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Sveedur.

Friendly discussion over implementation of NPCs

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Reading over a few old threads on the topic of NPCs it seems many want a different experience when it comes to implementing them, though from what I've read it looks as though the main goal of TIS is for in-depth, and complex mechanics - almost Sims like, except without literally mind controlling them to do what you want; having them form relationships, scavenging for supplies on their own, and even potentially having their own sets of personalities that will effect their attitudes and decision making.

 

The general consensus on the forums over the game in general is, (Aside from multiplayer), a singleplayer sandbox where it'd be preferable to go about and perform your own show, un-burdened over the potential hiccups or fatal accidents this potential AI will decide itself at that moment, completely apart from you; which I think the design TIS has in mind is good on paper, but will only serve to ruin a playthrough, randomly, which can/will be a very unnecessary cause for frustration.

 

 

From this I'm adding in my own suggestion, however, the main goal of this thread is discussing ideas to simplify the concepted AI with added modular code borrowing from each other, while still keeping the system in-depth and incredibly varied, as the developers have intended in mind since the beginning.

 

 

 

From here I introduce 3 types - Type1_Shelterbound   Type2_MetaEvent   Type3_Playerbound    Legend | {/} = Either or    {-} = Transition to

 

The Bandit | Type 1/2 | Shelter-bound and/or roaming areas as a meta-event |

Similar to the abandoned survivor house coded in as a random spawn, this concept will be a moderately modded building (Perhaps a generator or boarded windows or traps or really one to two of anything to that effect, the player can obviously see it is inhabited. This extends to every shelter-bound type, where they will not leave unless death to prevent pre-mature circumstances before the player can enjoy the experience. These two types will have separate behaviors to them, and to keep them from being immediately swarmed by zombies, I suggest they will not normally carry guns [Though there'd definitely be folks who may've lost their minds and their primary weapon can be coded as swapped from melee to any sort of ranged to really mix things up. The few crazy individuals that don't care for the outcome.]

 

Coded roamers will not have a home to which they return, it will be implied they do of course they're 'just not there', but to simplify things they are randomly spawned as a more sophisticated meta-event enemy to come across. Just imagining myself rounding a corner and a nearly starved bandit rushes at me with Axe in hand both terrifies and excites me (Similar to MultiPlayer!). From real life to code, a starving man with little options left will most likely chase you to near exhaustion if it means the chance for food and water. Having them give chase as if a normal zombie would until |A|Certain numbered criteria of angry zombies are met to interrupt |B|They lose sight after [1 minute]. |C|Death to either party.

 

 

 

The Trader | Type 1 | Shelter-bound | The more basic, and even more-so the building structure for the Lore-Focused Survivor

The benefits from this type will vary greatly given consideration to the world pre-set the player chooses, though to keep things simple, the random items they offer will remain similar with only price fluctuating, in accordance to said connected pre-set of food/supply/item spawn. They will remain neutral, though if the extra coding time is put forth I believe that the more you trade with this type, the friendlier they will be with said pricing, even more work and every week there can be a chance he kicks the bucket and dies from anything - where you may even have the chance of finding his reanimated corpse from inside the shelter.

 

 

 

The Lore-focused Survivor | Type 1-3 | Shelter-bound to Player-bound| 

This additional type is more similar to the goal the developers first planned in mind, though with what I feel is the lesser important aspects deleted, this also being the only NPC that will switch between types after meeting the certain criteria. Attempting to open the locked door to this modestly upgraded house and it will trigger the NPC, calling out from inside the house to ask if you're friendly (Any friendlies in Cherno?) before unlocking. Any attempt at breaking in before-hand will turn them hostile. From here forward you will be able to trade strictly consumables with them, using pre-existing code from the Trader type, instead of fluctuating price the more you trade with them, they will share small bits and pieces of their past or general conversation (Perhaps past family, what they miss, what they could use more of, plans to move away, etc., etc.). After a threshold of traded value is surpassed, they'll say "it's probably better to pool resources" and offer to join forces. For added simplification, I believe having only one companion at a time is best for everyone, and that leads to the commands -

 

From here, you'll have newly assigned keys from which you can command this NPC with (I will use the numpad as an example for these simple commands:)

NUM1 Stay here 

NUM2 Stay here and defend (Any hostile entities which spotted you, defends in shorter range)   

NUM3 Stay here and attack (Any hostile entities in a larger range)

NUM4 Follow me 

NUM5 Follow me and defend (Continuously follow, however the range for what they will attack is similar to NUM2)

NUM6 Follow me and attack (More specifically used for when you want to clear out a larger group and have them continuously moving with you)

 

 

 

I understand this is a hefty read for some, and some may see this thread as just a way for me to springboard my own ideas. Partially true, but Id like for everyone to pitch in and help build this idea with me, and even offer up more creatively simple suggestions for building on what I know is to be the most immersive Zombies experience on the market to date.

