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Josko

Wood Axe using too much endurance

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I just think it's unreasonable that wood axe uses so much endurance, it prevents it from actually being good because you get exausted so fast.

 

So I suggest to remove the EnduranceMod = 3 from the weapon, then it will be perfect!

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I would disagree, I feel the biggest contributing factor for its demise is the full 1 second of recovery after swinging and only being able to hit 1 zombie at a time with it. This makes it beyond a liability, practically a death-wish when fighting more than 2 at a time. With a fireaxe I can almost reliably fight off 4 if im feeling brave and confident, but this absolutely my limit. With a wood-axe, I dont feel confident even taking on two. The sledgehammer also has this issue and its why ill never even attempt to use these weapons. The endurance is bad, but the recovery after a swing is much worse. 

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6 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

It  pretty much instantly cuts down trees; combat isn't the point of it.

 

That said, it is way too slow and has been changed. :P 

While I think "not intended for combat" is alright,, making it so unsafe to use isnt the best option either. Theres no reason a wood axe should be worse than a frying pan for reliability, im sorry. 

 

Frankly, I think wood axe and sledgehammer should pretty much demolish anyone they hit, I feel it should nestle into a spot id call "powerful, but uncomfortable". The weapon never feels too safe to use, despite it blasting everyone you swing at it. This, coupled with the bad endurance should discourage people from using it, but encourage its use over conventional items. 

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there are already too many reliable weapons, imo the wood axe is better as it is now: slow and heavy, it will likely one shot but it's exhausting enough that you won't use it as a main weapon. 

 

you really want to save it for trees, it's not intended to be good for anything else

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On 11/13/2019 at 5:21 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

combat isn't the point of it.


I beg to differ ;)

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12 minutes ago, Josko said:

<snip>
I beg to differ ;)

What I noticed from you playing is you not only anim-cancel to skip recovery (which I didnt think could be done), but you also move always after swing even when you dont anim cancel, negating the biggest problem I have with the weapon right now. 

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5 minutes ago, Ziggylata said:

What I noticed from you playing is you not only anim-cancel to skip recovery (which I didnt think could be done), but you also move always after swing even when you dont anim cancel, negating the biggest problem I have with the weapon right now. 

Yup! If you move and swing the weapon is much better. Thanks to its great range, you can kite them like I showed in the video. Hit one zombie, walk away and hit another. Repeat until all zombies are dead :P

Wood axe is my fav weapon ❤️

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2 minutes ago, Josko said:

Yup! If you move and swing the weapon is much better. Thanks to its great range, you can kite them like I showed in the video. Hit one zombie, walk away and hit another. Repeat until all zombies are dead :P

Wood axe is my fav weapon ❤️

 

That range should be nerfed, though. The axe head is often nowhere near zombies.

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3 minutes ago, Josko said:

Yup! If you move and swing the weapon is much better. Thanks to its great range, you can kite them like I showed in the video. Hit one zombie, walk away and hit another. Repeat until all zombies are dead :P

Wood axe is my fav weapon ❤️

This will probably be patched out, but frankly, given how neat this is, I kinda wish it wont but I also dont want it to be a meta.

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1 minute ago, Ziggylata said:

This will probably be patched out, but frankly, given how neat this is, I kinda wish it wont but I also dont want it to be a meta.

Yeah it's really satisfying to use.

They could make it much rarer to balance I suppose

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3 minutes ago, Josko said:

Yeah it's really satisfying to use.

They could make it much rarer to balance I suppose

Well no, what I mean specifically is that if you arent anim-canceling like this, its a much worse weapon. Using a flaw in the games combat mechanics* to get more desirable results doesn't sound like its a good idea. I do like it but it means that anim canceling will have people jittering around and being more combat ready that they should be. I hope this gives you an idea of what I mean. 

Edited by Ziggylata

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13 minutes ago, Ziggylata said:

Well no, what I mean specifically is that if you arent anim-canceling like this, its a much worse weapon. Using a flaw in the games combat mechanics* to get more desirable results doesn't sound like its a good idea. I do like it but it means that anim canceling will have people jittering around and being more combat ready that they should be. I hope this gives you an idea of what I mean. 

I don't understand how I am anim cancelling? Do you mean when I move and hit with the weapon at the same time? Because if you stand still and swing it, you cant do anything until the animation has completed and I dont think that is intended.

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if your idea of good weapon is what you show in the video then i think apocalypse is not the mode for you. 

this looks way more like what you should do in builder/survivor mode, and in there many weapon acts like this without exploiting a game's weakness. 

 

anyone can enjoy the game as they wish, but please don't ask to buff the weapon even more. if anything, this axe requires your exploit to be patched out, so an indirect nerf. 

most of us want the zombies to be as dangerous as possible, because, frankly, the moment we stoo fearing them is the moment the game becomes boring. 

so, enjoy the game the way you like it most but i highly doubt they would allow such brokenness to be even buffed. we're the preys, not the hunters

Edited by Livio Persemprio

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1 minute ago, Josko said:

Because if you stand still and swing it, you cant do anything until the animation has completed and I dont think that is intended.

It is intended. Upon attack your character usually stops for a bit, then continues to walk. 

So yeah, you're cheesing.

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Just now, Burger_Time said:

It is intended. Upon attack your character usually stops for a bit, then continues to walk. 

So yeah, you're cheesing.

No you can move and attack with any weapon.

if they disabled so you could move and attack, the weapon would become useless.

