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Who here thinks that the protection from clothing is very unrealstic?


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Who else here agrees that the clothing protection should be buffed?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Should they be buffed?

    • They should be Buffed
      11
    • They're okay as of now
      10


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As the title sais, who here besides me thinks the clothing protection in project zomboid is VERY unrealistic? I mean I know it's a game and a game means usually it's unrealistic, but considering pz strives to get a almost realistic zombie apoc manner then I think it's only fair that they should ramp up the clothing protection. I mean a zombie can bite through a leather jacket? I've watched a test where different people try ripping off a leather jacket or just a normal jacket with their teeth, it didn't rip, considering that the lore in pz didn't say that zombies will get a stronger and sharper teeth when they turned I think it's just realistic enough that even a shirt can protect you from a bite. Let's say a shirt doesn't protect you whatsover, I think it should be at 40% protection. I mean it's very unrealistic.

 

Who else here agrees that the clothing protection should be buffed?

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I'd wait to see how combat shakes out in the end first. Once that gets a bit more of a final sense to it, I'd imagine any armour/protection adjustments would stem from combat balancing.

 

For now, I just imagine that zombies are going to bite and tear more effectively than live humans because they feel no pain and have no concern for self-preservation. They wouldn't mind ripping a few teeth out if it meant getting a chunk of the good stuff.

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2 hours ago, trombonaught said:

I'd wait to see how combat shakes out in the end first. Once that gets a bit more of a final sense to it, I'd imagine any armour/protection adjustments would stem from combat balancing.

 

For now, I just imagine that zombies are going to bite and tear more effectively than live humans because they feel no pain and have no concern for self-preservation. They wouldn't mind ripping a few teeth out if it meant getting a chunk of the good stuff.

Well I mean yeah, they are mindless and don't care about what they're doing thus being careless about their teeth. Though that doesn't mean that their teeth are no different from us, they're literally biting off multiple layers of clothing and yet they can still pierce through it like it was paper. 

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has a little bit of sense, but allowing the player to have an easily accessible bite-proof armor would make the game easier, I think if they implemented some way of making a metal armor it would make sense, but it would be heavy

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Teeth are harder than steel, and a splintered tooth is basically a dagger. Yeah, they should go through leather.

 

I don't think the protection values are out of whack, but I do think that Tailoring is too weak at lower levels.

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2 hours ago, Zork said:

Teeth are harder than steel, and a splintered tooth is basically a dagger. Yeah, they should go through leather.

 

I don't think the protection values are out of whack, but I do think that Tailoring is too weak at lower levels.

And also takes too long to level up in vanilla. Well, I play with thin skinned so I wouldn't know how to repair my gear. I always try not to get hit.

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Usually when you think of Z's they always have a bit more strength than human beings due to the fact that they are dead and their muscle is supposed to be dead as well, why wouldn't they have more strength at the level. of the jaw when it is their objective in their existence.

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If the leather isn't particularly thin, yeah it probably would protect you from part of a bite. You may not get the "cut" part of the damage so much, but the crushing force would still be nasty if they got a good bite down. So still do damage, but less a chance for saliva/infection and bleeding, but a nasty subdermal bruise.

 

It also depends on how intelligent you think the zombies are. Do they know that the jacket is a barrier and will protect you, making a bite more difficult? I'd say no way because animals don't and I'd say most animals are far more intelligent than the zombies. So this means that they wouldn't know to keep their mouths open for longer until they get a real good position and then to clamp down vs just getting a mouth full of loose clothing/leather and then biting down and maybe not even hitting you.

 

Loose thick clothing would probably provide some protection but also make you easier to grab.

 

 

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This is why all clothing has various levels of bite and scratch protection. Its a way to make a code-able equivalent for a "real" bite on various types of material. The hole/rip mechanic is a similar equivalent of having severely damaged clothing in an area thus negating any protection. And as Weighland above notes, its also about gameplay balance. 