 

Things don't have to be complex to be an immersive quality, especially when it comes to implementing rational NPCs, which can be the most taxing for older computers - needing to update and keep track of these things on the fly. Sometimes less is more, and adding these lesser complex features than initially planned, I believe will make all the difference. I'm also open to elaborating more on anything I've written here, as I've already typed in quite a mouthful already.

 

I'm interested in hearing what everyone thinks on the subject, and thank you for reading

 

 

 

 

 

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Game have npc's. Just that they are a bit brain dead. (Get it?)  Npc's should not be a focus. Yes some hostile ones mid to late game are ok. And at the start ones that are bitten and allways turn hours after you see them. So even if you save them they die before shelter or food / zombie attacks matter. Meta event npc's! And NO player controlld npc! Just no!  If you have to make a story mode.

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1 hour ago, Turbo50 said:

Meta event npc's! And NO player controlld npc! Just no!  If you have to make a story mode.

Errr. That's pretty much the plan.  

 

I kind of don't understand people not wanting NPCs. First implementations will be more of a spice-up for mid game content.  

Later implementations will certainly change the way the majority of people will play and experience the game as it adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Of course there will be the handful of people who might disable them, but then that's gonna limit your own experience to basically the same "just survive and get self-sustainable until it's boring" "endgame" we have now :P

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1 hour ago, nasKo said:

Errr. That's pretty much the plan.  

 

I kind of don't understand people not wanting NPCs. First implementations will be more of a spice-up for mid game content.  

Later implementations will certainly change the way the majority of people will play and experience the game as it adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Of course there will be the handful of people who might disable them, but then that's gonna limit your own experience to basically the same "just survive and get self-sustainable until it's boring" "endgame" we have now :P

 

At what point did the NPC word embargo get lifted here? It is very unusual to hear you guys mentioning it almost casually now, I remember the days of people shuddering at the mere utter of the word that shalt be spoken. Hell, I remember when they used to be referred to as dragons ;)

 

These are exciting times that I'm glad you guys can hint more towards your goals/aims for the NPCs without all the many hype backlashes that used to happen :) 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr_Sunshine said:

 

At what point did the NPC word embargo get lifted here? It is very unusual to hear you guys mentioning it almost casually now 

 

 

It's friendly discussion over simple, but even still, immersive ways to implement. It isn't over harping them on a release date, or the progress, or demanding information. I'm offering my own viewpoint on this, and asking for anyone else who wishes to, the only rule to keep it simpler and easy to understand and/or implement from a coding perspective (Hence the tag!). I'm sure they are more than willing, and even a tad bit happy to share information and ideas without the unnecessary, added stress that comes with it.

 

 

4 hours ago, Turbo50 said:

Game have npc's. Just that they are a bit brain dead. (Get it?)  Npc's should not be a focus. Yes some hostile ones mid to late game are ok. And at the start ones that are bitten and allways turn hours after you see them. So even if you save them they die before shelter or food / zombie attacks matter. Meta event npc's! And NO player controlld npc! Just no!  If you have to make a story mode.

 

Let me elaborate more on this, like I texted, the main-post was already a mouthful so I didn't/couldn't elaborate on everything. I don't exactly want them to be player-controlled, to an extent, only to issue a few commands to make it easier on player-bound AI from doing stupid things on first iteration and lessen the load. They will still be their own thing, but you can issue commands from time to time whenever this first hypothetical iteration of AI releases to simultaneously be more useful with less code, and not bug out half as often.

 

If you'd offer your ideas on why exactly it wouldn't be preferable, I would genuinely like to hear it, this thread is dedicated to it.

 

 

2 hours ago, nasKo said:

I kind of don't understand people not wanting NPCs. First implementations will be more of a spice-up for mid game content.  

Later implementations will certainly change the way the majority of people will play and experience the game as it adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Of course there will be the handful of people who might disable them, but then that's gonna limit your own experience to basically the same "just survive and get self-sustainable until it's boring" "endgame" we have now :P

 

I fully agree with you on this. What Human NPC's entail when fully immersed is another rational being (Unless it'd be a gun-wielding bandit lmfao), and there are a few ways of iterating them in to the game. There's so much beauty in simplicity; when it's seamless.

