Player Respawn and why

[Furizu]

I know player respawn is on the no list. I know there are a lot of people and the developers against it also. I know the reason why.

This game is a realism simulator, you don't respawn if you die in real life, right?

 

I like to run multiplayer servers with friends, and losing a character makes people stop playing.

There is an option to allow loot respawn, why isn't there one for player respawn? In real life there isn't some magic elf restocking store shelves for me to find new things in abandoned places. Either there should also be an option for player respawn, or the loot respawn option should be removed.

There is an option to allow Zombie respawn, why isn't there one for player respawn? Given if zombies were real, when you kill them, more shouldn't materialize out of thin air. Yes there may be zombies wandering from other parts of town or outside of town, but that is not how it is handled. They are literally respawned. If zombies were added to the map borders every now and then sure, but that's not how it works.

 

I love 99% of this game, it's amazing you guys! I just can't play without a player respawn mechanic. Having the option, much like there are already unrealistic options, won't take anything away from the game or from the people who like the way it works. It will only allow more people to enjoy it.

 

Please, just an option that starts disabled.

[trombonaught]

I like this in that I think the small party co-op needs something. 

 

Thematically I don't like respawning for this game (despite the good points above), but without it, the gameplay feels too little like any other game for players to get a sense of what should drive their gameplay. I mean this mostly for people who would casually pick up the game only in multiplayer- they expect "something" to bring the group together around, but it's not about the characters or levelling (casual players die like mad), it's not about the story (there isn't one), it's not about a shared objective (there's little reason to play together- you just get more people eating your food!). They get bored immediately after we figure out "survival" (kind of meaningless with infinite respawn, and not very rewarding with slow grinding that's lost so easily on character death) and I get out-voted as the groups move to other games 😭

 

I think this may be related to the presently absent late game, but I also think there's a "local" (friends-only) mp aspect missing. It might be same-character respawns with some xp loss, it might be an altered end game (eg. "This is the story of how 5 friends died," with the game ending after 5 character deaths with or without same-character respawn), or anything to connect people in grinding up a stable team or trying to keep each other alive for some gamified common interest.

 

This is my ongoing zomboid mini-gripe and with mp dropping in the foreseeable future, I would love to hear any/all suggestions on the topic before I bring my groups back to this and risk losing them again 😅

[BentNose]

A suggestion I tossed in on another thread was the idea of progressive starting stats.

It would go a long way to helping the respawn problem if time passed in game boosted stats to compensate for the later start. Along with a bit of extra gear to make sure the pc is set, this would make respawning much less painful. This could even go further and lead to the creation of survivor classes that aren't available until a certain amount of time has passed.

[BillyBibbit]

On 12/27/2020 at 7:41 PM, Furizu said:

I know player respawn is on the no list. I know there are a lot of people and the developers against it also. I know the reason why.

This game is a realism simulator, you don't respawn if you die in real life, right?

 

I like to run multiplayer servers with friends, and losing a character makes people stop playing.

There is an option to allow loot respawn, why isn't there one for player respawn? In real life there isn't some magic elf restocking store shelves for me to find new things in abandoned places. Either there should also be an option for player respawn, or the loot respawn option should be removed.

There is an option to allow Zombie respawn, why isn't there one for player respawn? Given if zombies were real, when you kill them, more shouldn't materialize out of thin air. Yes there may be zombies wandering from other parts of town or outside of town, but that is not how it is handled. They are literally respawned. If zombies were added to the map borders every now and then sure, but that's not how it works.

 

I love 99% of this game, it's amazing you guys! I just can't play without a player respawn mechanic. Having the option, much like there are already unrealistic options, won't take anything away from the game or from the people who like the way it works. It will only allow more people to enjoy it.

 

Please, just an option that starts disabled.

This is already in. Just click " Create new character " when you die and you'll spawn in the same world, being able to loot your old character and even kill him if he got zombified

[Furizu]

This isn't Re-spawn, this is Spawning. Re-spawn is when your character spawns again, so the same exact character with all of the progress you've made saved. Spawning is when your character is entering the world for the first time.

"Create a new character" just means the friends I'm trying to play with, or myself, are just going to quit and play a different game which is unfortunate.

[TrailerParkThor]

1 hour ago, BillyBibbit said:

This is already in. Just click " Create new character " when you die and you'll spawn in the same world, being able to loot your old character and even kill him if he got zombified

 

I think OP means that people stop playing because they put weeks or months into a character with friends and then that character dies and they don't want to invest a bunch of time into a new character. I have personally seen and felt this firsthand myself so I know where it's coming from.