 

Clothing protection should not be buffed. The more you buff things to protect the player, the less risk/reward in the game, and the less intense and fun it is to play.

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My main gripe is that if I'm wearing 4 layers of clothes: tank-top, t-shirt, sweatshirt and a leather jacket, when I get a bite or laceration or scratch or what have you, only the TOP layer gets a hole in it. How? If none of the other layers got damaged, how on earth did my skin get damaged LOL.

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3 hours ago, orikamii said:

My main gripe is that if I'm wearing 4 layers of clothes: tank-top, t-shirt, sweatshirt and a leather jacket, when I get a bite or laceration or scratch or what have you, only the TOP layer gets a hole in it. How? If none of the other layers got damaged, how on earth did my skin get damaged LOL.

Not a bad point :geek:

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2 hours ago, trombonaught said:

Not a bad point :geek:

 

5 hours ago, orikamii said:

My main gripe is that if I'm wearing 4 layers of clothes: tank-top, t-shirt, sweatshirt and a leather jacket, when I get a bite or laceration or scratch or what have you, only the TOP layer gets a hole in it. How? If none of the other layers got damaged, how on earth did my skin get damaged LOL.

Tbh what they can do is like make multiplier maths, so whenever a player has several clothing its more effective, for ex:

A player is wearing only a tshirt(1.1x) = 1x protection

then a player is wearing a tshirt(1.1) then a tanktop(1.05) = 1.155
then a player wearing a tshirt(1.1) tanktop(1.05) Leather Jacket(1.3) = 1.5x protection

 

I think that's how base protection should be calculated and not just adds for each layer like as of now 

+5 + 10 +20 that kind of thing, multiplying sounds more like a better idea imo.

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PANCKAES! 

No wait? 

Well game balance come first. And with the added bulletproof west and helmets (not to talk about military boots and leather gloves)

it is to easy to protect yourself. Ones finding the best items in the game that is.

 

And turning off Z infection. GASP!

BURN THE WITCH! 

 

Since that system is even more broken then being able to flat out deny a attack from a Z.

You get a tiny scratch your a Z. No real fight to stay alive your just cursed to die. You can get scratched hell and back and still survive. But one little scratch? BOOM DEAD.

 

No medical skills or anything matters. You just die from a stupid scratch. A bite is just a faster way to know your smoked. 

 

Really makes the game unforgivingly cruel. Random chance to DIE! The only skill is to avoid taking damage in the first place. Since that is how the game is meant to be played? Get hit and give up :c  No coming back. It is the stories of being hurt and trying to survive that is interesting to talk about. But the game work agents it by turning you into a Z so often that your afraid of any little scratch. Even now your eyes and stuff are not being protected from all the blood flying around and hitting you. :rolleyes:

 

The silliest of scratch can be more deadly then actually messing up and deserving to die.  More fun to almost die to a bite wound then just giving up ones hearing the bite sound. Having to find antibiotics and try and recover for a few days. Running in pain bleeding and fighting to staying alive. Starting to wonder if this is the end or not.

 

I like the point of being infected. But it should be due to messing up badly. And even if you are bitten be able to almost turn but not quite. You can even make it fun by waking up screaming in fear or pain. So Z's are made to come and get you!  Meaning that in a state of extreme pain and no way to defend yourself they come for you! And you better be ready for that reality to occur.  

 

 

I rather think time and other stuff should be reworked before making leather jackets zombie proof. Or less zombie proof. They are fine as is. Really a nice balance to weight and heat for protection. 

 

How infection works might be a better thing to focus on then trying to overcome it by just denying the problems of Z virus. At least making the bites the true danger and not scratches. To scared to take damage. To willing to abuse clothes to avoid random chance of death. :/ Since that is what it is. Random death. 

 

I rather not know if treating a bite wound will be worth it or not. I rather basically stay in bed hoping to not turn into a Z. Finding antibiotic and being to weak to defend myself. Foraging for medicine. Going to sleep not knowing if I will wake up.