 

 

Towards the method I suggested-

It's more believable human behavior types with the attempt of constructing less intensive code on systems, and each one has the opportunity to still offer players something different, if they choose - like the Trader archetype scaling with (lack of a better word) supply spawnrate, when initially creating your playthrough from the menu. Or the settings you set for Zombies affecting how long a given Bandit will give chase, from Zombie speed and/or pure numbers interrupting them.

 

People not wanting implemented at all would only be wasted opportunity! Think of the first two seasons of the Walking Dead - with no other character than Rick Grimes! These are two completely different mediums I'm comparing, obviously, but what I'm saying... is they can only serve to add to your story! From my point of view making it a bit simpler and, more importantly, consistent should be the first goalpost! (Which seems as though you guys are already planning down the pipeline, and I seriously can't wait)

 

 

 

If anyone has simple and effective ideas, this thread is all about it, just be sure to keep it friendly and focused please!

 

 

 

 

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Errr. That's pretty much the plan.  Exactly.  Keep going with that 😋

 

Well. NPC's are a hard thing to make working. By that I mean worth the time invested to get to that point. Just how hard it is for a player to stay alive in the game makes AI survivor's so hard to even think to be possible. They have not the same goals as a real human do. They are smart but not human simply. Resources used to make "NPC's" are better used to flesh out the brain dead. Or anything really. Pre game lore, Fort Knox. Name it.

 

Making the multiplayer (Not complaining about MP)  a better experience is much higher on the list then some stupid AI roaming around. It would be so awesome to have servers that RP more and have all players join the server when it is created. So there are 30 players starting the single player experience with real humans around the world.  Shut down for the day. Next day start up again with most players joining in and continuing on the same map etc etc.  Like a Minecraft server or if you have to compare it to Fortnight matches or whatever. Had allot of fun with DayZ mod playing like that. Ooo good times. Fun memory's with some lovely strangers. 

 

For a AI to live in this world and have a base or loot houses means A: They are cheating to stay alive B: They stupidly die fast after spawning in.  And how are they going to even work in a world that only load the place that the player is currently at? Like there is just no way to make NPC's work outside of meta events or having a server running with AI multiplayer clients roaming around. 

 

Performance problems singe-player and the possibilities of them doing stupid things to ruin the immersion just out way what multiplayer can bring to the game in comparison. 

And if we say that we have a group of survivor to tell what they should do it is even more impotent that they do not screw up. And it kinda feels wrong to have any trading or anything really in the Single player.  Why? Simple. Being alone in this doomed world with very realistic systems of fatigue and looting  really is what makes it work.  Having the game turn into State of Decay is not really what this game is all about. (unless multiplayer)  "This is how YOU died"  Not how "WE" died.

 

Animals and military / random AI that is hostile or bitten is what "NPC" I think very much is something the game can benefit from. Not roaming things getting stuck to a wall or something that clearly is cheating to compensate for lack of intelligence. ( I dare you to make a NPC that play the game like a real player ) 

 

Having animals like deer and stuff is just wonderful! They can outrun Zombies and are the kind of animal Z is not attracted to.  (quite and fast :Sneak100)

 

Some raider attacks or insane ppl late game? No. That is silly. The world is dead emptiness and isolation or what I think more like the feeling of everything is doomed should not be broken like walking dead did.  It should be rare to find a living human in Single player.  And if you do one should be afraid not due to them being evil raiders. But because they are humans. We are evil and untrustworthy on our own.  ;) 

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2 hours ago, Mr_Sunshine said:

 

At what point did the NPC word embargo get lifted here? It is very unusual to hear you guys mentioning it almost casually now, I remember the days of people shuddering at the mere utter of the word that shalt be spoken. Hell, I remember when they used to be referred to as dragons ;)

 

These are exciting times that I'm glad you guys can hint more towards your goals/aims for the NPCs without all the many hype backlashes that used to happen :) 

 

Hint:  FRIENDLY DISCUSSION OVER IMPLEMENTATION OF NPCS

 

😂🤣😂👌

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13 minutes ago, Turbo50 said:

*Stuff he said about performance + NPCs*

Yeah, I'm also very interested in how everything will be conducted performance-wise within the game. In single player it makes sense that NPCs will work meta-wise similarly to zombie distribution now (and I recall mondoid/thursdoids that elaborated on tests they conducted similarly to this), but could be very difficult to implement multiplayer wise. Would be interested to understand what they have planned on the framework/technical aspect of things.

