[Suggestion] Clumsy Survivors

[k12314]

 

mmm I'm not sure about the random chance method, people use that alot. I mean having a random chance does stop players from fully understanding how the mechanic works and taking advantage of it, which people tend to do when playing any computer game. (counterstrike bunnyhopping is an example)

so randomness would make the game unpredictable which is both good and bad depending on your point of view, I think players should be able to predict the possibility of a fall relatively accuratly, because thats what people are able to do in the real world.

but randomness or some kind of coin flip type thing would destroy this and players could fluke an impossible situation which I think is just silly.

I mean as long as the falling down threshold is low enough it should make falling down rare enough that it does not inconvenience players too much, but there are many situations where it simply should inconvenience players. (if we ever get a winter map with ICE in it for example, this mechanic would be a perfect way to deal with it)

I like the idea that it might cause players to slow down instead but it's important to remember, players can't see why they might be moving more slowly, and while they will eventually figure out why they are moving more slowly, they won't appreciate having their speed capped if they are in a hurry. (hence the falling down mechanic, lets them see why they should move slower)

but its another possible take on the situation.

I think randomness would definitly make it a "hate" mechanic. Just like you said, people should know why they fell. Latest point beeing after they fell. Just like "god damn it why did i break my ne...oh there's a bloody corpse on top of the staircase i tripped over while backing there...damn it why didn't i listen to the guy brabbeling about not fighting on stairs?" .

No seriously i guess with the threshold there only should be clear falls. Like sprinting across wet grass in the rain, tripping over a corpse in the high grass. Thats something pretty logical. With slippery ground, bad vision because of heavy rain an a not so good placed corpse in the tall grass thats hard to see aswell.

On the side of the "taking it out of control of the player" part...a "push f to fall" function would be pretty useless i guess. Falls are out of control, otherwise you wouldn't fall.

Maybe if this would really work, like falling down the stairs could be a neat thing for dead bodies to implement. Cause a dead bodie mostly handles stairs at what it is. A 45 degree slope with bumps to gain momentum. So a zombie slain or pushed on some stairs would fall down, inflicting damage and possibility to fall for anyone downstairs. To teach you or the zombies to NOT FIGHT ON STAIRS DAMNIT!

 

 

I like this idea. No random falling over, it should be object/environment based. Like, tripping over corpses, getting your feet tangled in tall grass, sprinting through a house and banging into furniture, etc. It'd give you some good incentive asides from disease to clear out corpses and maybe break down furniture for useful supplies instead. This seems like a good idea.

[Fj45]

 

 

mmm I'm not sure about the random chance method, people use that alot. I mean having a random chance does stop players from fully understanding how the mechanic works and taking advantage of it, which people tend to do when playing any computer game. (counterstrike bunnyhopping is an example)

so randomness would make the game unpredictable which is both good and bad depending on your point of view, I think players should be able to predict the possibility of a fall relatively accuratly, because thats what people are able to do in the real world.

but randomness or some kind of coin flip type thing would destroy this and players could fluke an impossible situation which I think is just silly.

I mean as long as the falling down threshold is low enough it should make falling down rare enough that it does not inconvenience players too much, but there are many situations where it simply should inconvenience players. (if we ever get a winter map with ICE in it for example, this mechanic would be a perfect way to deal with it)

I like the idea that it might cause players to slow down instead but it's important to remember, players can't see why they might be moving more slowly, and while they will eventually figure out why they are moving more slowly, they won't appreciate having their speed capped if they are in a hurry. (hence the falling down mechanic, lets them see why they should move slower)

but its another possible take on the situation.

I think randomness would definitly make it a "hate" mechanic. Just like you said, people should know why they fell. Latest point beeing after they fell. Just like "god damn it why did i break my ne...oh there's a bloody corpse on top of the staircase i tripped over while backing there...damn it why didn't i listen to the guy brabbeling about not fighting on stairs?" .

No seriously i guess with the threshold there only should be clear falls. Like sprinting across wet grass in the rain, tripping over a corpse in the high grass. Thats something pretty logical. With slippery ground, bad vision because of heavy rain an a not so good placed corpse in the tall grass thats hard to see aswell.

On the side of the "taking it out of control of the player" part...a "push f to fall" function would be pretty useless i guess. Falls are out of control, otherwise you wouldn't fall.

