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Is late game forgotten, trivial and unrewarding?


Charlypizza

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  • 1 month later...

For me, one of the biggest issues with the endgame is how predictable the zombie population is. I know that the game starts with few zombies, then it increases every day until time x and then they will respawn every y hours if you clear them out. There is never a moment where you are surprised, because you know for a fact that every town area will be sprawling with zombies. Have to go back to town? You know what's going to wait for you.

 

IMO we need a better mechanic to move the population around. Let town areas be empty for a while, or have them be completely flooded with bodies. Shake up the endgame with things that aren't super predictable.

 

Another thing - Take a look at "Save Our Station", which is currently the jazz on the workshop. It's giving the player something to do at random. It's a fantastic example for simple late-game content which doesn't require the whole game to be changed. The game needs more things like this which don't revolve around me grinding skills or items.

 

tl;r - what this game needs isn't necessarily NPCs and stuff like that, but more emergent gameplay without adding to the tediousness.

Edited by Lexx2k
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I liked the idea of wandering traders a lot. Late game should not only be about zombie populations but also about survivors forming bigger and better groups. Dynamic content in the form of quests you give to or receive from survivors. Maybe even a community establishing itself and dealing with hordes, the breaking down of technology and the scarcity of certain items such as ammo and medicine.

 

Having options to improve player structures, player vehicles, clothes, better food storage etc. would also provide a lot of late game fun for me.

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  • 1 month later...

Here are also some of my thoughts on this:

-The secret military base, which by the way is in the game, is a very good thing. Of course, this is the story of our death, but who prevents us from trying to cure the survivors from airborne infection. Moreover, labotos with experiments are also registered in the game.

- Development of the rest of the world. The first 7 days we can see the development of events in America. I think it would be interesting to hear news from other regions.

-Collecting. As mentioned above, this is quite rightly an entertaining thing for the category, especially I like the ideas of military equipment and weapons. Moreover, it complements the paragraph below well.

- Expansion of the map over time. According to various media reports, the military has surrounded the territory of Knox County. By forcing them to retreat further and creating a way for us, a huge crowd of zombies breaks the environment of the military, forcing them to retreat further and creating a way for us. This will be especially important, because the new territory will be attacked suddenly, which promises the player a large number of survivors, zombies, loot and interesting, maybe rare items.

- Maybe some little stories that we can learn from notes found in houses or zombies

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Imo, the game is really fun, but there isn't a goal other than indefinite security. The interesting thing about this game, and the pull for me, is that the actual goal is death. It's the only game in the world where you are meant to DIE. That's the only way to end the game. The fun for the player comes from trying to die in the most prolonged, epic, badass, awesome way they can. 

Its a pity that we have to be under employee monitoring software so I cant play so often now

 

 

Edited by gomezcarsonk
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For me, and I would assume for many people, the fun of the game comes from the risk and terror of the fight and flight to survive. That's why late game, if you survive that far, starts to become a bit stale. It all becomes a little too safe and you have the option to just play it as a base building/farming game. No real challenge.

 

So my solution is to make the game much harder so that surviving to late game is quite unlikely, and while you are alive, there's more challenge, more fear, and more problems. Putting zombie type onto random so you never know if the zombie near you is shambler, fast shambler, or sprinter is one way to keep things exciting. And then play with house alarms and car alarms on thus making even zombies not attracted to you sources of second degree danger. If you're especially masochistic, play with the helicopter event as Sometimes. Since there isn't really a robust event system (like in Rimworld), this will absolutely remove any complacency which increases fun and interest.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Perhaps a little out of the vein of this post in particular, and what I have to say may have been brought up, but I give myself certain tasks to try to set some goals. Like, collect all the mankins in the map, then dressing them up like the village people. Oh, and one as Spiffo, too. Seems the mascot outfit's spawn rate has been nerfed, and trying to find a full intact outfit can be a challenge in it's own right. 

 

Collect all arcade machines. Build a gameroom with a bar and pool table. Silly, inane things like that. Might not be your vibe, but I find it can extend the playtime on an older character.

 

Given time, I have full confidence the dev's will add more spice to the end game stew. Hell, the animal build will add plenty, I'm sure. Not to mention when NPCs finally get pushed.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I reckon a really good "endgame" would be like the final mission in Halo Reach. An unbeatable ending, spawning waves of Zombies that are stronger than the last.

 

It would be like CoD Zombies. The zombies always know where you are and eventually you die because the enemies keep getting stronger with each wave.

 

But in the style of Project Zomboid and Tower Defence.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/25/2021 at 6:06 PM, Arsenlupin said:

i am horryfied by some suggestion... gathering 10 rabbit for some faction? guys u can do that on a korean mmo why do you want that in a pixel indi game? 

 

Please stop to ask for stuf you can find somewhere els or some direct story line that explain everything to you ... it's an indi game... it's original and kind of unique and i hope it remains like that.

 

This is a totally stupid logical fallacy. PZ is not sUpEr UnIqUe or whatever you are trying to claim here. This isn't Thomas Was Alone, QWOP, or Goat Simulator. It's literally The Sims as a zombie survival game?? By your logic, we shouldn't have crafting in the game because you can do that in Rust. We shouldn't have building since this isn't Minecraft. Take vehicles out of the game because you can drive in Forza. And we definitely shouldn't have guns anymore because, what is this, an FPS?