 

13 minutes ago, Turbo50 said:

Hint:  FRIENDLY DISCUSSION OVER IMPLEMENTATION OF NPCS

 

 

Bruh, there used to be a time when the word 'NPC' was strangely mythical and a forbidden taboo whispered in the quiet desolate alleyways of the forums between huddles of people, hiding in fear. It's just so strange to see a moderator suddenly jump up and suddenly proclaim the seductive word of the NPC to his people. 

 

+ the word on this forum just gives me a hard on

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21 hours ago, Mr_Sunshine said:

1) Yeah, I'm also very interested in how everything will be conducted performance-wise within the game. In single player it makes sense that NPCs will work meta-wise Would be interested to understand what they have planned on the framework/technical aspect of things.

 

2) Bruh, there used to be a time when the word 'NPC' 

 

2: Time heals many wounds. And since the new animations + improvments on multiplayer side might help as it shows forward progress? 

 

1: Technical aspect is not that hard to see already.  Unless the insist in some advanced framework where there is roaming survivors running around in the Singleplayer world.  

 Ways to add ANY humans into the game is plenty-full.  AI, MP, Meta events or Bots.  Performance first I think Meta is the only real way forward. Where they only exist for a day or so before dying and turning into one more sick of the flue poor bastard.  But a more opt in way to make a truly good NPC system would be to have 2 PC's. (or one big sucka) 

 

Have a server running. Have NPC's join server. Have player join server on second PC. Boom! Offload the big world simulation to the server and have the player play a fake multiplayer server where the other players are Bots! But how to make a NPC/Bot join a server and work? Well it is just as complicated as adding it into singleplayer. (if not more)  It also makes it easyer to add NPC's to Multiplayer. 

 

Reason to split the game client and well "server" apart has multiple pros. One is flexibility and scalability. Other ones are the opt in nature of the workload needed to run NPC's. The negative thing is that unless you have a really good PC you might not be able to run it all on one PC.

 

But what do I know the resources needed. But I'm sure low end PC's are not going to handle running something above what it is doing right now. No NPC's. With a possible performance hit from the overhead added with a server having to run for singleplayer idk? But even low end systems should be able to run multiplayer right? So once again a positive thing with server bots being the NPC's. Splitting the game into client / server adds many pros and flexibility. 

 

Added benefit is that multiplayer are given all the improvements from the singleplayer focus on running a server. Co Op. Split screen. Everything gain from the change from a "normal" SP game. No multiplayer there is no Singleplayer. Unless there is something that conflicts with this structure there is nothing bad about it.

 

I remember when Minecraft was in a stage where the Singleplayer got worse a patch or so when being turned into a sudo multiplayer. But before that Multiplayer was so broken as development was split into 2 modes SP/MP and everything was complicated. After that change in development Minecraft started it popularity boom. Just saying XD  

 

PS: RIP boats and animals :c

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3 hours ago, Turbo50 said:

 1----By that I mean worth the time invested to get to that point. Just how hard it is for a player to stay alive in the game makes AI survivor's so hard to even think to be possible. They have not the same goals as a real human do. They are smart but not human simply. Resources used to make "NPC's" are better used to flesh out the brain dead. Or anything really. Pre game lore, Fort Knox. Name it.

 

2----For a AI to live in this world and have a base or loot houses means A: They are cheating to stay alive B: They stupidly die fast after spawning in.  And how are they going to even work in a world that only load the place that the player is currently at? Like there is just no way to make NPC's work outside of meta events or having a server running with AI multiplayer clients roaming around. 

 

3----Performance problems singe-player and the possibilities of them doing stupid things to ruin the immersion just out way what multiplayer can bring to the game in comparison. 

And if we say that we have a group of survivor to tell what they should do it is even more impotent that they do not screw up. And it kinda feels wrong to have any trading or anything really in the Single player.  Why? Simple. Being alone in this doomed world with very realistic systems of fatigue and looting  really is what makes it work.  Having the game turn into State of Decay is not really what this game is all about. (unless multiplayer)  "This is how YOU died"  Not how "WE" died.

 

4----Some raider attacks or insane ppl late game? No. That is silly. The world is dead emptiness and isolation or what I think more like the feeling of everything is doomed should not be broken like walking dead did.  It should be rare to find a living human in Single player.  And if you do one should be afraid not due to them being evil raiders. But because they are humans. We are evil and untrustworthy on our own.  ;) 

 

Not being rude, but if you could please fully read my posts and not skim through them, I already detailed some of these issues already in previous posts.