 

@FurizuI feel like it would be cool to create a sandbox option in which the player or server host can allow player respawn, but I understand why the devs don't want this in their game. I guarantee, almost immediately, the meta of the game would change and 80% of the community would start playing strictly with PlayerRespawn set to True. This would mean the seriousness and challenge of the game would all but be forgotten. Why stay inside your house scared when you can just respawn in your bed if a zombie does get you? Why even risk that scratch? Just suicide and respawn. Don't worry about that enemy faction, just waltz right in with a spoon. It might take a couple tries, but eventually you'll take them all out!

 

It's easy to say that it would make MP more fun, but it would actually make it much much worse IMO. There's no more risk or danger in the server anymore. No more close calls where you barely save your buddy and your team barely gets out alive. No more starvation, no more thirst, no more tiredness. Honestly, why would you even do anything at all anymore?? If you can just die and reset all your moodles while keeping all your skills, why risk anything on a scav run? Wouldn't PZ just become The Sims?? Just sit in your house and read books until you starve to death or die of thirst and then respawn fully awake and well fed to disassemble some radios and do some push ups. This is not the game I want or know. And even if you try to play "right" I'm sure you will get bored of dying and respawning the same character. It will feel cheap! The permadeath keeps the game varied, dynamic, exciting, and replayable.

 

On 12/28/2020 at 10:17 PM, BentNose said:

A suggestion I tossed in on another thread was the idea of progressive starting stats.

It would go a long way to helping the respawn problem if time passed in game boosted stats to compensate for the later start. Along with a bit of extra gear to make sure the pc is set, this would make respawning much less painful. This could even go further and lead to the creation of survivor classes that aren't available until a certain amount of time has passed.

 

This is a really solid solution. Maybe for each month after the apocalypse, survivors start with +1 to all Starting Skills, but -1 to starting Trait Points. This would simulate the fact that they are better at doing things, but not necessarily better off. So if you died after 6 months, your new character could be a Carpenter with Level 9 carpentry, but -4 trait points to start. There could be a cap on the trait points at -10 to match the skill level cap, and so you aren't starting a new character with -25 points after dying 2 years in. I like the idea of extra gear based on Profession and Traits. Maybe our carpenter is also a Gardener and Baseball Player and he has a Spiked Baseball Bat, Level 3 Farming, and a schoolbag full of fresh produce.

 

@BentNoseI'd like you to elaborate more on the Survivor classes... sounds interesting to me but what are your ideas on this? Professions locked behind time would really incentivize players to create a new character after death of the previous one!

[EnigmaGrey]

You can set the server to remove players from the whitelist on death. Obv this only works on whitelisted servers. Server owners constantly asked for this feature at one time then refused to use it because it turns out most people want to ... keep playing the game with their friends.

 

If I misread this, then feel free to correct me, as it's clearly a different interpretation than the others in this thread + I find the whole premise rather bizarre (making us remove optional loot respawn because players have the option of spawning characters makes no logical sense).

[Furizu]

@TrailerParkThor Yeah I get that a lot of people would choose to play with respawn, but it won't change the game for the people who don't. In the end, the more options there are the broader the player base will be. I can't convince any of my friends to play for the sole reason of permadeath. In every other sandbox survival game that I play, just because I can respawn doesn't make me play careless or not feed my character. Yes some people abuse respawn in games like this, but who cares? It doesn't effect how you want to play or how I want to play right? I just want to include more people, and I really want to play this game more than once every few months for an hour until I die.

@EnigmaGrey The reason I brought up loot respawn is because this game is supposed to be a realistic simulator. There should not be loot respawn in that argument because it is not realistic, therefor they are breaking their own idea with that option. I obviously think they should keep the option and add player respawn, even though I personally will never play with loot respawn because that's how I choose to play.

[EnigmaGrey]

False premise. It’s not supposed to be a realistic sim; it’s just more realistic/sim-like than most zombie games out there.

[Zork]

Character respawning seems like an easy thing to implement and worthwhile for MP.

I don't think a lot of public servers will use this, though. It makes zombies essentially no-risk. For private games it's alright.

[TrailerParkThor]

14 hours ago, Furizu said:

Yes some people abuse respawn in games like this, but who cares? It doesn't effect how you want to play or how I want to play right?

Good point, I guess its kinda a fallacy to think that just because they introduce a sandbox option, it will upset the meta of the game. Minecraft has creative mode, but people don't use it for competitive play and speedruns

 

I think if it helps more people play then, why not?

[Masmassu]

Yes i thik we shud have the option to be able to respawn and respawn whit some sort off penalty as an option in the server setings then its up to the play grope to deside and if you dont like it just dont use it!