 

If you have fun collecting useless pianos, video games, and pool tables for hundreds of hours; that's perfectly fine. But you are basically playing Home Flipper with zombies at that point. Sure, that is actually a pretty fun aspect of the game. I love finding unique tiles, and building up an impenetrable zombie fortress with cool collectibles. Commander's Hobbies is one of my favorite mods to play with for that exact reason! But, the additions in that mod actually have gameplay uses and therefore have an extrinsic value. They haven't even gotten around to adding uses for most of those cool things yet, so they might as well be statues.

 

Regardless, no one is trying to stop you from playing the way you do and enjoying your time in Knox Country. What we are asking for, is more of a progression to the game that would allow us long-time players to try and push our playthroughs to new levels. It is 100% a fact that NPC Humans and Animals are coming within the next few years. And it has been planned for 10 years that those NPCs will form dynamic, fluid factions unique to each game. So my question to you is, what is your idea for how these factions will interact with the player character? No one is asking for a stationary quest-giver with a big exclamation mark above their head asking you for 10 troll skulls in exchange for XP. However, let's say you are trying to help/join a faction, or if an evil group comes to your door. Would you not be required, by the basic mechanics of the game, to bring them things like food and other supplies?

 

This is an intended feature in the game, it has been since PZ's inception. I understand you like the game the way it is right now, but nothing about this will take away from what you love about it. You will always have the ability to turn of NPC Humans or Animals in Sandbox, just like you currently can with zombies and do a 'Last Man on Earth' survival playthrough. Coming to the forums (and especially a discussion about how to improve the boring end-game), and saying that we should just play collector with an unfinished game that is missing 90% of it's late-game content is both nonconstructive, and ignorant. Most of us want to play this game for years to come, as we have for the past decade. And whether it's map expansions, vehicles, or new skills; everything they've implemented that adds to the late-game has brought us back (along with new players) in droves.

 

I am happy that you, a random fan, enjoys this early access game as it is. But nothing would make me happier than seeing TIS get massive critical and commercial success from this baby that they have been raising for a decade now. And that won't happen without a strong player progression full of emergent gameplay that ultimately ends with a sense of satisfaction and finality. This game is like old Minecraft, there is no 'ending.' Survival and player-generated goals are the whole point, and I love that about the game. However, there needs to be a general goal to build towards, or else every playthrough becomes monotonous. I guarantee once the goal of rebuilding society and conquering/securing Knox Country is implemented, it will open up infinite other ways to play the game. It's the reason MP is so much more fun and long-lasting than SP, because you can actually build towards a goal that feels bigger than yourself. It's also the reason Minecraft is the biggest game on Earth. For being nothing more than a "pixel indie game"; it has communities of competitive PVP, speedrunners, pixel artists, builders, and much much more. Project Zomboid could be bigger and more varied than that, with the level of depth everything has. It just needs a goal that you can build towards in a satisfying way while doing whatever other bullshit you wanna work on. The game doesn't have to end, and nobody wants a cure or escape from the apocalypse. Zombies, Raiders, and Nature will always be a challenge. We all just want a moment you can say, "I basically won," and either keep playing to work on smaller goals, or move on to a new save. I really hope to see the day this comes to the game, and see the vast playstyles this amazing indie masterpiece can spawn with an 'ending' of sorts. And guess what, your Collectathon will be one of them along with many more.

Edited by TrailerParkThor
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@barikmorlocBingo, that's my thought as well. There will be a main goal and an ending to the game. The main goal is to rebuild society and secure Knox Country from most threats. The ending will be a Megahorde that continuously spawns more and more until you are completely overwhelmed and die. I said previously it should occur randomly after a certain population/time threshold. However, after a few months and many more hours of playing PZ, I think it would need to be player initiated.

 

My idea is this: a twist on most people's wish to escape to safety, or cure the Knox Flu. You would need to get into contact with the US Military. You would need to go to all the most dangerous places on the map: Fort Knox, the secret research base, the quarantine camp in Louisville and get some special item or make contact with the military itself there. After that you would need to build some complex machines. Perhaps a homing beacon, radio station, etc. Once complete, the military will bring evac helicopters to your location. However, here's the twist. They have thousands of zombies tailing them from wherever they are from. They never land due to this and leave you to deal with the mess they made. Maybe one of the helicopters even crashes, causing even more zombies to alert to your location. This will begin the Megahorde, and you will now be tasked with surviving as long as you can during this event. A secondary meta will form around surviving more and more waves even. This will allow players who are done with their game to take fate into their own hands and have one last hoorah send off for their PC, and showcase all the skills they've maxed out, the weapons, armor, and faction members they've acquired, and the amazing bases they've built up with all the collectibles. All by watching it crash and burn down in a firey blaze of glory. As I said in this thread previously:

 

On 11/20/2020 at 11:51 PM, TrailerParkThor said:

The interesting thing about this game, and the pull for me, is that the actual goal is death. It's the only game in the world where you are meant to DIE. That's the only way to end the game. The fun for the player comes from trying to die in the most prolonged, epic, badass, awesome way they can.

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  • 4 months later...

The players on on our server have decided that our "win conditions" are when we use up all the gas in every gas station on the map. 

 

All the end-game needs is a reason to take a risk. Yes, you can sit behind your walls, keep quiet, farm, and live almost indefinitely. The challenge becomes when you need to leave your base. When doing so, you are taking risks, and you might get killed. 

 

This is why our "win condition" is using all the gas from all the gas stations on the map. If we want to "win" we need to leave our base and take risks. 

 

This likely is not for everyone, its just how we added a "late-game" element to our server to make things more interesting. 

 

Everyone plays their own way. 

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