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lemmy101

IWBUMS 41.32 released!

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Hooray! Now I can resume construction of the water cottage.
I also thank you for fixing all the other reported bugs.
Thanks for always dedicated development!

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Sweet! Of course I just switched back to 40.43 (or whatevs) to run around a server for a bit. I am glad that MP is moving along - so needed during these interesting times, MP is. I'm all happy about goofy stuff like ropes as sheet ropes and more jars! lol So bizarre that I was commenting to my wife this morning that looters would find a cluttered kitchen at our place. Great loot but you'd have to poke around, move some stuff, get distracted (legal weed!), and make noise... Anyway, weird that I talk about cluttered kitchens - which I'll fix within the hour - and you guys add it. I haven't spear fished yet either. Excellent. =)

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Now that ropes can be used as sheet ropes, will they be stronger than sheet ropes, or even invulnerable to being damaged by zombies? I mean, ropes are incredibly tough compared to simple sheet rope.

Also, was curious if we could ever get the option to 'raise' and 'lower' sheet ropes, to possibly avoid them being damaged by zeds when not in use.

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On 3/12/2020 at 2:19 PM, lemmy101 said:

- Before there was a 100% crit chance with knife when backstabbing, now it will occurs only if the zombie is unalert

I'm sad about the knife nerf, but its overall got a lot of welcome changes and fixes. But I am curious about this last part here in the quote - how do you achieve this situation in normal gameplay?

 

I've attempted this with 10 lightfoot, 10 sneak, graceful and inconspicious, but a zombie detects me no matter what when I am behind them as if they have their own vision circle around them like the player. 

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1 hour ago, thewergof5 said:

from what i know - it takes around three years for a body to skeletonize.

I believe that's if it's in a coffin underground. I'm sure if a body was left in the woods it would be picked clean by animals pretty quickly.

Then again, it may be that animals don't dare touch zombie remains.

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Posted (edited)

Good job on the update, lots of fantastic changes.

 

One thing I've noticed straight away (which may be a game-changer for some people) is that when you're trying to attack zombies while walking backwards, the character seems to stop moving while swinging. It makes kiting large groups much more difficult now.

 

Here's a clip of it: https://i.imgur.com/kB0Spcn.mp4

 

Is this intentional or a bug, as I didn't see any mention of it in the patch notes?

 

*edit*

Reading around the forums I'm guessing it's actually this from the patch notes:

- Fixed sandbox options "attack block movement" not working

 

I didn't realise that was even a default setting, so was surprised to find it suddenly working. Good to know it can be disabled if needed!

FYI the sandbox option is "melee movement disruption" in case other's aren't too sure.

Edited by gaiscioch

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5 hours ago, ohgodspidersno said:

I believe that's if it's in a coffin underground. I'm sure if a body was left in the woods it would be picked clean by animals pretty quickly.

Then again, it may be that animals don't dare touch zombie remains.

Also, we could have a lore-bound reason for the faster decomposition; maybe the virus speeds up the body's decomposition by breaking up healthy cells or something.

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Posted (edited)

Guys thank you for a great game. In which I played 5765 hours)) You added a walkie-talkie on your belt, but it is active only when taken in hand, can you make it always active?

P.S sorry for my English:)

Edited by Golantor

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Yay for the update!

 

Can anyone tell me please if I need to start a new game to see the changes? I mean specifically the changes to the loot table. Or it will simply take effect in cells I haven't visited yet?

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Melee movement disruption is way, WAY overtuned.

 

It's really not hard to walk (not run) and strike with a weapon accurately against a target that just shambles towards you and does not defend itself. Using a weapon with longer reach, that's even easier. There's a reason spears were used for millenia, from cavemen to peasants to professional soldiers, in human history. Polearms are really easy to use, with very little training, even against stronger and larger prey. Against human-sized targets that completely ignore defense, walk slower than you and don't wear armor, it's child's play. 

