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Zombies are broken

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after the recent update to the zombies that are more than 10 tiles away, they have been spotting me from 15+ tiles away.
i tested this while streaming with my viewers, and while i gave myself 10sneaking and lightfooted they where still seeing me from 15+ tiles away.

i even lowered their view/smell/hearing to LOW and they still see me from 15 tiles away. Others have also come ask me about it and i told them that i suspected this was an issue but i wasnt sure until i tested it.

 

PS: this makes any playthrough with alot of zombies almost unplayable. since they always see us no matter what. Ive even had some playthroughs where i get spotted instantly from walking out my door.

Edited by PBL

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I'd be okay with being easily spotted when running, but lower chance of being spotted when walking and sneaking.

Edited by Geras

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It is quite some view distance now. Is it a bug or what? I mean this deadz should not be able to spot the different of a Z or human from this distances. Running on the outer hand should make Z go after you as they react to sounds/smell/movement out of the normal. It feels like something is funky even with 41.27.

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Personal opinion here, but from my personal plays I don't see how a player character who is in view of a zombie basically across the street *wouldn't* catch the zombies attention?

Sneaking and lightfooted has no impact on their ability to *see* you?

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39 minutes ago, Caturday said:

I like new changes.
It was a clear BS when zombos not able to see u within 10 yards.

Meme walking.

 

I'm sorry dude but being able to be spotted as soon as you exit your house with lvl 10 sneaking is a bit BS. I don't think this is intended. I think this is probably a bug resulting from the recent tampering they did with zombie awareness. 

 

It might be cool changes for someone who plays with practically no zombies but increase the difficulty ever so slightly and you will find it unplayable. Can't even get in front of a window in sneak mode without 5-6 zombies running towards you. 

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- Fixed zombies farther away than 10 squares having a negative chance to spot the player.

 

This was the bug that was fixed.   Do you feel this might be a case of you simply not being used to zombies actually noticing you when they should? 

image.png

I'm walking from one side of the street to the other and they still don't notice me. This is just one of many tests to see when zombies start to notice me simply walking around.

So far I haven't seen zombies notice anything they shouldn't. Level 10 sneaking is not a guarantee that a zombie will not see you.

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1 hour ago, nasKo said:

Personal opinion here, but from my personal plays I don't see how a player character who is in view of a zombie basically across the street *wouldn't* catch the zombies attention?

Sneaking and lightfooted has no impact on their ability to *see* you?

To this, I ask you this. In real life, if you were looking at your phone or staring in the distance, would it be possible for a person to sneak up on you or past you without you noticing? Now take zombies who have decayed senses and you'll find the answer to your question. 

 

Realism is cool and all but this is a game and it has to remain fun. Zombies shouldn't be running towards you from across a field if you are highly skilled in the arts of stealth. 

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17 minutes ago, nasKo said:

- Fixed zombies farther away than 10 squares having a negative chance to spot the player.

 

This was the bug that was fixed.   Do you feel this might be a case of you simply not being used to zombies actually noticing you when they should? 

image.png

I'm walking from one side of the street to the other and they still don't notice me. This is just one of many tests to see when zombies start to notice me simply walking around.

So far I haven't seen zombies notice anything they shouldn't. Level 10 sneaking is not a guarantee that a zombie will not see you.

 

We tested it on stream yesterday and it was absolutely absurd. For a main PZ streamer, who streams this game every day for 5-10 hours at a time, to decide that a game is unplayable, it means that there's a problem there. 

 

Edit : Might as well remove the sneaking and the lightfooted skills since they have no impact whatsoever on player detection. Why even have them?

 

Edit 2 : Goes back to what I was saying. What is that picture? Builder mode? There's practically no zombies there. You're a very far distance away from them. If you play on any higher zombie population, you wouldnt be able to blink before 10-15 zombies would be on you. As OP said, we even tried reducing their awareness and it did nothing. Zombies on low perception can still spot you with maxed out stealth from up to 26 tiles away. Ridiculous. 

Edited by Koester

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But what if they’re not decomposed? That’s the problem with bringing your own head-cannon into things. It might not be accurate.

 

Post a snippet from the Steam so that we can judge it ourselves if there’s a bug or just a difference of opinion or poor technique.

 

We have those traits to limit the noise the player makes, allowing you to sneak around a zombie when you’re not in their line of sight. They don’t make the character invisible. Inconspicuous will lower the spot chance, however.

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14 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

But what if they’re not decomposed? That’s the problem with bringing your own head-cannon into things. It might not be accurate.

 

Post a snippet from the Steam so that we can judge it ourselves if there’s a bug or just a difference of opinion or poor technique.

 

We have those traits to limit the noise the player makes, allowing you to sneak around a zombie when you’re not in their line of sight. They don’t make the character invisible. Inconspicuous will lower the spot chance, however.