Maybe if this would really work, like falling down the stairs could be a neat thing for dead bodies to implement. Cause a dead bodie mostly handles stairs at what it is. A 45 degree slope with bumps to gain momentum. So a zombie slain or pushed on some stairs would fall down, inflicting damage and possibility to fall for anyone downstairs. To teach you or the zombies to NOT FIGHT ON STAIRS DAMNIT!

 

 

I like this idea. No random falling over, it should be object/environment based. Like, tripping over corpses, getting your feet tangled in tall grass, sprinting through a house and banging into furniture, etc. It'd give you some good incentive asides from disease to clear out corpses and maybe break down furniture for useful supplies instead. This seems like a good idea.

 

 

Yeah, this would probably be the best way to do it. 

[John_234]

Though, personally I think you should have a reduced chance of tripping in sneak mode, assuming you're not sprinting.

[Fj45]

Though, personally I think you should have a reduced chance of tripping in sneak mode, assuming you're not sprinting.

 

Nah, zero chance while in sneak mode would be better.

[Rathlord]

I'm pretty iffy about this one. This was mentioned on the old forums, along with some other stuff (player cursor shaking when player is panicked) that the devs came down pretty hard on (Mash if I remember correctly, but it's been almost 2 years).

 

The thing is, anything that you take "out of the player's control" is essentially a bad player mechanic. That's not to say that it's impossible to do well, or that it's never done well, even, just that in game design it's something that should and generally is avoided by game developers that understand game theory/concepts.

 

There is, also, a kind of trade-off that you have to envision between the type of game and the amount of 'out of player control' events that can happen. In a game with quicksaving/loading that's very lenient on death penalties you can pull this off for comedic value (and some legitimate gameplay value- I won't argue that it doesn't have any).

 

However, in a game with permadeath it becomes much more serious of an issue. If you died because you fell over a corpse that you just didn't see (which could be largely in part due to the nature of the game and it's viewpoint, not because the corpse was somewhere a real human wouldn't have seen it) you're going to be bloody pissed.

 

So, I can see this being done plausibly if implemented very carefully, but I'm not sure it's something I would attempt were this my game. My suggestion, if any:

 

*A very slight chance for falling when you have a multitude of moodles adding to the problem (tired, nervous, panicked for example, and only when they're extreme) when coupled with a tough environment (wet grass, mud, puddles), negligence on the player's part (running through said environment, strafing backwards), and a specific environmental variable (a trip hazard such as a log, corpse, or curb).

[TinnedEpic]

I personally wouldn't like this at all. Cinematic point of view yes it builds tension and makes the view more exciting, in a game it would just be plain annoying. If there was a specific avoidable system in which players could avoid tripping then maybe. But otherwise it is a bad game mechanic as rath has said.

 

clumsiness in general is very precarious for games. It's rated on par with, and is often mistaken for, glitch/badly made controls.

[John_234]

So it's generally agreed that if implemented at all, clumsiness should only really come into play when everything is going wrong anyway?

[Fj45]

So it's generally agreed that if implemented at all, clumsiness should only really come into play when everything is going wrong anyway?

 

Think so.

[k12314]

So it's generally agreed that if implemented at all, clumsiness should only really come into play when everything is going wrong anyway?

 

More or less a "watch where the fuck you're going" kinda thing. Tripping over corpses and furniture when running would make sense, and even then it wouldn't be too common. We're not talking trying to run through dead bodies and tripping over them all, more like maybe one or two of them at most.

[John_234]

 

So it's generally agreed that if implemented at all, clumsiness should only really come into play when everything is going wrong anyway?

 

More or less a "watch where the fuck you're going" kinda thing. Tripping over corpses and furniture when running would make sense, and even then it wouldn't be too common. We're not talking trying to run through dead bodies and tripping over them all, more like maybe one or two of them at most.

 

Like Rathlord pointed out though, that means that the camera and visibility must be perfect so the gamer doesn't get unnecessarily frustrated.

[Fenrix]

I'm pretty iffy about this one. This was mentioned on the old forums, along with some other stuff (player cursor shaking when player is panicked) that the devs came down pretty hard on (Mash if I remember correctly, but it's been almost 2 years).

 

The thing is, anything that you take "out of the player's control" is essentially a bad player mechanic. That's not to say that it's impossible to do well, or that it's never done well, even, just that in game design it's something that should and generally is avoided by game developers that understand game theory/concepts.

 

There is, also, a kind of trade-off that you have to envision between the type of game and the amount of 'out of player control' events that can happen. In a game with quicksaving/loading that's very lenient on death penalties you can pull this off for comedic value (and some legitimate gameplay value- I won't argue that it doesn't have any).

