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Josko

Injured Trait

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I saw that there is an unfinished injured trait that would give -4 points, I think it would be a nice addition to the game, it would be extra nasty with slow healer trait too!

Maybe you start with a broken bone and those healing from that really takes time ^^

If it's a broken bone it should give alot more points, like -10 IMO.

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As much as I like to take them when making a character, I dont want to see more temporary traits that you can take for free-points, provided you get over the slightly higher difficulty hump.

If you dont understand what I mean, please see Underweight and Overweight. 

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1 hour ago, Ziggylata said:

As much as I like to take them when making a character, I dont want to see more temporary traits that you can take for free-points, provided you get over the slightly higher difficulty hump.

If you dont understand what I mean, please see Underweight and Overweight. 

 

Why not? I think we need more traits that can be eliminated through gameplay. It'd give a lot more variety to starting characters. There are already a number of permanent negative traits that are essentially free points. I always take things like high thirst, slow healer, slow reader, hemophobia, and weak stomach. These traits basically do not effect the game at all. They add nothing interesting, no new mechanics, no new goals, but I always take them. I think many of us do the same.

 

Meanwhile on the other hand traits like overweight distinctly change the way the early game works. Traits like Smoker, which absolutely should be a trait that you can eliminate over time, also add new goals to the game. Starting with a broken leg, or starting with the flu, these would have clear and obvious effects on the early game.

 

Its also realistic to have traits that can be changed over time. Changing things over time is a big part of this game, why shouldn't your character be able to improve, or get worse, depending on how you play the game? 

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2 hours ago, muscamole said:

 

Why not? I think we need more traits that can be eliminated through gameplay. It'd give a lot more variety to starting characters. There are already a number of permanent negative traits that are essentially free points. I always take things like high thirst, slow healer, slow reader, hemophobia, and weak stomach. These traits basically do not effect the game at all. They add nothing interesting, no new mechanics, no new goals, but I always take them. I think many of us do the same.

 

Meanwhile on the other hand traits like overweight distinctly change the way the early game works. Traits like Smoker, which absolutely should be a trait that you can eliminate over time, also add new goals to the game. Starting with a broken leg, or starting with the flu, these would have clear and obvious effects on the early game.

 

Its also realistic to have traits that can be changed over time. Changing things over time is a big part of this game, why shouldn't your character be able to improve, or get worse, depending on how you play the game? 

 

Personally, I feel that hemophobia should be a bigger debuff. Weak stomach could be tweaked as well, slow reader is pretty small, slow healer could be extended even further and high thirst is definitely a very bad trait to take and I would almost never take it again.

 

I understand what youre saying, but any negatives given by traits should either be small or their negatives effects worsened to match their value.

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2 minutes ago, Ziggylata said:

 

Personally, I feel that hemophobia should be a bigger debuff. Weak stomach could be tweaked as well, slow reader is pretty small, slow healer could be extended even further and high thirst is definitely a very bad trait to take and I would almost never take it again.

 

I understand what youre saying, but any negatives given by traits should either be small or their negatives effects worsened to match their value.

 

Oh I definitely think the trait points need rebalancing, and also a better description of what they actually do. I'm kind of surprised with your assessments of those particular traits, just because I've never felt impacted by any of them. But maybe this points to a need for some sort of community wide survey of trait balancing to get a consensus of how useful certain traits are vs others. 

 

These "temporary" traits don't have to be worth tons of points but some of them should. Like you could start with the flu, which would be 2 points. Pretty minor impact but allows you take one more small positive trait for a little extra flavor. Or you could start with a broken leg, which should probably be 10 points. Having a broken leg and no gear to start would probably be a death sentence in real life so it should be a lot of points. 10 points gets you a lot of positive traits, but I think thats very fair. A person who can survive that probably does have more positive traits than the average person.

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2 minutes ago, muscamole said:

 

Oh I definitely think the trait points need rebalancing, and also a better description of what they actually do. I'm kind of surprised with your assessments of those particular traits, just because I've never felt impacted by any of them. But maybe this points to a need for some sort of community wide survey of trait balancing to get a consensus of how useful certain traits are vs others. 

 

These "temporary" traits don't have to be worth tons of points but some of them should. Like you could start with the flu, which would be 2 points. Pretty minor impact but allows you take one more small positive trait for a little extra flavor. Or you could start with a broken leg, which should probably be 10 points. Having a broken leg and no gear to start would probably be a death sentence in real life so it should be a lot of points. 10 points gets you a lot of positive traits, but I think thats very fair. A person who can survive that probably does have more positive traits than the average person.

 

Id give you 6 at most for the broken leg, but the flu one does sound pretty good.