 

Just messing up and then fighting for ones life to make up for the mistake. That should be the loop not just random deaths. 

 

Like really just talking about the "time" system should be more important if you ask me.

 

I'm negative to the super fast one the game normally put people into playing. It makes moodlets a busy work rather then survival. 

 

1hour inside of the game takes what? 2.5min in real life to pass? This is the standard Zomboid time scale. Is that a good default setting?

1h = 24h in game.

 

That brakes all logic compared to leather being ruined by a Z's attack. They are just not truly tick leader clothes. They are about looks and not tick leather. This kind of leather you can punch hole in with a scissors if need be. They are that thin of a material. 

Some bicycle gang might actually have some leather jackets worth a dam when it comes to Zombie protection. Not some good looking long jacket.

 

2h=24h at least works out to  5min = 1h. That feels much better. And works well in My Summer Car and The Long Dark.

In The Long Dark I even think that is a bit to fast since you barely can cover any ground before being to cold to walk anywhere.

But the game is so much more balanced around time so it makes the game so much easier turning it from a survivor game into a cake walk changing the settings. But still make little to no sense.

 

ProjectZomboid share time scale with GTA games btw. XD

All time do in GTA is change the sky and turns on street lights and such. Not tiredness or anything. It just is visual change in game.


The time scale is just insane in most games. You waste so much time awake just walking or driving to places. Find it very stressful having to manage time in PZ and games that feel like The Sims.

 

In Sims the time is 24h=24min. That is bonkers. It is like working a real job vs being truly a fun game. You avoid doing stuff take to much time for little gain. Agen making it into more work then true fun.

 

I always mod time in Sims. Gives time to actually do stuff that is fun. Not just send them away to work at peak efficiency simulator. Never socializing or having time for hobbies. Around 3min to 10min = 1h in game.

 

Same with PZ. I give at least myself 2x the time of day.  3x or 4x feels almost broken how much you can do in a day. Strait up x6 is realistic mode. Going out hunting Zombies just for fun. As time move so slowly. You build a real safe house within your first week if any good at the game. Witch is what you realistically would be able to with all that time of a work week put into it.

 

But it is first when playing at this kind of speeds you hit the problem of not knowing what to do. Your not distracted by the need systems of constant sleep and eating. And reading skill books takes literally so long that you can alt tab out of the game and let it run in the background. 

Turning them pages like a mad lad! XD

 

But agen

 

PANCKAES! 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Nice points Turbo50.
I too feel like current mechanic of infection is problematic. I'm a hardcore Romero zombie fan and understand where the 100% chance to get infected by being bitten comes from, and thats one thing that initially made this game so temptating for me. Nowadays being bitten just means I quit the game and start a new character in a new game. There is no point at all to play after infection because anything you do doesn't matter at all that point forward.

Project Zomboid is at its strongest when you are injured and desperately trying to survive, and that works when you've been scratched or have a laceration because then the death isn't certain. Any serious injury in game is like this and its great! Most intensive moments in PZ have come from a simple mistake leading to rush to try and save myself from bleeding dry. It just the bite and certain infection that brings the system down for me from gameplay perspective even though I'm a fan of it from lore point of view.

Maybe a bite shouldn't be a 100% death sentence. Give it high a enough propability to kill you. Being survivable situation but having grave consequences to your characters ability to function due to pain and all the bacteria in the system would be an intensive experience you would actually like to play and try to survive through.

To the timescale issue I'd say just switch to sandbox and set it to 6 hours = 24 hours and you're golden.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/31/2021 at 5:19 PM, Zork said:

Teeth are harder than steel, and a splintered tooth is basically a dagger. Yeah, they should go through leather.

 

I don't think the protection values are out of whack, but I do think that Tailoring is too weak at lower levels.

Please go bite a piece of steel and then make that statement again xD

The enamel in teeth has a hardness scale identical or higher as they say, however your teeth are coated in the stuff. not made of it entirely . still it's a balance issue. making a leather jacket zombie proof would make things to easy. 

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