Limitless Sandbox Trait

[Brandon354]

Now you are comparing apples and pears. One group is saying that they want this in their game, the other half is saying they don't want it in the original game. Considering how easy this is to modify by just doing something as simply as just changing a trait to give you +99; why don't you ask any of the modders to do it for you?

This isn't  comparing apples and pears they don't want it in their game they want it in the original, did you think this was a thread asking for a modder to pick this up? We are asking for it to be implemented into the vanilla game.

 

Honestly why is this something that disgust you so much? It doesn't go against the game design and even if it did it is sandbox which is a do whatever you want mode and as mentioned multiple times about no zombies already being an option... well i will just stop their if you haven't seen my point yet you aren't going to. It wouldn't be in survival so why does it matter to you?

[Kevlar_29]

I'm just gonna butt in here and give my two cents.

Brandon, you keep saying that sandbox is a "do whatever you want mode". But I, and I think a lot people would, disagree with that view. Sandbox isn't a do whatever you want mode, by that logic the devs would implement a my little pony mod as an option to sandbox mode. Sandbox mode is to change the game to accommodate zombie lore that conflicts with the base lore. However, this still fits in with the devs base idea for the the game.

A "limitless" trait that allows all positive traits to be applied has no place in the base game and in no way fits in with the base lore. As a mod, I see absolutely no problem with it, as with a MLP, to each their own. But other than that, it goes completely against the game itself.

As for your "no zombies" argument. That feature is more a testing option, for scoping out map locations and bug testing without having to deal with fighting off zombies at the same time. I can't see the no zombies option being implemented into the final game; and if it is then, your argument will be valid. But until then, its just a bug squashing mode.

[Brandon354]

I'm just gonna butt in here and give my two cents.

Brandon, you keep saying that sandbox is a "do whatever you want mode". But I, and I think a lot people would, disagree with that view. Sandbox isn't a do whatever you want mode, by that logic the devs would implement a my little pony mod as an option to sandbox mode. Sandbox mode is to change the game to accommodate zombie lore that conflicts with the base lore. However, this still fits in with the devs base idea for the the game.

A "limitless" trait that allows all positive traits to be applied has no place in the base game and in no way fits in with the base lore. As a mod, I see absolutely no problem with it, as with a MLP, to each their own. But other than that, it goes completely against the game itself.

As for your "no zombies" argument. That feature is more a testing option, for scoping out map locations and bug testing without having to deal with fighting off zombies at the same time. I can't see the no zombies option being implemented into the final game; and if it is then, your argument will be valid. But until then, its just a bug squashing mode.

It is a do whatever you want mode (anything that is relevant anyway) and many would agree, look at sandbox modes for other games or games classified as sandbox games they are generally free to do as you want (As long as it is relative to the game), and as said before MLP is not relevant to the game, points are. In order for this to go against the game itself you would have to say sandbox goes against the game itself after all if you change the zombies in any way they are no longer "proper zombies" i can have a shooter instead of a survival if I set loot to high, zombies to high, fast, weak, etc.

[Kevlar_29]

I understand where you're coming from, however, how are unlimited trait points "relevant" to the game?

[Brandon354]

I understand where you're coming from, however, how are unlimited trait points "relevant" to the game?

you have traits that require points to use (the positive ones anyway) and I never specified that they had to be unlimited just 1000 or so.

[tomga1]

Ok everyone. Nobody's making any good arguments. I don't think limitless trait points is a great idea but I think the sandbox options could be MASSIVELY expanded and have higher thresholds. That said, another thing that could be added to sandbox would be a number (positive or negative) of trait points to start with, maybe at max 12. A big huge sandbox with variables and a buttload of sliders and checkboxes and stuff. 

It would be awesome.

[EnigmaGrey]

But, can't modding be thought of as the ultimate Sandbox?

Sandbox games still require you to play by their rules -- Kerbal doesn't natively support the ability to alter configure files within the game, for example. MineCraft offers very limited and specific gameplay, despite being a "sandbox." Sim City doesn't just let you decide that High Technology Industry will love your city because you'd just like to see how it goes. It has limits, and in those limits, the game exists.

 

Zombies are the focus on Project Zomboid, and so many people wanted to test their character's merits against their favorite version of lore, perhaps it makes more sense to circumvent it than the character system itself?

Not that being able to select traits that "sound like me" will impart that which describes "me." Taking overweight shouldn't necessarily impact your running ability, after all, you're an overweight football player, right? Taking clumsy shouldn't make me loud because, while I have a tendency to trip, I catch myself in a cat-like manner! Sigh.

