could be useless, but it looks like it's doing a decent job at protecting his skin

 

 

It would also do a decent job of restricting your movement so much that it would be impossible to fight back.

 

Seriously, that is even worse then what I had in mind. I can't even comprehend how someone would be able to move their arm with the duct tape like that. 

[Armredhoof]

It looks like he just got like 4 or 5 pieces of cloth wrapped around his arm and it's being held in place with the duct tape , a form of makeshift padded armor, it wouldn't last very long and would have to be destroyed to get it off if he was overheating, good for a more fantasy setting than this in my opinion but making padded armor wouldn't be that hard it just would be hot and not wearable for long periods of time 

[Fj45]

It looks like he just got like 4 or 5 pieces of cloth wrapped around his arm and it's being held in place with the duct tape , a form of makeshift padded armor, it wouldn't last very long and would have to be destroyed to get it off if he was overheating, good for a more fantasy setting than this in my opinion but making padded armor wouldn't be that hard it just would be hot and not wearable for long periods of time 

 

Or very road bust.

[John_234]

Well, remember a Brigandine is basically a cloth vest with metal strips sewn into it, and it was the standard civilian body armor for quite a while... I assume something similar wouldn't be horrible for limb protection.

[Fj45]

Well, remember a Brigandine is basically a cloth vest with metal strips sewn into it, and it was the standard civilian body armor for quite a while... I assume something similar wouldn't be horrible for limb protection.

 

Again, mobility, heat, weight. 

 

Plus zombies would probably be able to tear the cloth apart easily.

[Suomiboi]

 

Well, remember a Brigandine is basically a cloth vest with metal strips sewn into it, and it was the standard civilian body armor for quite a while... I assume something similar wouldn't be horrible for limb protection.

 

Again, mobility, heat, weight. 

 

Plus zombies would probably be able to tear the cloth apart easily.

 

Making the same point over and over again doesn't mean that it isn't a viable idea.

 

A leather jacket is hot in the summer, and would definitely guard against a few bites. The fact that an item has drawbacks doesn't mean it shouldn't be introduced to the game. If you think about a regular US military battle outfit it has to be hot like hell but it doesn't stop them from roaming around in deserts. They're not in their t-shirts actually.

 

The point in armor against zombies is that it would defend against 1-3 zombies and a few bites from them. You're not gonna get away with walking through a horde even if you're wearing a plate mail armor. They'll just push you down and pile up until you're crushed or someone makes a hole which to bite through.

 

There's no use in trying to make up a zombie proof armor as in the long run there isn't any. Will the armors suggested provide some resistance against bites, definitely, but why would you build a chainmail that guards you from 1-3 zombies (and not your head, palms or legs btw) rather than have a thick jacket or two that do the same thing. You're gonna beat the shit out of them before they get enough bites anyway, and if not, you're most likely so badly trapped that the chainmail won't save you. If you have five strong men holding you down, no armor is gonna save you.

 

Now armor against weapons and stabbing items is a whole other thing. There is also, as mentioned, already existing riot gear etc. for that. They don't however protect your hands or legs fully and if the force is strong enough (or close enough, with guns) not necessarily even where they are meant to defend. It also needs to be remembered that no armor fully negates the effects of blunt strikes and that every hit at you (wheter it's stabbing shooting, scratching etc.) will sustain blunt damage. You will be bruised or hurt in some other way if you are hit.

 

TL;DR: Armor has drawbacks and benefits. Wether the benefits are against human attacks or zombie bites/scratche is a wholly different thing. Medieval armor isn't feasible in the game due to it's build time vs benefit.