 

EDIT: To be more specific, the flu is a one-time issue. A small little bump to get over in your earlygame.

The broken leg (im assuming it comes splinted), is a long-term investment that is arguably easier to deal with (ironically) than being "very underweight" or "obese", which are the popular 10-point options. Yeah your movement speed is slow but youre also going to heal in about 2 weeks at most, maybe 3, you can still fight and that means you can still pick your battles. 6 points seems fair for that, because you dont need to change your diet or anything to deal with that.

Edited by Ziggylata

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1 minute ago, Ziggylata said:

 

Id give you 6 at most for the broken leg, but the flu one does sound pretty good.

 

I think thats fair too cause that still nets you one major positive trait. Honestly I've never broken my leg in game so IDK how it affects gameplay. Maybe its not that big a deal. But I have broken my leg in real life, and to me that would be like a 20 pointer in terms of how that would add difficulty to surviving the apocalypse, so at minimum a broken leg should net you one big positive trait.

 

Perhaps the way to balance it would be to give it a risk of improperly healing if your medical skill is too low and/or you don't treat it fast enough.

 

So broken leg would be +10, but you run a high risk of permanent movement speed penalty unless you also take something like First Aider or Former Scout from the start.

Same with broken arm. A broken arm might be +6, but you run the risk of permanent combat penalty.

 

You can choose to ignore first aid traits and hope to level up in time or just hope that the bones heal properly, which would net you more initial points, but it would be risky.

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This is counter-intuitive as heck, and I'll explain why I think that.

 

Yeah, this screams "free points" to me. Even with slow healer, you get a debuff that does not last forever and is easier to treat because you aren't caught off guard (you are literally choosing to start injured). Even the lesser weight flaws are objectively harder to get rid of and overcome, and don't payout nearly as much.

 

There is already a chance in game to spawn injured - this needs a bit more work, but it's there. It's part of the overall plan to increase the randomness of how you spawn when you are starting a new character.

 

A broken leg awarding 10 free points is just overpowered and cheesy. This just means that you start off slow. You either die immediately and spawn again (little repercussion given how quick it is to rebuild your character from a saved build) or you slowly get faster and faster over time and you are at normal speed after some safe gameplay. All you have to do is keep yourself fed and pass the time through sleep or speed up your clock, something that is easy enough at the start of regular gameplay. After that, you have a free 10 points of positives that you have on your character, making you quite a strong build.

 

Don't even get me started on the simple injured status rewarding 4 - you can heal out of this quite quickly in the current system, making this a no-consequence flaw if you spawn somewhere with food. As for the broken leg - this is a very temporary speed debuff that rewards you more points than the permanent flaws do. You'd have to remake the system for this to be more viable, but as it stands, I'm not convinced. 1 or 2 points for either of these is already too much unless the healing system changes anytime soon.

 

That said, I would be alright with more injury flaws that pertain to the severity. Weak bones is a solid option, you could really justify -4 for that. 

Edited by Kim Jong Un

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Perhaps rephrasing this from "broken leg" to "NO leg" would be better? In other words, you hobble around on one leg and have to equip a cane just to move at a non-atrocious speed. Or a wheelchair. 

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21 hours ago, Kim Jong Un said:

A broken leg awarding 10 free points is just overpowered and cheesy. This just means that you start off slow. You either die immediately and spawn again (little repercussion given how quick it is to rebuild your character from a saved build) or you slowly get faster and faster over time and you are at normal speed after some safe gameplay. All you have to do is keep yourself fed and pass the time through sleep or speed up your clock, something that is easy enough at the start of regular gameplay. After that, you have a free 10 points of positives that you have on your character, making you quite a strong build.

 

Maybe the problem is the way a broken leg is represented in game then. Like I said I've actually never broken my leg in game, but IRL a broken leg is a significant injury that takes 6-8 weeks to heal, for a minor fracture. You shouldn't be able to just sit around in your safehouse at the beginning of the game, you will run out of food and it will be really difficult to get more food because that broken leg will (or at least should, not sure if this is how it works in game) affect your combat ability, your carry capacity, and movement speed. You'll also be in constant pain initially with a lot of pain throughout. I think it is absolutely a 10 pointer if they actually were to represent a broken leg in a way that is realistic. And like I said, one way to balance it is to have a chance of permanent movement speed penalty, or maybe permanent chronic pain, if you don't have the first aid skill to properly fix it. So you can gamble and not spend points on first aid, and potentially end up with a very strong character, or you could end up with permanent damage.

 

Actually now that I mention it, chronic pain would be a pretty good negative trait. Essentially would function like the smoker trait, but for painkillers.

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