 

Of course, this argument does faulter in stride at the tongue-in-cheek "Proper Zombies" checkbox.

This conversation appears to be approaching its end, particularly if the "majority" (I learned from Rathlord's terrible mistake! Woe, be the Rathlord!) just dismisses one-another outright, myself included.

[Luingar]

Of course, this argument does faulter in stride at the tongue-in-cheek "Proper Zombies" checkbox.

This conversation appears to be approaching its end, particularly if the "majority" (I learned from Rathlord's terrible mistake! Woe, be the Rathlord!) just dismisses one-another outright, myself included.

 

This is why i suggested this as a SANDBOX option. This suggestion is, in my opinion, on par with that checkbox, allowing you to make yourself a touch more powerful rather than making the zombies pathetic or worse yet, non-existant.

[Roach]

 

Honestly why is this something that disgust you so much?

Like I what have been said countless times earlier:

 It can easily be modified. No need for devs to spend time on this. Meanwhile if put into the game it encourages people to weaken several game mechanics and balance; new players would likely become used to it while learning. They would thereafter risk progressing  to harder difficulty while still using this option, why would you encourage people to spoil their experience?

 

Is it really that disturbing to download it yourself? 

[Brandon354]

Like I what have been said countless times earlier:

 It can easily be modified. No need for devs to spend time on this. Meanwhile if put into the game it encourages people to weaken several game mechanics and balance; new players would likely become used to it while learning. They would thereafter risk progressing  to harder difficulty while still using this option, why would you encourage people to spoil their experience?

 

Is it really that disturbing to download it yourself? 

I put an easy option on a game does it encourage people to use it? no. people will still choose legendary/impossible/hard difficulty, and it wouldn't take them much time to implement so the no need to spend time argument is a worthless one as even you said it wouldn't take long and it doesn't weaken game mechanics and balance because even if you took every positive trait you would still not be superman not to mention that isn't what most people plan on doing if this is implemented. It doesn't spoil the experience by implementing it, It is spoiled it if people stand in the way of something worth implementing. Is it really that disturbing to just not hit a check box such as when you want to keep "proper zombies". There is no need for it to be modded when most people want it in vanilla and it doesn't hurt those that don't want it and they could ignore it with ease.

[EnigmaGrey]

I put an easy option on a game does it encourage people to use it?

I guess all those "normal are the new easy!" arguments people throw around regarding modern gaming, and developers justify by claiming increased accessibility, is no encouragement what-so-ever.

 

 

This is why i suggested this as a SANDBOX option. This suggestion is, in my opinion, on par with that checkbox, allowing you to make yourself a touch more powerful rather than making the zombies pathetic or worse yet, non-existant.

This is why I attempted to discuss current "sandbox" games that still impose restriction.

[7Roses]

pfff a lot of talk about something fairly easy.

 

the limitless of traits should be a mod,

mod exist to give people who want the game to be more easy/difficult (or an other set of rules) than what the devs give you.

so if you want to have unlimited traits then just go to the mod forum, ask some modder to create a mod for you and voila from now on everyone who want that the game has an option for unlimited traits can just go to the forum, instal ONE file and play with unlimited traits

 

EDIT: actually you know what I will make said mod, but I'm not directly going to restrict it to sandbox only (cause I don't really know at the moment how to see what mod your game is in)

Edited August 3, 2013 by 7Roses

[Brandon354]

I guess all those "normal are the new easy!" arguments people throw around regarding modern gaming, and developers justify by claiming increased accessibility, is no encouragement what-so-ever.

I've never heard those arguments and regardless of the route normal has taken over the years hard has become harder. games having better AI implemented means that in campaign and multiplayer bots are much more effective and it doesn't hurt that on hard in just about any shooter game  they have near perfect accuracy combined with extreme aiming speed, and seeming to know when you are trailing them. In strategy games A.I.s often get the jump on you through rushing or if it finds out you are rushing it will turtle not that these are hard to beat if you use anti A.I. tactics (such as building a wall around their base) or if the game is unbalanced  but that just shows you were not looking for a good game anyway.

[Roach]

I put an easy option on a game does it encourage people to use it? no. people will still choose legendary/impossible/hard difficulty,

What are you talking about? If you put in an option it encourages people to use it just by existing.

People will still choose hard settings? I don't think you even tried to read my comment, the problem is and have always been that new player's risk getting used to the more game simplifying option.

it wouldn't take them much time to implement so the no need to spend time argument is a worthless one as even you said it wouldn't take long

It is still time they could have spent resolves bugs.

