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Nikuksis

Vehicles are overpowered

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Don't you think the vehicles are way too overpowered. 

1st point is using any vehicle as a weapon looks too powerful and unrealistic. 

As of build 40 you can easily drive through the horde at low speed and make the meat steak out of them quite well. This allows you get around 500+ zombie kill literally in 10 minutes, cleaning whole quarters of town, without any significant damage to your vehicle and without any expansive materials. 

 

The second problem is even you decide to avoid zombies, you can easily escape town, and just live at nearby farm, playing some stardew valley/sims, because there will be not a single zed there. 

 

Not sure how it works in B41. The car is moving much slowly through the pile of dead bodies, but it still possible to slash zombies that way. 

Also i think you can hold S and A/D to make your car twist and kill any zombie that will come closer. 

 

I have tried different settings, but it does not affect this moment. You can only disable vehicles completely or make them harder to find, but once you get a car the game quickly turn into GTA and all atmospere just ruins :(

 

Thanks! 

 

PS. Pardon my poor English, it is not my native language. 

 

Edited by Nikuksis

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I think there's some reasonable limitations you could put on unaltered vehicles. One is the tendency for them to get snagged on zombie corpses - we see two instances of this in The Walking Dead.

It looks to me like this is one of the big problems you would have with an everyday vehicle being used in such an environment.

 

Notice how I make the distinction of unaltered vehicles?

8RmIxm1.pngIn the past the developers have teased modifications to cars where they could be retrofitted with attachments that make them more suited toward the role of a zed-killing machine.

 

As of now however, I agree that they should be nerfed in certain ways, one of which is what I mentioned above.

Edited by 𝚎𝚒𝚐𝚎𝚗𝚐𝚛𝚊𝚞

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Weird. I have the opposite experience. Unless I'm really going fast it seems like running over a zombie has something like a 1 in 4 chance of actually killing them in the first hit. Also, when I drive through even as little as about 8 of them I lose much of my speed and low speeds rarely seem to actually kill them, not to mention it damages the vehicle over time.

 

But.. I mean, isn't that what should happen? Cars are heavy, rigid, and go can move fast. Zombies also have no self preservation so just take the hits full on without trying to dodge or roll. Seems pretty accurate that you should be able to plow through them. In fact I'd wager it would take a lot more people to stop a vehicle moving in reality than it does in game.

Edited by BoogieMan
typo

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Well, to kill hordes you should not "hit them hard", but you can push them to the ground, and then stand on them for a second to kill. That does not hurt your vehicle and can kill multiple zeds simultaneously. 

 

I think the vehicle should stuck without any chance to move if it stands over zombies. Like it is on the videos above.

And if you drive at some speed through the dead bodies it should inflict some damage to your car. 

That seems much more real and balanced to me. 

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Well, I did some tests with different builds and game modes. And it seems like it mostly broken in the multiplayer B40. When i tried to drive through the horde in singleplayer it does not work as it does in multiplayer.

 

But in singleplayer game you can still rotate your vehicle and kill zombies with hits. I've seen this frequently in the twitch streams.


 

The most "broken" behavior we can see in the Build 40 multiplayer:

 

 Here's sample video for build 41:

 

 

And how it works in Build 40 singleplayer:

 

 

In the build 41 we can see the significant improvements int he vehicle physics, it will turn over (but somehow back up sometimes :) ), but it still can be used as cheap weapon to kills large amounts of zombies. Considering the fact that in B41 it is much more difficult to kill zombies yourself it still ruins the balance of game in my opinion.

 

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19 minutes ago, Pandorea said:

Ruins your car as well ;)

I haven't noticed any significant damage to the car. In the top video i did check the state of the car after ~200 kills, and it was mostly 100%, not sure the initial state of this car there.

Even if it does, the car is easier to repair/ find new one then melee weapons.

Consider the danger of melee fight and killing speed.

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On 2/18/2020 at 12:52 AM, BoogieMan said:

Weird. I have the opposite experience. Unless I'm really going fast it seems like running over a zombie has something like a 1 in 4 chance of actually killing them in the first hit. Also, when I drive through even as little as about 8 of them I lose much of my speed and low speeds rarely seem to actually kill them, not to mention it damages the vehicle over time.

 

But.. I mean, isn't that what should happen? Cars are heavy, rigid, and go can move fast. Zombies also have no self preservation so just take the hits full on without trying to dodge or roll. Seems pretty accurate that you should be able to plow through them. In fact I'd wager it would take a lot more people to stop a vehicle moving in reality than it does in game.

try to stomp on a deer or two with a car and come back lol

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Well, I feel like if I were driving a 1500 model truck or heavier duty, moving through a decent sized horde wouldn't be impossible. Especially with 4x4. However if you're driving a car with lower clearance in the suspension and a 4 cylinder motor like a Honda (or like a few models of in game cars,) you wouldn't be able to run a lot of zeds over without getting stuck or inflicting serious damage to the vehicle. I do feel like hitting a body at high speed no matter what you're driving is going to do a lot worse than crack your head light like I've experienced in game.