 

That is quite a statement but understandable. Here is your snippet. A clip. I will let PBL provide the proof of his choice. I lost about 3 characters in that same stream to this problem and  decided to just give up on the game altogether until a patch was issued. 

 

 

I'm a fairly competent player, I'll have you know. I'm all for making the game a bit more challenging but there are limits. 

 

Here's what my chat thought about what they were seeing. 

 

 

Untitled.png

Edited by Koester

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My picture was from debug mode, where I tried to specifically test the detection range of zombies.

To the video: The first zombie was already walking (they do that to relocate). You were in line of sight so he noticed you.

Edit: Going frame by frame it might not have been already walking but definitely had line of sight. 

The second zombie (behind the first) noticed too, because you were in LOS. He turns towards you by playing the slow turn animation.

 

This doesn't look like something that shouldn't happen to me, personally. I'd kind of expect the first zombie to see me 100%. The second one behind it definitely isn't out of the ordinary. 

Especially considering there was no sneaking involved. The character just waltzed out in brought daylight and the zombies that had LOS reacted. I don't see them all reacting, just the ones that would make sense to me (LOS).

Entirely possible there's something to balance here, but I'm not convinced that video shows something that shouldn't happen.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, nasKo said:

My picture was from debug mode, where I tried to specifically test the detection range of zombies.

To the video: The first zombie was already walking (they do that to relocate). You were in line of sight so he noticed you.

The second zombie (behind the first) noticed too, because you were in LOS. He turns towards you by playing the slow turn animation.

 

This doesn't look like something that shouldn't happen to me, personally. I'd kind of expect the first zombie to see me. The second one behind it definitely isn't out of the ordinary. 

Especially considering there was no sneaking involved. The character just waltzed out.

 

 

 

 

 

Well hopefully the devs don't agree with you otherwise RIP my favourite game ever. 

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In the start menu you select apocalypse mode and it says "stealth focus, combat better avoided". I tried a character with no skills on steal an zombies detect me from far away, then i try a character with burglar skills and inscompicuos and there is no evident difference between the two characters, there is no way to be stealth and avoid combat with zombies. Im ok if u wanna leave it like that i have more than 800 hrs into the game i can handle it, but new players will not have a chance and will drop the game immediately for sure. I hope u can make more test on it.

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I don't see anything wrong neither in what you provided there nor in part of your stream, they shoudl totally see you, you clearly never went on sprinters who had better cognition, the one that is now shared by regular zeds -> this is how it is supposed  to be because they were quite close and totally coudl see you.

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As far as the usefulness of sneaking goes: In my current game - which I started a couple versions back, don't know if that makes a difference - with the Inconspicuous and graceful perks and level 0 sneaking they detect me from about 10-12 tiles away while I'm sneaking, with clear line of sight, out in the open in broad daylight.

I think that's pretty good for level 0 sneaking, and they detect me from at least double that distance without sneaking so it definitely makes a difference.

 

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From PBL's stream we did find that zombies see a player that's crouching behind a fence. 
 


RJ saw it and is gonna check out the code tomorrow to see if it could have been a case of the zombies smelling the player. 

If so, I'd personally say the smell range would feel a bit high in that case.

I hope we didn't come across as brushing this away, by the way. 
It was just that the footage we've been shown in this thread didn't contain any sneaking and even if Koester's video did, I don't think I would agree that zombies wouldn't notice a person crouching at that distance.
After that clip, the character also hops a fence and draws attention from zombies. That's also something that would not have happened prior to the fix but absolutely should happen in my opinion. Those weren't far away at all.

Regarding sneaking itself, we'll also take a look at that, as it most certainly was balanced around the fact that zombies couldn't actually see you when you were more than 10 tiles away. Which was not intentional.
Good chance sneaking actually needs a boost in its effectiveness now.

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3 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

what do you mean with smell radius? i thought smell wasn't a thing yet? 

You're right, it isn't but it could be that the "hiding behind fence" mechanic basically increases the chance of being spotted if the character is bloody. 
So no smelling mechanic itself, but that's what the intention behind it would have been, if that makes sense?

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yeah i guess so, it's basically on but not on purpose. which is a golden chance to test how viable sneaking is before you patch it out :D

unless it only works around fences for some weird reasons. 

smell is the last big obstacle to master for sneak players so i'm quite hyped to give it a try

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On 1/15/2020 at 3:51 PM, Koester said:

Completely unplayable since the last update. PLEASE Indie Stone, halp!

I love this game and I hope that this is fixed fast. I really wanted to play this weekend. But I'm no pro at this game and I personally am not having fun with it right now. the zombies just seem to hoard up so fast and detect you so early. I get that people want difficulty and realism but this makes the game painstaking to play. At least for me it feels like a chore to do most things in game at the moment. I am/was really getting into this game too! 

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