 

1--- Resource intensive is the word I'm most focused on and worried over. From my first post,I detailed the direction towards almost Sims-like behaviors the developers have as an end goal, is a finnicky route to go down. I'd like for them to be as least resource intensive as possible, while still keeping it feeling fresh and alive. The behaviors they have are basic, but the time and place to which these meta-events occur is what makes it interesting.

 

2--- Not necessarily, I believed every type I listed from first post should be a numbered and rare meta-event, to as I said "prevent premature circumstance" before the player can enjoy the experience and keep it from being a constant occurrence. Not spawning until the player is within certain distance is crucial, as if you have Zombie hearing/sight/smell incredibly high or random structure damage, Shelterbound will be swarmed before you notice it was even there.

 

3--- Them doing stupid things is one of the most important aspect I also covered, strictly one player-bound entity at a time, which follows a simple command structure (I listed in my first post, simple but covers every practical option NUM1-6) it immediately cuts down on an irritable, premature death of your playthrough.

If Trader's supply pool were hardcoded to be low/realistic, I personally think would still be interesting. But that's opinion. Also offering up an option of killing and robbing, doing so should depress your character. Small things like this that drastically change your PMC(playermadecharacter), while keeping NPCs simple, and uncomplex for the most part.

 

4--- I do agree that's somewhat silly, and not for the reasons you've listed, but because Zombies will be too big a hurdle for them depending on their Lore you set yourself. I didn't imply raider attacks as you texted, but as a roaming meta-event or shelterbound meta-event. Where you the player can choose to attack/visit this hostile/trader building, or the opposite, this roaming meta-event where it's forced upon you, and gives you genuine fear when face to face with it wherever you are. I'd like to also say again, I think they should be rare!

 

2 hours ago, Turbo50 said:

Added benefit is that multiplayer are given all the improvements from the singleplayer focus on running a server. Co Op. Split screen. Everything gain from the change from a "normal" SP game. No multiplayer there is no Singleplayer. Unless there is something that conflicts with this structure there is nothing bad about it.

 

It seemed from the beginning these NPCs could be set as a way to bridge the gap between SP and MP, between the two the human population seems very vastly different.

 

And in saying this, there are very creative ways you can reuse pieces of tools/assets/pre-existing code to optimize it fairly enough to where it can run even on MP. I don't know how well they optimized their code in terms of length and run-time, but running as meta-events, I personally think will handle perfectly fine on either platform.

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16 hours ago, Sveedur. said:

1--- Resource intensive is the word I'm most focused on and worried over. From my first post,I detailed the direction towards almost Sims-like behaviors the developers have as an end goal

 

I'd like for them to be as least resource intensive as possible, while still keeping it feeling fresh and alive. The behaviors they have are basic, but the time and place to which these meta-events occur is what makes it interesting.

 

2--- Not necessarily, I believed every type I listed from first post should be a numbered and rare meta-event, to as I said "prevent premature circumstance" before the player can enjoy the experience and keep it from being a constant occurrence. Not spawning until the player is within certain distance is crucial, as if you have Zombie hearing/sight/smell incredibly high or random structure damage, Shelterbound will be swarmed before you notice it was even there.

 

3--- Them doing stupid things is one of the most important aspect I also covered, strictly one player-bound entity at a time. NUM1-6) it immediately cuts down on an irritable, premature death of your playthrough.

If Trader's supply pool were hardcoded to be low/realistic.

 

4--- I do agree that's somewhat silly, and not for the reasons you've listed, but because Zombies will be too big a hurdle for them depending on their Lore you set yourself. I didn't imply raider attacks as you texted, but as a roaming meta-event or shelterbound meta-event. Where you the player can choose to attack/visit this hostile/trader building, or the opposite.

 

I personally think will handle perfectly fine on either platform.

Meta event is just that. A event. This are RARE. This are scripted. This are place specific. Not much more then a glorified scripted event that do not add fundamental changes to the HOLE experience. 

 

Look back when the first versions where shown where there was allot of sims going around in the map and suddenly a Z appears. It was quite fun to watch the sims 1 be bitten by Z's. You an allot of survivors was present on day 1. You and everyone else watched the begging of the worlds end. 

 

Unless they are all meant to die fast a good npc system is needed. And need to show being active off screen. Why I talk about bots like players on a server. There need to be a dynamic force like multiplayer bring. Making the world lived in.

 

There are extremes one way our a outer. Meta and full on NPC's I mean.

 

So there need to be talked about in the broad spectrum. Yes? Not trying to imply anything is down right wrong or bad outside of the extremes. We do not need Sims 1. But something like it.