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I strongly agree that vehicles are OP - not in a combat sense, but general survival, exploration and looting. The only significant risks to using them are that they can attract a horde (which can be used to your advantage in many circumstances), and/or damaging the car to the point its engine refuses to start potentially stranding you.
I think degradation should be a bit more severe, or have more factors to consider. Potholes on the road, weather conditions compromising handling, different surfaces affecting degradation. Engine condition affecting the consistency of acceleration, top speed and fuel consumption. More breakdowns and types thereof, chance of which increases as components degrade. Having to deal with engine/oil temperature would add greater depth to the actual use of a vehicle, ie it won't be able to maintain max performance under sustained use. Weight of passengers/cargo contributing to fuel consumption and tyre wear.

Right now they allow you to traverse the map with practical impunity for as long as you have fuel, keys (or the ability to hotwire), avoid the most dense zombie populations and avoid crashing.

As for using them to kill zombies, I feel like they should preserve more momentum, but recieve more damage at higher speeds, particularly for lighter vehicles. Currently the biggest danger from running zeds over isn't from the damage caused by the impact, but how much easier it makes it for surrounding zombies to overwhelm the vehicle by the degree to which hitting one slows you, and I feel like the reverse should be closer to true instead.

Edited by Morbo513

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Car are grossly overpowered, there's no other way to describe them. 1993 IRL cars could not withstand such harassment you see in the game, the engine would incurr in failure almost immediatly, navigation and steering aswell, immediate failure on impact, extremely hindered visual, almost to a complete blindness; if a windshield cracks it shatters in way that's almost impenetrable to see through. or if you are "lucky" then the windshield simply disintegrates on impact with the first zombie, leaving a door size opening right into your passenger seat, for you to accomodate the very next zombie that rolls over the hood flopping right into the cockpit, the very place where your tender flesh is, ready to be snacked on

Same goes for door's windshields, maybe a tiny bit more resilient than the windshield, since the force imprinted by the zombies themselves would be much less than a car crash impact, but still, glass is not the most resilient material, 3or 4 zombies banging their heads against it, it wouldn't take long for it to explode in your face

 

another point is the amount of splatter and mushed zombies that would accumulate on the terrain. we can see 20, 30 zombies corpses being run over and kept being run over. the grip of the tires would eventually become to a near zero, making it impossible for the car to push against 4-5 zombies in the front and in the back, resulting in a full stop, leaving the car at complete disposal of the horde ammassed around, to bepicked and opened like a can of sardines

 

with that being said, the natural outcome would be a survivor that would modify his/her car to make it more durable and resilient to impact, as 𝚎𝚒𝚐𝚎𝚗𝚐𝚛𝚊𝚞 mentioned, modified vehicles are very likely to appear in a world populated by zombies

Edited by crisius
some stuff

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The cars are OP. If you make them OP. Or think cars are not good at killing humAns. 

 

The OP factor is that they are so quite. Any Z that hear a engine running in what looks like a empty city will go all in and group up on you.  But with even the loud noise cars you can sneak by most Z.  But hey....

 

The car upgrade image. (nice model) is just not going to do anything but harm.  Well the windscreen is a good ide.  (quite high skill level need for that kind of metal work) it is just not enough.  Imagen a Z flying into that thing and it is going to dent in. Side windows are very fine. Good visibility and protection for someone just trying to claw there way in.

 

Like the wheel plates are hindering the front wheel from turning to begin with XD 

I like to turn my way from having to hit anything thank you very much! 

The back wheel plate do nothing but making it impossible to change tire or fix a Z getting stuck. Front armor is blocking the hood. So if you brake something good luck repairing the car.  The plate blocking Z from getting under the front is also questionable as the car is still going to run over the Z on the ground.  Having a cowcatcher welded to the frame to take the brunt force is a good ide. Not like headlights are worth a dam. But the radiator really needs help to stop Z from crashing into it.

 

 

Do not know where your from. But in Scandinavian we have Moose and animals that sadly are hit by cars. Cars win. Trucks do not care.(lorry) 

Even a Moose have a fight against the windscreen.  Now yea 1993 cars had less protective windscreens. But they sure is going to withstand the second impact of hitting a human in most cases. And give or take the in game system in place it is accurate. A bit to strong but nothing to complain about.  IF it is destroyed yes there should be a real risk of Z getting into the car and bite ya! 