I suppose that enduranceMod 3 is fine ^^

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4 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

if your idea of good weapon is what you show in the video then i think apocalypse is not the mode for you. 

this looks way more like what you should do in builder/survivor mode, and in there many weapon acts like this without exploiting a game's weakness. 

 

anyone can enjoy the game as they wish, but please don't ask to buff the weapon even more. if anything, this axe requires your exploit to be patched out, so an indirect nerf. 

most of us want the zombies to be as dangerous as possible, because, frankly, the moment we stoo fearing them is the moment the game becomes boring. 

so, enjoy the game the way you like it most but i highly doubt they would allow such brokenness to be even buffed. we're the preys, not the hunters

Yeah I enjoy being the hunter, feeling bad ass, not some weakling running 24/7, If you wanna be that go ahead, but I totally think Apocalypse should have room for skilled fighting. Otherwise I just don't find it fun, just boring and frustrating. We all play differently I guess ^^

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1 minute ago, Josko said:

No you can move and attack with any weapon.

if they disabled so you could move and attack, the weapon would become useless.

I suppose that enduranceMod 3 is fine ^^

You can't. At least not supposed to. Otherwise shit like you've shown in the video happens.

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you are allowed to move and swing at the same time, but when the hit connects you get a moment of halt before you can swing again. 

this pause is intended for preventing you from killing entire groups alone, but somehow you found a way of preventing this effect and you still kill groups

 

also, to reiterate,

apocalypse is meant to be the mode where you live on borrowed time, were you are the prey and have to think in order to survive. 

skilled combat is a thing for survivor mode, that is the game mode you want

Edited by Livio Persemprio

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1 minute ago, Burger_Time said:

It is intended. Upon attack your character usually stops for a bit, then continues to walk. 

So yeah, you're cheesing.

I wouldnt call it cheesing.

 

I just went to test it out and here are my results.

 

Assuming youre using CTRL to go into "attack mode", if you let go of CTRL and move away during the swing animation, you will cancel it at that exact moment into movement. If you dont do it while the attack is swinging, you will go through the full recovery animation. If you let go of CTRL too early, your attack may not connect with the zombie. This works with attacking downed zombies as well. 

 

This is not intentional but this sort of "tech skill" I feel can add a lot of depth into the games combat provided it stops looking like youre breaking the game. This could also be removed entirely but as it currently stands, the woodaxe and sledgehammer will return to being absolutely worthless for combat if that is the case. 

 

Ive tried anim-canceling with a few other weapons and its not bad but its nowhere near as useful or reliable as with sledge and woodaxe. Anim-canceling gives you a sort of, responsiveness, that you dont get normally. You can hit in groups without being locked in place and it allows you to actually be able to fight more than 3 zombies at a time much more reliably at the cost of awful endurance. If anyone has given this a try, theyd know what I mean. Swinging the woodaxe with level 9 fitness wont even last long, average fitness even less.

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Just now, Burger_Time said:

You can't. At least not supposed to. Otherwise shit like you've shown in the video happens.

Yes you are supposed to move and attack, the devs said that themselves.

I suppose the reason it works so well with Wood axe is because of its range and damage. But mostly the range is a big factor for this kite tactic.

And if we are talking cheesing, what about luring zombies to windows and just insta kill them with a fast one handed weapon? I made a video of that too.

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4 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

you are allowed to move and swing at the same time, but when the hit connects you get a moment of halt before you can swing again. 

this pause is intended for preventing you from killing entire groups alone, but somehow you found a way of preventing this effect and you still kill groups

 

also, to reiterate,

apocalypse is meant to be the mode where you live on borrowed time, were you are the prey and have to think in order to survive. 

skilled combat is a thing for survivor mode, that is the game mode you want

Id disagree there as well. Survivor mode's combat is not very engaging or fun, I think its way too easy and I push in apocalypse for maximizing combat potential with the lesser abilities to do so. Apocalypse should not be "stealth only dont fight". You dont live on borrowed time in Apocalypse and multiple people on twitch including myself are living months into apocalypse with pretty much guaranteed safety and resources. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Josko said:

Yes you are supposed to move and attack, the devs said that themselves.

I suppose the reason it works so well with Wood axe is because of its range and damage. But mostly the range is a big factor for this kite tactic.

And if we are talking cheesing, what about luring zombies to windows and just insta kill them with a fast one handed weapon? I made a video of that too.

You arent supposed to be able to, ive just gone in and tested it. Its absolutely not intended.

Edited by Ziggylata

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2 minutes ago, Ziggylata said:

You arent supposed to be able to, ive just gone in and tested it. Its absolutely not intended.

Do you mean the window insta kill thing? Devs havn't done anything about that. If it wasn't intended surely they would have fixed it?

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44 minutes ago, Josko said:

the devs said that themselves.

No. That's not what they said.

 

They said that they had to make character stop while hitting to prevent Horde-slaughtering, but y'all find a convenient way to cheese through that. Good on you, "hunter."

Edited by Burger_Time

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Just now, Josko said:

Do you mean the window insta kill thing? Devs havn't done anything about that. If it wasn't intended surely they would have fixed it?

Theyre sort of busy, they cant get to everything right away. I dont think "they havent touched it yet so it must be intended" makes much sense or has much merit.

 

Anim-canceling is something I thought about but hadnt actaully given a test until I saw your video and wood-axe goes from being a liability to being a top-tier weapon and I feel given the "wood axe isnt meant for combat" from EnigmaGrey, you should be more open minded in this way. Dont hear me wrong, I like the anim-canceling but I dont know if it should be in the game how it is.

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