 

My character now feels like she is wearing lead boots and took a shot of morphine before fighting. Every attack takes forever to recover from. Realistic 3d movement does not equal extreme clunkiness. It's like wearing full plate armor without any benefit whatsoever. 

 

Sometimes I feel like the devs watch some youtube videos with skilled players bringing down zombies efficiently, and they decide "We can't have that! Let's completely nerf X! This is how you died, after all!". I'm all for a good challenge, but certainly not at the expense of verisimilitude. 

 

My 81 year old great-grandmother can walk and hit me with a broom on the head (very accurately and multiple times) at the same time without stopping (true story). My 27 year old Athletic and Stout character (with 4 points in spears no less) can't strike a defenseless target and take one step back at the same time.

 

If you really want to include that unrealistic feature, set it on for Apocalypse mode, not for Survivor (which was called "Fighter", and still has "Powerful Combat" in the description). I know there's a sandbox option for that, but I still don't think this has a place on Survivor. At the very least, let higher levels of combat skill (and by higher I mean 2+) fully negate the movement disruption.

 

Finally, if anyone wants practical example, search youtube for videos on moving while striking. There's some very basic ones, even for people that never trained martial arts before.

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Posted (edited)

Seems that the default preset when creating a new save is Survivor instead of Apocalypse, so every challenge seems to be affected by this. Just try to create a sandbox game and you'll see that the default preset is Survivor.

Edited by axeladalidez78

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1 hour ago, NaomiColt said:

Melee movement disruption is way, WAY overtuned.

 

It's really not hard to walk (not run) and strike with a weapon accurately against a target that just shambles towards you and does not defend itself. Using a weapon with longer reach, that's even easier. There's a reason spears were used for millenia, from cavemen to peasants to professional soldiers, in human history. Polearms are really easy to use, with very little training, even against stronger and larger prey. Against human-sized targets that completely ignore defense, walk slower than you and don't wear armor, it's child's play. 

 

My character now feels like she is wearing lead boots and took a shot of morphine before fighting. Every attack takes forever to recover from. Realistic 3d movement does not equal extreme clunkiness. It's like wearing full plate armor without any benefit whatsoever. 

 

Sometimes I feel like the devs watch some youtube videos with skilled players bringing down zombies efficiently, and they decide "We can't have that! Let's completely nerf X! This is how you died, after all!". I'm all for a good challenge, but certainly not at the expense of verisimilitude. 

 

My 81 year old great-grandmother can walk and hit me with a broom on the head (very accurately and multiple times) at the same time without stopping (true story). My 27 year old Athletic and Stout character (with 4 points in spears no less) can't strike a defenseless target and take one step back at the same time.

 

If you really want to include that unrealistic feature, set it on for Apocalypse mode, not for Survivor (which was called "Fighter", and still has "Powerful Combat" in the description). I know there's a sandbox option for that, but I still don't think this has a place on Survivor. At the very least, let higher levels of combat skill (and by higher I mean 2+) fully negate the movement disruption.

 

Finally, if anyone wants practical example, search youtube for videos on moving while striking. There's some very basic ones, even for people that never trained martial arts before.


Oh dude, I’m months ahead of you on the “look for videos to prove a pause is unrealistic!” angle, learning to accept it only after seeing the mess not having it made of the animations (floating, disconnected legs) and wrecked any semblance of balance to kiting (which can’t be solved by other means like reducing damage because it makes kiting simply extremely long and few people intuitively  seem to understand it). We’re still tweaking things and exploring other options, but it’s not even something that’s unique to Pz - it’s been used to balance kiting in other games, as well, because there’s just not many good options short of implementing dps and discarding hits, both horrible ideas for PZ. A slow down without pause, while we’re open to it, likely  has its own issues, combining lengthy kiting sessions and floating anims with a lack of intuition.

 

The only  times I found videos with moving while striking, especially with a spear, was when attempting to antagonize your opponent or reactionary hits meant to deal a superficial wound. Both of which are rather useless against something that doesn’t feel any pain and can’t be scared off., that is only killed by headshots instead of bleeding out. There’s also a decided lack of zombies riding horses in this reality.