 

 

I just hope that we do not end up with something that feels like (spawn in) survivors. And yea you are talking about meta stuff but that is not hard or that special really. But to have anything like npc's survive months? Yea that is cool to run into. Find them dead? Cool. Run into them and pull a gun on them? Cool.

 

Better multiplayer where it is not just a sandbox with re spawning loot. Where you do not have the problem of player interest. Just role play goodness.

 

Meta event is good but any real npc needs to be alive from day 1. (or feel lite it) Kill not hole towns and be good and healthy addition to the Z lore. Making stuff dynamic and optional. Dam the hardware requirements. But ofc you need to pay for it in hardware and complexity.

 

And I was not talking direct to you 🙃. Even the dev team is reading this conversation. 

I just mean that any human is worse then any hoard in this new world. Trading is kinda of a no go. Raider groups are also unlikely to attack one survivor when the hole world has undefended resources. 

 

You need to make something like a sims npc that makes a mess. Loot stuff and so on. But for that something have to give.

 

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On 3/5/2020 at 2:30 AM, Sveedur. said:

The main goal of TIS is for in-depth, and complex mechanics - almost Sims like, except without literally mind controlling them to do what you want; having them form relationships, scavenging for supplies on their own, and even potentially having their own sets of personalities that will effect their attitudes and decision making.

 

From here I introduce 3 types 

 

The Bandit

 

The Trader

 

The Lore-focused Survivor 

 

From here, you'll have newly assigned keys from which you can command this NPC 

 

Things don't have to be complex to be an immersive quality, especially when it comes to implementing rational NPCs, which can be the most taxing for older computers - needing to update and keep track of these things on the fly. Sometimes less is more, and adding these lesser complex features than initially planned, I believe will make all the difference. I'm also open to elaborating more on anything I've written here, as I've already typed in quite a mouthful already.

 

I'm interested in hearing what everyone thinks on the subject, and thank you for reading

 

The Bandit

Theses are Military in late game. If due to the government told them or because they are Military bandits. Automated weaponry and military vehicles and helicopters. 

Flamethrowers. mid game going around and litting everyone and anything on fire in the zone. But still not bandits. But in late game they turn into bandits, yes?

Early games scouting the area with the heli and snipers on the border controls.  

 

Ofc there are the odd bandit that kill on sight. But Very rare. More likely just a friendly NPC that turn on you to steal everything you have.

 

The Trader

 

No. The only way to survive is isolated and making no noise. (isolated in city = not seen) To see any other survivor should end in a gun vs gun standoff where no one trust the outer. Not shooting each other but no way you let anyone close enough to trade.   So anyone trying to build a safe haven is going to fail. Unless late game or VERY strong place on the map (prison?) But hey if you think someone can set up shop and not focus there time on scavenging or farming be my quest. Last thing you are going to do is set up shop for the 10s of living in a world full of deadly Z's. Sure some random S.T.A.L.K.E.R Russian is going to exist lol. Trading with bullets XD

 

Remember this is not Fallout where there has been like 100 years since the end of the world.  Everyone is just trying to adjust to this new world. 

 

The Lore-focused Survivor 

 

Right. So we are meant to run around trying to find our first companion? Going to make fun of you on your expense. Please I'm just trying to be real here.

 

Npc: Ho is it?

P: Your new master.

Npc: O right.

P: I take this from you.

Npc:

P: Here. Carry this.

Npc.

P: I take this from you.

Npc: Can I have my hat back.

P:

Npc:

(Npc:12 Died from Z)

P: Damit. Next

 

Experienced Fallout player talking.

And this Lore-focused Survivor  is just basically Co Op.  A real player is just better. Just that they have to take the game seriously. Like the idea otherwise. Might be the only way to make something like trading work SP?

 

 

The reality is that outside of meta events you can not make a cheap NPC system. The SP is screen oriented. (good for player performance) Back when the game was first shown off the hole world was simulated. (like a server + player client do today) I still think having fake multiplayer free up the needed complexity with allot of benefits. It gives a good way to have Co Op and this meta events + some roaming survivor making the game very alive full of dead'z. I even think some players do not want any other human alive actually. Making the game more into a nightmare Z fest. 

 

I think the best NPC's are going to be military and animals. Ofc also the Z's. Why I'm agenst the NPC being focust on. This is totally doable with what the game is right now. Normal SP and all. And on top of that the rare Meta events your talking about. But rather think this should be made into the sims NPC's for the long term positives. 

