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Mental Health Discussion Thread


Rathlord

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Heya guys,

 

I'm making this thread to discuss the future of mental health in PZ. Lemmy mentioned at one point that he wanted this in the game in some form or another, and so I wanted to take this space to post my thoughts on it and hear everyone elses'.

 

So without further ado:

 

Sanity

 

Introduces a sanity moodle to the game. There is no positive version of the sanity moodle, just a negative:

 

Imbalanced: You are shaken by the current events and have been physically affected by them.

  • You get a slight negative modifier to your interactions with NPC's
  • You may occasionally hear small sounds that don't exist

Unstable: You have been severely affected by the apocalypse, and it shows.

  • You have a negative modifier to interactions with NPC's
  • You often hear sounds that don't exist
  • You have trouble sleeping

Insane: Your mental health is fully compromised.

  • You have a large negative modifier to interactions with NPC's
  • You often hear sounds that don't exist
  • You have trouble sleeping
  • You occasionally see things that aren't there, including NPC's, loot, and zombies. These images are exactly like their real counterparts, but can have no effect on the player and disappear after a time.
  • You talk to yourself sometimes, causing a small amount of sound
  • You have a chance to be much more or much less susceptible to the panic moodle
  • For short periods of time you won't see moodles that are affecting you

With the introduction of insanity comes two new traits in the beginning of the game:

 

Strong Willed: Much more likely to stay sane, and stops at "Unstable," not able to become completely insane.

Unstable: Much more susceptible to insanity

 

And finally, things that effect your sanity:

 

Antidepressants: Help stave off insanity, but become addicting

Alcohol: Can temporarily stave off insanity, but long term increases it if addicted

Corpses: Nearby corpses negatively influence sanity (implemented after cleaning up corpses)

Home: Staying in the same house more than once increases sanity

Cigarettes: Temporarily helps increase sanity

Losing a Companion: Losing a companion severely effects sanity

Becoming Injured: Being injured or sick decreases sanity

 

Nota Bene, the insanity effects are quite strong and should take a large amount of time to build up, particularly to the final stage. It should only become a problem if you neglect it or if you take the unstable trait.

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One of the things I enjoy most about games is the balancing and crafting of the in-game systems, so thanks Centurion. My dream job would be in development doing storyline or game balancing- likely that will never happen though ;D In the mean time, I do what I can to help the games I love.

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One of the things I enjoy most about games is the balancing and crafting of the in-game systems, so thanks Centurion. My dream job would be in development doing storyline or game balancing- likely that will never happen though ;D In the mean time, I do what I can to help the games I love.

 

Indie gaming is cool like that. Very community orientated and fun to get into. I think I'd always prefer to work and help with said developers rather than the larger studios, since the AAA devs are more focused on deadlines and producing cinema styled games. Less innovation and all. 

Project Zomboid is a very worthy cause.  (tophat)

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Thanks I like this and I'm not sure if cannibalism is an explicit, no, I haven't seen it in the no section of the 'think about before suggesting' but I would support that as potentially being part of insanity. Maybe it can be a separate trait altogether? It could be like a dynamic trait gained from insanity I mean but just tossing it out there.

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Thanks I like this and I'm not sure if cannibalism is an explicit, no, I haven't seen it in the no section of the 'think about before suggesting' but I would support that as potentially being part of insanity. Maybe it can be a separate trait altogether? It could be like a dynamic trait gained from insanity I mean but just tossing it out there.

 

I think if cannibalism were included it would likely be a standalone choice and not the result of a trait or moodle, although it could add to insanity. I think that probably it won't be included just from past experience with similar suggestions, but that's just my opinion.

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I think we need to draw a line between depression and insanity. Insanity is the most obvious negative result of mental health, however, depression is a very big part of things. The 'depressed' moodle already exists in the game, but it needs impact. I think it would be a contributor to insanity, of course, much the way an injury is complicit to pain, but it should have it's own impact.