 

And what fool is saying that cars do not handle hitting Z's? Yea the radiator is going out quite fast together with the lights and windscreen. I trust this 1993 cars over today's crap plastic and electric mess hitting Z's over and over.   They are still metal vs things that are standing on 2 shoes. Having a lorry in the game and your set for life. They are grate head crushers. Do not ask me why I know that.  Story I was told is not pleasant. Vehicles are not fun and games. They are dangerous. 

 

Z are going to go under or over the the cars. And since allot of the time they fly up and ricochet the slanted roof of the car they are not slowing the car down that much.  Not allot of Z is going to go under the car when driving towards Z's.  They fall over the front and then slide to the side and hit the ground. (or over the roof if going fast)

 

The clearance of a average car is just not there to allow driving over a Z without making contact with the cars under body.  But most Z are not going there. Unless you have a Z fall to the ground and then drove over. If that is the case slow downs are quite dramatic and damage also. But not 10 Zombies and you are stuck with a broken car. 

 

If nothing else with speed the under-body of the car might just slide over the Z. doing the most possible damage to drive train, exhaust and fuel tank. The suspension being hit yea will fast wear and steering will not be happy.  But I can fully promise you that it will take quite a few hits before the suspension fails. More likely the fuel tank or some fuel line will brake first. Something that is just not going to withstand the impact of the Z. I rather let the wheels take the hits as not trying to hit the wheel I know vital weak things are taking the damage. Wheels and suspension is NOT weak.

 

Due to the lack of clearance the car will have to pass over the Z and by that lose speed and it is going to take damage over time doing that. But not THAT much so you can not still make it to your destination with a fresh car.  Day after day doing this? No. Then do not do it! Be careful with the car and do not abuse the system? Even if you was able to put on extra metal on the front of the car the under body will not last.  So do not run into Z???? OK? It is just a game. So improvements might be needed. But to say strait up that cars are OP is wrong. (outside of the noise) They are just not taking enough damage and people are also abusing them to kill hoards. 

 

Edited by Turbo50

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This conversation confuses me. Why do you think there are like a 1.5 billion cars in the world? Because they are super useful. They travel fast and can store a lot of stuff. That's just their inherent properties.

 

A 2,500 - 3,000 pound fast moving rigid object is going to be powerful. Low speed collisions against soft objects like people doesn't cause much beyond cosmetic damage. Broken lights, damaged hoods, grills, windshields and side view mirrors probably won't last long, but as far as damage that actually would make the car start failing? That's going to take a lot of repeated use. The most concerning damage would probably be the loss of a windshield and radiator damage. Blasting something at relatively high speeds is going to cause a lot of cosmetic damage, but the car will likely still drive fine. This is also in 1993, there are more cars made of mostly steel in this time period as opposed to plastics and lighter weight metals that we use today.

 

Most large american cars would plow through large numbers of zombies fairly easily since most of them will probably be tossed to the sides or over the top, humans are top heavy and zombies aren't bracing themselves or preparing for the collision in any way since they have no self preservation. Larger trucks with a high underside clearance would do even better. Zombies aren't going to stop a car unless they are in massive tightly packed hordes and it would help if it was on dirt, and not pavement. On pavement, a car has a lot of grip on the ground and can apply it's power, weight, and friction advantage. Overall it would vary highly depending on the type of vehicle. Small cheap four cylinder cars can be held in place by as few as four people, if they have thick enough rope secured to it and are properly prepared and bracing for it, and the driver doesn't slam on the gas and instead eases up. With their hands? I'm sure it would take more. But even a medium sized simple pickup truck can take upwards of 16 people to stop it from moving. Again, people with a good grip rope secured to the vehicle who know how to brace their bodies and are all working in unison. A feat zombies could never match. The only advantage zombies would have (if you ignore the fact it would be impossible) is that they presumably don't get tired.

 

 

What exactly is the intended goal here? What do you really want? Unrealistically and frustrating brittle cars that become a source of constant tedium and frustration? Loud cars that aggro everything in the city like it had no muffler? Cars in game are more or less inferior to cars in reality already. Especially handling and breaking. They already can carry less stuff (and for some of the vehicles WAYYYY less) than cars in reality could, other than some of the larger (but unrealistically light) items like furniture, appliances, and generators, but that's a needed gameplay adjustment. 

 

The only solid way that I really see them over performing is the windshield. That would probably break pretty quickly and then you'd have zombies in your face. Using metalworking to weld a bunch of vertical metal bars is what you'd want to do, or a large sheet with view parts large enough to see, but too small to be very dangerous. Bar the radiator too. You'd want a police car that is probably already reinforced, extra heavy, and has one of those big metal bumpers and bar the windows. That or a big truck.