 

If it has to be Sims like NPC's. (I think this would be a good thing for the game overall)  good ones is crucial. But one has to understand what it takes. And why it is not worth the effort to put all work into it today. But in YEARS 🙄 Devs are probably doing a grate job at this right now most likely. But not talking much about it. Laying the ground with animals and military or whatever is the good and right approach. And I hope to the Raccoons that they are making it multiplayer doable. No reason to make SP content that needs to be ported to a multiplayer setting. 

 

Approaching NPC's like they are multiplayer are grate as long as the server and programming can handle it. On the players client it is as performance heavy as a real player was playing the game. (but it is AI,NPC a BOTy!) Problem lies in the server load and programming problems. Client and server is 101 when it comes to a game like this with the complexity and multiplayer work put into it.

 

The player only have to run the process and render stuff that multiplayer game with real players would have.  Just to make it clear to anyone wondering or getting confused by why the endless talk about servers. Not saying it is cheap to run on your own machine or easy to program. Just making it absolutely clear that anyone with a potato can still find use with NPC's.

 

Can we maybe talk more about the fun stuff? Like military going about and flame trowing Z's in the streets? Or the border snipers? MMmm.

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the NPC will be coming. FAR too much time has been spent by Lemmy getting them right, acting and behaving the way TIS want and in a manner consistent with George Romero Lore, which is the games Lore.

 

unsure why you think raiders and insane people would be outside the scope of possibility. too me, that sounds quite possible.

fact is, their are people who would rather use their guns and physical advantages to just take what others have saved, rather than actually loot themselves. and i mean in Real Life. throw in a Zombie Apocalypse and people would change, in some it may be literally overnight. in others, they may have just been waiting for a reason to go nuts and start stabbing, shooting and killing everything in sight. then you have the ones who are so scared shitless, they may accidentally kill you if you approach from the wrong side while they have a gun and they just squeeze the trigger without checking if you are "alive" or Zombie.

 

as for insanity....try to truly imagine the horrors you would witness each day. even the strongest mind just needs a little push, something that mind just cannot fathom, and  over the edge we go into Insanity.

 

and lets not forget the "real" possibility that a cooperative group of players and NPC has their base swarmed when a damn helicopter leads a horde to them. now these people just lost everything, and will need to restock/resupply with whatever they can find. this kind of thing could easily lead to a formerly friendly group turning to raiding tactics, if only to survive one more day, eat one more meal.

 

NPC have been a target for a long time. no way TIS is just going to say screw it, and throw away all the code that has been written for them.

instead of getting worked up over what MAY happen, just keep waiting with the rest of us and we will all find out together how it all plays out.

 

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I for one would love to see NPCs that for what i can tell, are not been mentioned so far

 

I want strugglers. what is a struggler? a struggler is a NPC with a sole purpose in the game, to die. To die and turn into a zombie. That's it, nothing more.

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3 hours ago, crisius said:

I for one would love to see NPCs that for what i can tell, are not been mentioned so far

NPCs will be dropped into the game from build 42, starting with hunting (3D roaming animals etc)
Roadmap:
Roadmap.PNG.1ed6f6b311cde7af6e59a656aa096e7a.PNG

Animal preview:
NqaVrv1.gif

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On 3/22/2020 at 12:52 AM, MadDan2013 said:


Roadmap.PNG.1ed6f6b311cde7af6e59a656aa096e7a.PNG

Animal preview:
NqaVrv1.gif

 

Yes. I loved seeing that preview. Made me really think that animals really was the way forward as it adds life back to the world for a reasonable beggining to the 3th element. (why I was saying that was the priority over human NPC's)

 

0th. Lore

1th. Player

2th. Zomboid

3th. Other. 

 

P.s. Life is a Bitch. IRL first. Forum can wait. 😕

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On 3/12/2020 at 6:31 PM, syfy said:

the NPC will be coming. FAR too much time has been spent by Lemmy getting them right, acting and behaving the way TIS want and in a manner consistent with George Romero Lore, which is the games Lore.

 

Throw in a Zombie Apocalypse and people would change, in some it may be literally overnight. in others, they may have just been waiting for a reason to go nuts and start stabbing, shooting and killing everything in sight. then you have the ones who are so scared shitless, they may accidentally kill you if you approach from the wrong side while they have a gun and they just squeeze the trigger without checking if you are "alive" or Zombie.

 

as for insanity....try to truly imagine the horrors you would witness each day. even the strongest mind just needs a little push, something that mind just cannot fathom, and  over the edge we go into Insanity.