 

A lack of pause makes sense only for small items, like knives, or unarmed, or when fencing. Those can be explored later.
 

When we move on to integrating combat more heavily into the level system, I’m sure other things can be done - like special takedowns for multiple zombies, but that’s not for today.

 

I don’t expect it everyone to be happy, but we’ve spent months messing with this stuff and trying to dance around people’s feelings on it despite an overall lack of criticism and feedback on it despite this being both our longest iwbums and most played update ever.

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1 minute ago, EnigmaGrey said:


Oh dude, I’m months ahead of you on the “look for videos to prove a pause is unrealistic!” angle, learning to accept it only after seeing the mess not having it made of the animations (floating, disconnected legs) and wrecked any semblance of balance to kiting (which can’t be solved by other means like reducing damage because it makes kiting simply extremely long and few people intuitively  seem to understand it). We’re still tweaking things and exploring other options, but it’s nit even snorting that’s unique to Pz - it’s been used to balance kiting in other games, as well, because there’s just not many good options short of implementing dps and discarding hits, both horrible ideas for PZ. A slow down without pause, while we’re open to it, likely  has its own issues - combing lengthy kiting sessions and floating anims.

 

The only  times I found videos with moving while striking, especially with a spear, was when attempting to antagonize your opponent or reactionary hits meant to deal a superficial wound. Both of which are rather useless against something that doesn’t feel any pain and can’t be scared off.

 

A lack of pause makes sense only for small items, like knives, or unarmed. Those can be explored later.
 

When we move on to integrating combat more heavily into the level system, I’m sure other things can be done - like special takedowns for multiple zombies.

 

I don’t expect it to me everyone happy, but we’ve spent months messing with this stuff and trying to dance around people’s feelings on it despite an overall lack of criticism and feedback on it despite this being both our longest iwbums and most played update ever.

 

 

Sigh. I'll try to keep to the point instead of using an angry, dismissive tone. 

 

Walking backwards with a spear and fighting a human oponent might be a bit complicated, because he'll dodge, block and if he has a long reach weapon as well, you have to worry about counterattacks.

 

A zombie simply walks forward - he never protects vital parts, usually has one or two arms outstretched (leaving weak points open), and some of them even let their heads lean forward in front of their bodies. A zombie is easily baited, feinted and deceived. It just follows two basic instincts: kill and eat. It doesn't have a clue if that pointy stick aimed at its head is going to kill it.

 

Such a target is laughably easy to hit while moving. I mean it - grab a broom, walk backwards, and tell me you can't place strong accurate thrusts in front of you.

What you have to do is worry about your footing (you may trip if it's uneven terrain and you're not paying attention) and zombies sneaking at your back. Stopping after each swing is not realistic and very tedious. I'm sure that there is a better path than implementing artificial, unrealistic difficulty by twisting reality just because players are being efficient. Spears are just THAT good in real life. 

 

Technical issues are another matter - but neither me nor any of my friends saw anything wrong in that regard lately (floating legs?). What we did feel as soon as we booted the game today was our characters being slow, stiff and clunky. 

 

Also, this feature (fix?) was uploaded today. I suppose the criticism and feedback (even positive ones) will be coming from now on.

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50 minutes ago, NaomiColt said:

 

 

Sigh. I'll try to keep to the point instead of using an angry, dismissive tone. 

 

Walking backwards with a spear and fighting a human oponent might be a bit complicated, because he'll dodge, block and if he has a long reach weapon as well, you have to worry about counterattacks.

 

A zombie simply walks forward - he never protects vital parts, usually has one or two arms outstretched (leaving weak points open), and some of them even let their heads lean forward in front of their bodies. A zombie is easily baited, feinted and deceived. It just follows two basic instincts: kill and eat. It doesn't have a clue if that pointy stick aimed at its head is going to kill it.

 

Such a target is laughably easy to hit while moving. I mean it - grab a broom, walk backwards, and tell me you can't place strong accurate thrusts in front of you.