 

 it doesn't weaken game mechanics and balance because even if you took every positive trait you would still not be superman not to mention that isn't what most people plan on doing if this is implemented.

How does this not deteriorate the game balance? Here is a minor list

 

"Faster running speed; Can run for longer without tiring"

"Less prone to becoming panicked."

"Faster visibility fade; Higher visibility arc"

"Larger perception radius"

"Needs to eat less regularly"

"Doesn't get drunk easily"

"Less prone to disease; Slower rate of zombification"

"Extra knockback from melee weapons; Increased carrying weight"

 

 

Is it really that disturbing to just not hit a check box such as when you want to keep "proper zombies". There is no need for it to be modded when most people want it in vanilla and it doesn't hurt those that don't want it and they could ignore it with ease.

 

 

You are not even trying to listen to read what I said. I wouldn't get hurt, the players who will have their experience spoiled would. If the developers want ruin their reputation when people start saying how boring and trivial the game is, then they should feel free to implement this next patch.

 

[Brandon354]

Those suggesting it be modded are missing the point. If it had to be modded just because a few people didn't want it in the game almost all new features would be mods instead of the devs doing anything. It does fit into the game and it is sandbox and the majority of sandbox games or sandbox modes do not impose unnecessary restrictions upon relevant and wanted things. This is worth being put into the game and if you don't want it in just don't click that check box and viola everyone wins.

[Brandon354]

You are not even trying to listen to read what I said. I wouldn't get hurt, the players who will have their experience spoiled would. If the developers want ruin their reputation when people start saying how boring and trivial the game is, then they should feel free to implement this next patch.

I did listen it just isn't a valid point. You are the one not listening  No one gets hurt and nobody's experience is ruined. Adding more options will never make a game more boring and will appeal to more people regardless of what you seem to think, and no putting an option in a game or simply having it exist does not encourage it (unless you somehow encourage playing the game on easy, normal, and hard simultaneously along with no cheats while cheating), it is simply giving the option so I don't know what you are talking about.

[Roach]

 

I did listen it just isn't a valid point. No one gets hurt and nobody's experience is ruined. 

 

 

 

You are not even close to listening.

[EnigmaGrey]

Brandon, you're repeating yourself and dismissing any point that doesn't conform to your view.

 

You win purely through attrition.

Sigh.

[7Roses]

Brandon, most items in the game are implemented first as a mod then further in the code.

 

for example farming, campfire,  watershutoff, tents, ... they all started as a mod on PZ and are lateron implemented because the devs found that it was indeed a feature that should be implemented as most users used them

[Brandon354]

Brandon, you're repeating yourself and dismissing any point that doesn't conform to your view.

 

You win purely through attrition.

Sigh.

Everyone else is doing the same so what was the point you are attempting to make? I am not dismissing your views (though you do appear to be dismissing mine and others) I have considered them and found this to be the most reasonable way.

[Brandon354]

Brandon, most items in the game are implemented first as a mod then further in the code.

 

for example farming, campfire,  watershutoff, tents, ... they all started as a mod on PZ and are lateron implemented because the devs found that it was indeed a feature that should be implemented as most users used them

That may be, but they are not suggesting that it be implemented later on they are suggesting that it stay a mod because they feel it doesn't suit the game.

[Brandon354]

You are not even close to listening.

On the contrary it is you who refuses to listening my friend. 

[Roach]

Everyone else is doing the same so what was the point you are attempting to make? I am not dismissing your views (though you do appear to be dismissing mine and others) I have considered them and found this to be the most reasonable reasonable.

No, you are not considering anything. You repeat the statement ''No one gets hurt and nobody's experience is ruined.'' while not providing any arguments. You remind me of a creationist with this way of debating.

[Brandon354]

No, you are not considering anything. You repeat the statement ''No one gets hurt and nobody's experience is ruined.'' while not providing any arguments. You remind me of a creationist with this way of debating.

I did provide arguments and now you bring religion into this without reason, what a great guy. Nobody's experience is ruined because that is the way they want it. Riddle me this, if they find this way of playing to be more fun how was there experience and in affect their view of PZ ruined? You have yet to provide a good argument and I have considered your arguments they just aren't valid.

[EnigmaGrey]

You remind me of a creationist with this way of debating.

My moderator-sense is tingling.

All mentions of religion past this point will receive a warning.

This, too, means the discussion of the comment itself, Roach and Brandon.