 

To my knowledge, something like

  • Increased / decreased appetite
  • Slower healing (depression stresses the body)
  • Lower awareness
  • Lower effectiveness of entertainment
  • Lower strength

We may also want to consider the impact of loneliness which is distinct from sadness. I believe I had put the suggestion up on the other forum that there ought to be two 'free' traits during character creation for "loner" or "socialite" whereby you either got annoyed by constantly having other people around, or by not having them around. They both have pros and cons, but some people are solitary and some are absolutely not (whereas others sit in the middle ground and can be saved or aggrieved by either issue).

 

Mental health isn't a black or white issue touching on sanity, and with what I've seen of PZ so far, even as a game mechanic it needs more depth than that. I'm not suggesting anything severely complex, but limiting things to Amnesia-like degrees of crazy doesn't make much sense.

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I like how deliciously evil this sounds.

 

I think there should definitely be traits and events / actions that could compensate for this.

 

In additions to the ones you suggested, I think there could be a people person / socially awkward trait for example (similar to the agoraphobic / claustrophobic thing) that greatly affects how much human interaction is required / helps to stave off mental issues.

 

There could also be a +/- trait that affects how your sanity level changes your NPC interactions. Some people actually become more helpful and sociable under pressure or in difficult situations. Others, the opposite.

 

I think numerous events should have a (small) positive effect on your sanity too, such as writing diaries, making doodles, building and crafting things (while at 0 panic), tending for crops, exercising (getting exhausted without being near zombies), reading books and magazines, talking to (and just being with) other people etc.

 

I would also like to have at least one positive level of this moodle, with small beneficial effects (e.g. slightly reduced hunger and thirst, improved healing, less likely to panic). It would be great if this was people's default mental state, but that is often not the case, even without zombies around :/

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Positive moodles, in order from least to greatest:

 

Peaceful < Content < Excited (for having fun doing things and/or being not depressed.)

 

Together / Zen (for being exceptionally sane? I'm not sure how that works, but I guess if you could meditate or if you just had a good streak going without people dying or without seeing zombies you'd be feeling rather awesome. Still kind of questionable. ) 

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The main reason I avoided a positive trait is twofold:

 

1) Screen clutter. It's always better to have less moodles up

2) Because there really isn't a 'positive' for being sane in real life. You're just sane.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with a positive sanity moodle, but neither do I feel it's necessary.

 

On the other hand, I do very much feel that a loner/social trait would be fantastic. Either case would increase you're sanity and happiness whilst in the appropriate circumstances.

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Just add mental health and not mental or developmental disabilities. On the other hand, playing a character who can see ghost images because they are crazy as a bat, would be kind of fun.

 

I think we will probably avoid pre-apocalypse disabilities just for the sake of decency. Also, an insane character will see "ghost" images, but they won't be ghostly. They'll look just like the real thing- there's no experience added if the player doesn't believe in them, too.

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I remember me and my friend suggesting some of this stuff a while back, like the Strong Willed and Unstable traits. That makes me feel all smart. Anyways...

 

I also think Insanity should have an effect on not only yourself, but the mood and morale of others around you. Say you're with some NPCs and they're good friends with you, so when you go insane they keep you around to care for you. Then they all start to worry, get depressed or frustrated over your mad ramblings, and try to keep you inside, etc.

 

And as for staying in the same house too long driving you insane, that should only be if you just sit around for months on end, and should be a rather slow process, if it's ever in the game at all. I don't really see someone going insane living in a house unless they lock themselves in, blackout all the windows, completely board up all the doors and windows, and stay huddled in the same dark corner for months on end, living off toilet water and peanut butter.

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And as for staying in the same house too long driving you insane, that should only be if you just sit around for months on end, and should be a rather slow process, if it's ever in the game at all. I don't really see someone going insane living in a house unless they lock themselves in, blackout all the windows, completely board up all the doors and windows, and stay huddled in the same dark corner for months on end, living off toilet water and peanut butter.