What you have to do is worry about your footing (you may trip if it's uneven terrain and you're not paying attention) and zombies sneaking at your back. Stopping after each swing is not realistic and very tedious. I'm sure that there is a better path than implementing artificial, unrealistic difficulty by twisting reality just because players are being efficient. Spears are just THAT good in real life. 

 

Technical issues are another matter - but neither me nor any of my friends saw anything wrong in that regard lately (floating legs?). What we did feel as soon as we booted the game today was our characters being slow, stiff and clunky. 

 

Also, this feature (fix?) was uploaded today. I suppose the criticism and feedback (even positive ones) will be coming from now on.

You’d be wrong. It’s been in for months and only missing for a bit over a week. The people that complain seem to be limited to same handful on Discord as last time.

 

Your experiment fails due the weight of a broom handle and the lack of need to brace or counter balance when hitting anything. I think that demonstrates your bias well enough, even ignoring that you’re focusing on a single weapon and failing to provide any proof despite the wealth of videos presumably avaible?

 

Here, I’ll do it for you.

 

http://gurpspalantirquest.blogspot.com/2013/05/exploiting-weapon-reach-in-gurps.html?m=1


 

 

 

And really, you don't notice anything wrong? Look at it. :D
 

 

No weight to the animations, feed totally disconnected from the upper body, compared to videos of those of real people fighting.

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Hi guys! I posted this in the last update thread but I didn't receive any acknowledgement so I figured I should reply again in more detail, because I'm sure I'm not the only mac player and I can't be the only one who still has these problems. The models look monochrome, color depends on the color of t-shirt you're wearing.1765159233_ScreenShot2020-03-20at20_21_47.thumb.png.9e62b1fcf24d2343e0adb885944e3ef8.png

I went with pink.

1886832772_ScreenShot2020-03-20at20_23_59.png.c4d1d39943ae28dc9edc460ccb00cb65.png

You can see that some zombies suffer from the same issue, and the others are completely transparent, except for their shirt and hair!1735267220_ScreenShot2020-03-20at20_24_48.thumb.png.a06f9d378bc5af4c36030cfe395e3e4b.png

The screen also looks pretty glitched out when I first load in, but it's so brief I couldn't get a screen grab of it. These issues make the game really difficult for me to play in this state, which is a shame because I really enjoy this game, and the updates are introducing a lot of cool stuff.

I'm playing on a late 2013 iMac. I'm not sure what else would be relevant info to include, but let me know if you need more. Thanks for keeping on the updates guys.

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9 minutes ago, clovenhoof said:

Hi guys! I posted this in the last update thread but I didn't receive any acknowledgement so I figured I should reply again in more detail, because I'm sure I'm not the only mac player and I can't be the only one who still has these problems. The models look monochrome, color depends on the color of t-shirt you're wearing.1765159233_ScreenShot2020-03-20at20_21_47.thumb.png.9e62b1fcf24d2343e0adb885944e3ef8.png

I went with pink.

1886832772_ScreenShot2020-03-20at20_23_59.png.c4d1d39943ae28dc9edc460ccb00cb65.png

You can see that some zombies suffer from the same issue, and the others are completely transparent, except for their shirt and hair!1735267220_ScreenShot2020-03-20at20_24_48.thumb.png.a06f9d378bc5af4c36030cfe395e3e4b.png

The screen also looks pretty glitched out when I first load in, but it's so brief I couldn't get a screen grab of it. These issues make the game really difficult for me to play in this state, which is a shame because I really enjoy this game, and the updates are introducing a lot of cool stuff.

I'm playing on a late 2013 iMac. I'm not sure what else would be relevant info to include, but let me know if you need more. Thanks for keeping on the updates guys.

Unfortunately, we've not made any progress wit it. Any fixes we've tried, have not worked. So we're rather stumped on it, right now.

