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TheLostBigBoss

Metal Weapons - Should they even "break"? (And other weapon durability concepts)

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With B41 being a nearly complete revamp of how the game is played in order to survive, the new weapons have me thinking. 

 

Things like shovels, gardening pikes and similar long range metal base-wooden length weapons are very easy to break in the game, some of them only lasting a few zombie encounters before snapping. This can be abstracted to the wooden base of the weapon breaking, obviously not the metal end of a shovel. 

Similarly, we now have weapons which are 100% metal. Things like metal pipes may not be easy to handle or do all that much damage, but the actual "durability" of using a metal pipe on a living person, let alone someone who is decaying, is nearly infinite. Something like a Pipe Wrench has been tested with the most insane of stress tests, these things in reality do not break under any normal usage, let alone in the circumstances of it being used as a blunt vs. human flesh and bone. 

 

Which comes to the current balance of weapon durability. Some of the weapons we have come to know and love, like the Spade (which is now a shovel) have been rightfully reworked to not be as effective over any significant length of time. However, since we are now treating weapons as they should be, should not the inverse be looked at in regards to weapons which realistically would never actually stop functioning or break in combat? 

 

This goes for metal ends of weapons like axes. The weakness and "durability" isn't in the head of an axe. The clear weakness is always the handle and the connection between the handle and the head of the axe. Instead of having an axe just "break" and be unusable, the aspect of repairing it or "fixing" it should be two fold. 

Low level carpentry can try and maintain a handle/head connection with the common tools we have like tape, glue and so forth. Higher level carpentry can craft new handles to attach axe heads. This means that broken heads from old axes, both one handed and two handed, can be repurposed later in the game when you gain the skills to craft proper handles.

The weapon "effectiveness" is also impacted by the overall state of the axe head. It can chip, become dull during multiple combat encounters that requires cleaning between encounters up to resharpening the edge during downtime back at your base in order for it to keep being as effective as it should be.

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There are a lot of factors and the main one concerning durability is weight.

One way to balance durability is essentially and quite easily by having it proportional to weight.

 

Say each zombie hit reduces durability 0.1 points

Standard weapon is say 50 hits ( for easy math ) 

we can say 0.025 lbs per point of durability.

 

So we can say the weapon will way 2.5lbs ( reasonable ) 

 

That means if we want to balance metal weapons the average weight should be 5lbs + 

For blunt metal weapons

 

With bladed weapons the issue is 2 things the sharpness of the edge and the thinness of the blade.

So in that case weight is less of a factor

 

Essentially it would be one way to possibly balance it

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Yeah full metal weapons like crowbar, leadpipe, pipewrench should have infinate durability.

 

Katana should have very high durability too.

 

Honestly I never liked this short durability business in zomboid, its bad. Sure it is needed for some balance but if your shit breaks too fast its no fun, and having fun is a huge factor.

 

The broom breaks before even killing 1 zombie, its ridicilous!

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Durability for all items needs to be tweaked. I can't imagine using a butter knife once and snap. Maybe if these things were made from plastic I can see them breaking during one zed encounter. I get that they want some balance to damage but look how many zeds exist, especially in the challenge modes where they respawn. So zeds are infinite but the weapons are finite? Sure you can endlessly make spears, but I still think the spears even break too fast, where you end up having to carry 5 or 6 at a time just for a regular encounter which means carrying a lot of weight just to make the spears worth using. 

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I feel like that instead of breaking, bladed weapons should dull and rust.

 

The idea is that if you split skulls or decapitate zombies, they'll eventually lose most of their combat effectiveness until you sharpen them and polish the rust off. I have seen moments where rusted or corroded metal could break, but a weapon like your trusty machete should be able to go for a long time before that should even be possible. But if they added a sharpening mechanic to force people to maintain their blades for optimal combat effectiveness, that may actually be better in the long run.

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The woodaxe has insane durability as a weapon, I'm still at %95  durability with over 1500 zombies killed. This level of durability should definitely be used with the crowbar, metal pipes, and other metal weapons. Like you said, their use on zombies would be practically infinite. If a new mechanic was introduced, I think bladed weapons (including, but to a lesser extent axes) should go down in damage gradually, requiring maintenance (sharpening) to the blade.

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23 hours ago, Caturday said:

With these changes people stick to few weapons forever.

I mean, if a weapon is rare and powerful, I for one think it would be great if people could stick with them for as long as they're alive. Or at least, letting the player decide, like if there was a sandbox option regarding durability.

 

You could be able to set certain weapons to having infinite durability for example.

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The problem here is you either have high/infinite durability weapons with high weight or have medium durability weapons with medium weight. The difference is when weapons break too often, you have to carry a couple of them (like i do with butter knives when i have a bag, because they break so fast), but having one weapon that can last a 100 Zs is good enough, even if it is a bit heavier than the others of the same type.

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Should we get down to the reeds and talk about conditional durability? A katana will slice through dozens of zombies with little wear, but if you tried to smack down a door with it the blade would shatter within a hit or two. Sharp, hard, but brittle. The material (wood, plastic, metal etc) isn't as important as the design and its use case. An axe and a shovel are made of the same stuff and probably about the same weight, but the head of a shovel would dent far more easily, being broad and thin compared to the dense axehead.

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