Edited by BoogieMan

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I'd prefer more options to the vehicles settings at least. For example ability to make them only damaged, so it will be a big job to find some spare parts and repair one. So it will require much more time and skills for that reward. 

Not pick up several cars in a first day of survival and drive away even in hard settings. 

 

If you have to spend several ingame weeks/months to get a car, probably, you will not be interested in plowing hordes with it. 

 

Currently we can set something like this with erosion functionality, making all batteries in cars dead, but it will also affect a lot of other things. 

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On 3/7/2020 at 4:08 PM, BoogieMan said:

This conversation confuses me. Why do you think there are like a 1.5 billion cars in the world? Because they are super useful. They travel fast and can store a lot of stuff. That's just their inherent properties.

 

A 2,500 - 3,000 pound fast moving rigid object is going to be powerful. Low speed collisions against soft objects like people doesn't cause much beyond cosmetic damage. Broken lights, damaged hoods, grills, windshields and side view mirrors probably won't last long, but as far as damage that actually would make the car start failing? That's going to take a lot of repeated use. The most concerning damage would probably be the loss of a windshield and radiator damage. Blasting something at relatively high speeds is going to cause a lot of cosmetic damage, but the car will likely still drive fine. This is also in 1993, there are more cars made of mostly steel in this time period as opposed to plastics and lighter weight metals that we use today.

 

Most large american cars would plow through large numbers of zombies fairly easily since most of them will probably be tossed to the sides or over the top, humans are top heavy and zombies aren't bracing themselves or preparing for the collision in any way since they have no self preservation. Larger trucks with a high underside clearance would do even better. Zombies aren't going to stop a car unless they are in massive tightly packed hordes and it would help if it was on dirt, and not pavement. On pavement, a car has a lot of grip on the ground and can apply it's power, weight, and friction advantage. Overall it would vary highly depending on the type of vehicle. Small cheap four cylinder cars can be held in place by as few as four people, if they have thick enough rope secured to it and are properly prepared and bracing for it, and the driver doesn't slam on the gas and instead eases up. With their hands? I'm sure it would take more. But even a medium sized simple pickup truck can take upwards of 16 people to stop it from moving. Again, people with a good grip rope secured to the vehicle who know how to brace their bodies and are all working in unison. A feat zombies could never match. The only advantage zombies would have (if you ignore the fact it would be impossible) is that they presumably don't get tired.

 

 

What exactly is the intended goal here? What do you really want? Unrealistically and frustrating brittle cars that become a source of constant tedium and frustration? Loud cars that aggro everything in the city like it had no muffler? Cars in game are more or less inferior to cars in reality already. Especially handling and breaking. They already can carry less stuff (and for some of the vehicles WAYYYY less) than cars in reality could, other than some of the larger (but unrealistically light) items like furniture, appliances, and generators, but that's a needed gameplay adjustment. 

 

The only solid way that I really see them over performing is the windshield. That would probably break pretty quickly and then you'd have zombies in your face. Using metalworking to weld a bunch of vertical metal bars is what you'd want to do, or a large sheet with view parts large enough to see, but too small to be very dangerous. Bar the radiator too. You'd want a police car that is probably already reinforced, extra heavy, and has one of those big metal bumpers and bar the windows. That or a big truck.

What I want is for indiestone to have made the smart decision several years ago and not try to add working cars to the game. They could have easily justified it in lore as something something zombie bacteria something something consumes petroleum at an incredible rate.

They could have added so many other features if they were not hell bent on straining the engine to its limits.

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1992's cars were much, much more resilient than modern cars, with hardened steel frames and thick sheet metal bodies. A muscle car, van or pickup truck from that time could trivially, easily obliterate a line of zombies and come out nearly unscathed. Older cars were even tougher, and since the map is rural Kentucky, most cars would be from the earlier decade.

 

Maybe you didn't tweak the settings enough. Crank up vehicle zombie attraction multiplier, car damage on impact, damage to player on crash and set general car condition to very low. Give yourself Speed Demon for good measure and driving vehicles will be more dangerous than fighting a horde of sprinters.

 

Like Boogie said, cars made the game more dynamic and gave us more options. You don't need to stay confined to a town building your base forever ad nauseum, you can explore the whole map without falling asleep on the keyboard running from place to place for hours. 

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I'm fine with cars themselves, but i just hope that B41 multiplayer cars will work same as singleplayer at least(look for current MP buggy behavior above) , and possible will be more options to the vehicles, so it will be harder to obtain one. 

And, as it was duscussed in other topic, i think rural houses should be a bit more dangerous, some zombie invasions will take place, so you cant feel completely safe when you are 5 minutes away from town. 

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