First of.  I have no doth that TIS are making them right. So no one think I'm not believing there capabilities.  Just so everyone is clear on that.  IF nothing else there are grate ppl to help them along like the animations are currently :)

 

AI and NPC's are HARD to make right. (at least the traditional type)  Only good NPC systems are turn based or vehicle kinds. And that is simply due to the complexity dropping or in a turn based system stuff are ideal for AI. Car racing AI is very easy since the track is a known factor. While in a game like PZ they need to be really intelligent and not follow a already planned race track.  Like Minecraft or similar stuff where we have machine learning the AI really can outperform the best players. Speed running Mario with programmed AI also win over any human. Normal chess machines rival the best chess humans in the world. (decades ago)  But game AI is just not there right now.

 

I'm quite sure the rewriting is the problem with TIS NPC's. Not that they trow everything in the garbage bin. But if you rewrite stuff you might have a case to say that they actually do. I'm not surprised if there is no code left from the early days for example.  Or 3 years ago. Just look at what we are talking about here "FAR too much time has been spent by Lemmy getting them right" Yea but that is how HARD NPC's are. Anything else and the NPC's are not worth having.

 

 

And we have to remember that the players have multiple shots at this Zombie Apocalypse. We have a clear advantage over literally everyone. (unless OP NPC's?)

Why I think there would not be many bad guys around is simple. They are not smart enough. Or rather careful enough.  Shoot a gun in the wrong location. Dead. Try and loot the wrong building. Dead. Be crazy and go bananas? Dead. 

 

The mindset of the player that is not in a life threatening situation vs real human that agen, have ONE life in this world?  Majority of humans die shitting themselves. Any craycray die from not trying to be smart about it. Heck I think not to be creepy or anything, but some kid huggers have a better chance in this world vs someone actually ready to kill outer humans just because "fuck the law, let the led fly".  Like you know Dexter? Yea he really would be able handle this new world. Military people also are likely to be able to get there head strait and be smart.

 

The biggest reason I die in PZ is from insanity. I go out with my guns and ready to slaughter. Last time I died from my shoes braking. Bleeding from my feets and trying to deal with that and oops. I died.  Insanity = fast dead. 

 

And really? The odds to meet someone smart enough to survive for any length of time to then shoot a other survivor thinking they are a Z. Unless they fear for their life (most likely in a bad spot already and you as a player know where they are) Melee is the primary weapon. Guns are reserved for stuff hitting the fan or just fun/cleaning. You mean you do not notice a human vs Z?   Sneak 100 and 1 intelligence.  

 

They are careful enough to not accidentally kill someone that is not a Z.  A true survivor in this game do stuff controlled and calmly. Not in a rush. Like in real life fancy glory killing is not logical. Nether is not checking your surrounding and scanning for everything before attacking a Z.

 

And if you show any sign of being alive they are going to pick up on that. If they attack you (why?) they do it on purpose. In fair then they still do in in a controlled and somewhat calculated manner. Human vs human standoff. Yea ok but that is just trigger discipline unless on purpose. If you talking with them and not aiming on them they should not randomly fire a death sentence sound unless they thing that is the best bet of survival. But that is just what I think. If that is in a rush of fair it still is not random.

 

Driving around in a car trying to find human bases? I mean people are going to be safe and loot the non defended houses. In late game yea. But not before months have passed in the game. Even then what humans are left? It is likely they believe the owner is dead. If I was looting a base months after the death of the world, then found that there was a outer survivor still living there? 

 

Heck my first instinct is to GTFO and try and be as FUCKING nice and non threatening as possible. Hoping to not be attack and be friends and show that I'm not trying to harm or steal. The base owner best bet is to kill me. Or else I have the advantage being mobile while he is stuck in a location I know about. 

 

But we are humans and need the socializing. So even if we can not work together speaking with someone really is a nice threat. Really if you are surviving for that long you should know that making outer survivors life harder is just not right. But sure that is person to person thing sadly.

 

____

Now directly reply on a thing. "Swarmed when a damn helicopter".  So what? Whenever I get swarmed I run to a house and eat the food and sleep there for a new days. Then your safe home is kinda safe agen. If everyone in my group would die in that attack so what?

 

My wife and kids are DEAD! They where just strangers. Might I just have learned to NOT trust or be around ANYONE anymore? 

The fuckt up one had been knowing that your family had died already would likely make one very shy of outer humans. After my second one died I had NEVER ever EVER done anything to risk myself agen.  The houses out in the woods are a real thing. That is the safes place you can be at. Away from reality. Away from the old world.

 

In game there are safe houses that have dead ppl inside of them. So that is a sign of a helicopter but no Z's braking down the barricades? Lame. Or they where playing COD Zombies but one was bitten? (magic planks) 

 

 

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