 

The idea I posted was that staying in the same house would increase sanity, since it's "home."

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This is sounding great, but I think that some thought should be put to this because it is somewhat bordering existing moodles such as anxiety, depression and a little with anger and boredom. Anxiety for example, if persistant should add to insanity and so should depression and as depression sometimes is a sign of boredom and anger could be the result of insanity, there's quite a bundle of moodles on screen... Not to throw down the idea, just something to think about (tophat).

 

I also don't fully agree that positive sanity (or maybe should be some kind of happiness... propably already somewhat thought of idea...?) would be unnecessary, but it should be from excessive amounts of happy stuff similar to what GSC suggested:


I think numerous events should have a (small) positive effect on your sanity too, such as writing diaries, making doodles, building and crafting things (while at 0 panic), tending for crops, exercising (getting exhausted without being near zombies), reading books and magazines, talking to (and just being with) other people etc.

Also things like not seeing/killing much zombies (unless you're a gunnut, but then again you're pretty much insane anyway...) etc. and all of these should also ofcourse contribute against insanity. Coz' I think it shouldn't be impossible to have a brief period of happiness even if a second later your brain is being munched away. At least you died happy.

 

 

About panicking: would you people think it's too much if a sudden attack on you could have the possibility to put you in some sort of shock for a second or a half so that you'd be slower in your actions such as reloading or running away. Sort of like a "I really don't know what I should do now... that zombies coming right at me but my legs won't move..." and why not have the extreme panic altogether affect reloading time and small things like that as you'd propably be shaking as you put those shells in the shotgun. Aaand the strong willed etc. would affect this too.

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But see happiness is not the same as sanity, and making being happy an opposite effect is not logical and increases screen clutter (which is the very reason you were arguing against it above XD). Like I said... there is no benefit for being sane other than just... being sane.

 

Anxiety, boredom, and panic should all contribute to insanity (slowly). Overall insanity should be one of the slower moving moodles, not one that pops up and down instantly.

 

 

 



 

About panicking: would you people think it's too much if a sudden attack on you could have the possibility to put you in some sort of shock for a second or a half so that you'd be slower in your actions such as reloading or running away. Sort of like a "I really don't know what I should do now... that zombies coming right at me but my legs won't move..." and why not have the extreme panic altogether affect reloading time and small things like that as you'd propably be shaking as you put those shells in the shotgun. Aaand the strong willed etc. would affect this too.

 

I don't really like this idea because I'm not a fan of taking control away from the player like this. I think that you, as a player, should be panicking if a zombie leaps at you around the corner and that should affect your response time and/or cause you to fumble, rather than something forced in the game.

 

But that's just my opinion, and CaptainBinky actually posted something similar to your idea in the old forum once in response to having a shaky cursor when scared (which he did not agree with): http://theindiestone.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=12754&p=176371&hilit=cursor+shake#p176371

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Lol... insanity brings about ghost zombies that aren't really there and just fade out when you swing at them. lol :)

 

EDIT: New class... Asylum Escapee ;) Immune to fear... perma insanity that only gets worse :)

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About panicking: would you people think it's too much if a sudden attack on you could have the possibility to put you in some sort of shock for a second or a half so that you'd be slower in your actions such as reloading or running away. Sort of like a "I really don't know what I should do now... that zombies coming right at me but my legs won't move..." and why not have the extreme panic altogether affect reloading time and small things like that as you'd propably be shaking as you put those shells in the shotgun. Aaand the strong willed etc. would affect this too.

Don't freeze me in place, I already get heart attacks and fumble the keys when a bathroom zombie (or 3) tumbles out on me. :mad:

 

Panic already does affect reloading and accuracy quite heavily. Have you tried reloading the shotgun when the panic moodle is red? It's like 1 shell in 4-5 seconds (real time, not game time). I usually take beta blockers right before I start shooting, but the panic sets in even so, if only temporarily. I have to walk away from the horde chasing me saying "lalala there's nothing there" so that the pills can take effect and I can reload.

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