 

All I can tel you is it's limited to Macs with Nvidia cards.  I can only guess it's due to Apple having a falling out with them over a number of years, cumulating in dropping them in 2015. They don't provide any support for nVidia GPUs past a rather incomplete driver. Installing nVidia's web drivers do not seem to help.

 

I think the only thing that might work is dual booting Windows on the machine (BootCamp would still use the host's driver, iirc). 

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15 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Unfortunately, we've not made any progress wit it. Any fixes we've tried, have not worked. So we're rather stumped on it, right now.

 

All I can tel you is it's limited to Macs with Nvidia cards.  I can only guess it's due to Apple having a falling out with them over a number of years, cumulating in dropping them in 2015. They don't provide any support for nVidia GPUs past a rather incomplete driver. Installing nVidia's web drivers do not seem to help.

 

I think the only thing that might work is dual booting Windows on the machine (BootCamp would still use the host's driver, iirc). 

heck. Well, I still have a lot of fun on build 40. I hope you guys'll be able to come up with something down the line. Thanks.

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On 3/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, lemmy101 said:

- State changes now respect partial consumption of foods

Can some one explain to me, changes state of what? Respect how much partial of foods? 1/4 1/2?

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17 hours ago, NaomiColt said:

 

 

(snip)

Such a target is laughably easy to hit while moving. I mean it - grab a broom, walk backwards, and tell me you can't place strong accurate thrusts in front of you.

What you have to do is worry about your footing (you may trip if it's uneven terrain and you're not paying attention) and zombies sneaking at your back. Stopping after each swing is not realistic and very tedious. I'm sure that there is a better path than implementing artificial, unrealistic difficulty by twisting reality just because players are being efficient. Spears are just THAT good in real life.

(snip)

 

From my own experience as a self-defence practitioner, if you don't put your weight behind a strike, punch, whatever, it's going to be more of a slap than a strong strike.

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On 3/19/2020 at 7:36 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

While they’re still fleshy corpses, they eat a considerable amount of resources that’d be better left to the walking dead. Get a few thousand corpses in one placed and the game tends to perpetually chug or even crash in that area. 😛

 

As Lemmy says though, this is really just a quick fix. Something less obvious will be done later.

Will this change take effect in my current pre 41.32 world after I boot up the game? While I like the idea of corpses decaying and eventually turning into skeletons, I think that 18 days is way too short for the bodies to fully dissapear and I wouldn't personally enjoy it in my world right now. I honestly prefer to just dispose of the bodies myself by burning them in piles. In case it does take effect after I download 41.32, is there a way for me to turn it off somehow or atleast tweak it so it takes something like a couple of months?

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Posted (edited)

Different Mac issue than above!

 

I have no monochrome zombies (yay!).

 

However, fog is my deadliest opponent. When the fog rolls in, I have minutes before my comp overheats and shuts down. Any advice on what settings I can lower/disable to combat The Fog? This may not be new to this update, been a while since I was on.

Edited by trombonaught

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On 3/12/2020 at 6:19 AM, lemmy101 said:

- Better bones masking for melee attacks, hips will now be included, so the melee attack will feel less weird.

-I'm not sure if it's due to the above change, but the vertical movement of the player model when killing a zombie with a wood axe looks really odd now. Instead of the player model's upper body moving down into the swing, sometimes it looks like their whole body tilts forward. A bit of a nitpick, but it is noticeable.

 

-I don't mind the stopping of character movement when attacking, but what does bother me a little is that it doesn't seem to be synchronized with an attack windup, instead the character stops moving a moment after the attack, which to my mind contributes to the movement feeling clunky.

 

-I've also noticed that getting a guaranteed backstab with a short blade weapon seems impossible now. I don't tend to use the weapon type much, but I have never gotten close enough to a zombie from behind to get a backstab with a short knife without alerting it. I doubt it's even possible. This change seems like an excessive nerf of knives, unless there's plans to allow a different way to get a backstab.

 

Minor criticisms aside, I am enjoying the patch. Thanks for all the toilet paper and the fishing buffs!

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