 

However, in a game with permadeath it becomes much more serious of an issue. If you died because you fell over a corpse that you just didn't see (which could be largely in part due to the nature of the game and it's viewpoint, not because the corpse was somewhere a real human wouldn't have seen it) you're going to be bloody pissed.

 

So, I can see this being done plausibly if implemented very carefully, but I'm not sure it's something I would attempt were this my game. My suggestion, if any:

 

*A very slight chance for falling when you have a multitude of moodles adding to the problem (tired, nervous, panicked for example, and only when they're extreme) when coupled with a tough environment (wet grass, mud, puddles), negligence on the player's part (running through said environment, strafing backwards), and a specific environmental variable (a trip hazard such as a log, corpse, or curb).

 

Yeah that was prettymuch the idea, all the various things would stack. they of course go away as your moodles do and as you move into better safer terrain like roads and stuff.

the idea being you would have to have a whole bunch of problems stacking their effects on top of eachother before you would have a chance of falling down.

 

and it kind of adds to the control the player has if you do things like reducing their likelyhood of falling when they do specific things like sneak or even just walking instead of running.

eventually when we get shoes and stuff, appropriate shoes make you much safer. that kind of thing.

 

it does take away a little control from the player but adds functionality to the game at the same time as well as providing a system to allow certain moodles and environmental hazards to effect the player.

examples:

tiredness = more likely to stumble in real life

ice,snow,mud = more likely to fall

 

if done carefully falling would be quite rare and also avoidable. which is where players find they are much more in control of the player than they might be if there was no way of reducing the possibility of falling.

 

but yeah. I obviously think it would work.

[Connall]

To be fair, Rathlord does have a point. When we trip over something are running somewhere and slip, the amount of times I recover is always vastly higher than the amount of times I fall. And really how many of us fall over on a regular basis? I get Zombie apocalypse and all different situations, but even then you should be like really down in the dumps before you start slipping and falling on your ass.

 

The more I have thought about it, the more disdain I have for the idea, mainly just for unneeded frustration and (depending on how it was implemented) lack of player control over the event. It could cause players to be overly cautious walking everywhere etc. Which is a bit dull.

[Walther]

To be fair, Rathlord does have a point. When we trip over something are running somewhere and slip, the amount of times I recover is always vastly higher than the amount of times I fall. And really how many of us fall over on a regular basis? I get Zombie apocalypse and all different situations, but even then you should be like really down in the dumps before you start slipping and falling on your ass.

 

The more I have thought about it, the more disdain I have for the idea, mainly just for unneeded frustration and (depending on how it was implemented) lack of player control over the event. It could cause players to be overly cautious walking everywhere etc. Which is a bit dull.

 

yeah I also see it like that, I almost never trip and out of that I almost never fall. this should maybe only be a thing for drunks, overcumbered chars or chars that have the unlucky trait or a "bad motoric skills" (no word came to my mind..)

 

i also think that tripping is a nice idea, it would bug me a lot though, the possibility to trip all the time

[Connall]

 

To be fair, Rathlord does have a point. When we trip over something are running somewhere and slip, the amount of times I recover is always vastly higher than the amount of times I fall. And really how many of us fall over on a regular basis? I get Zombie apocalypse and all different situations, but even then you should be like really down in the dumps before you start slipping and falling on your ass.

 

The more I have thought about it, the more disdain I have for the idea, mainly just for unneeded frustration and (depending on how it was implemented) lack of player control over the event. It could cause players to be overly cautious walking everywhere etc. Which is a bit dull.

 

yeah I also see it like that, I almost never trip and out of that I almost never fall. this should maybe only be a thing for drunks, overcumbered chars or chars that have the unlucky trait or a "bad motoric skills" (no word came to my mind..)

 

i also think that tripping is a nice idea, it would bug me a lot though, the possibility to trip all the time

 

 

If tripping was left to the roll of the dice or probability I would be pretty pissed. That sounds good though, when drunk you can stumble and such or if you have degraded motor skills it could also play a factor.

[GodWaffle]

This should also have an effect if you fall from a high place.. I can imagine that if I fell from a window I don't think I'd land standing up, I'd fall over (and probably break my legs), but at the very least you should faceplant and have to get back up, if not then being able to crawl would be cool.  Same applies for zombies, all that fall from height should fall over (and die if they land on their head)

Very good idea though, would love this!