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Okamikurainya

Disease Overhaul

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10 minutes ago, Okamikurainya said:

I think the best possible option is to limit it to the most common types of animals which we associate rabies with, and even then to have it rare within those groups.
I think bite and scratch protection from clothes will also play a big part for protection from animals, as well as from zombies...

I also think that the amount of hostile animals will be relatively low... In my previous animal suggestion I listed the various animals you'd expect to find in Kentucky and most wouldn't actually aggro, and would rather flee from the player wherever possible... Heck, even the ones that would aggro would probably realistically flee rather.

If an animal is coming at you as if it were something from The Elder Scrolls bestiary, then you'd already have a good guess that it may have something wrong with it and know that you may have to take a vaccine just to be safe.
That could present an interesting scenario actually... Could the animal's randomly generated temperament have made it more likely to bite at you relatively unprovoked, or could it have been rabid? Do you risk taking the vaccine when it could have been harmless and so waste the rare and valuable item, or do you leave it and end up beyond recovery?

i like the general idea of animals being carrier of illness so that you don't just charge at them while screaming death. 

most of the specific scenarios are subject to become obsolete but mostly i don't see it working the way it is suggested right now, like why would you not take a vaccine the moment you find it? 

there's no waste involved, you just become immune to that specific disease (again, oversimplified version, but this is no place to get too technical). 

also a vaccine should be extra rare, so most of your games you would just be attacked by an aggressive animal without any way to prevent it. 

though on the other side, i do like a lot the idea of an animal being overly aggressive due to rabis, would give a nice touch to the gameplay

 

edit: just went reading the post again, there is a small misconception : you don't get a vaccine after a bite, you take it in advance and it renders you immune

Edited by Livio Persemprio

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4 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

i like the general idea of animals being carrier of illness so that you don't just charge at them while screaming death. 

most of the specific scenarios are subject to become obsolete but mostly i don't see it working the way it is suggested right now, like why would you not take a vaccine the moment you find it?

For gameplay purposes, I suggested that the vaccine would last for a month. You could very well take it right away and have immunity for the period of that month, if you find more than that then you could keep a constant monthly string of "boosters" going to keep you immune. But in the case you only find the one vial and syringe, that's 4 uses and I believe and have seen that people, myself included, like to hoard medication in games. Just look at the memes of folk slogging inventories full of health and mana potions they never use but keep just in case. 😂
Anyhow, this gets even more risky in multiplayer when you may need to share with a group. "Is it worth it? You don't know it was rabid, man. We only have the one vial."
 

10 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

edit: just went reading the post again, there is a small misconception : you don't get a vaccine after a bite, you take it in advance and it renders you immune

Rabies vaccines are actually most commonly administered post-bite and the effects don't last forever. In reality antibodies may persist in the body for years, but I'd suggest it be simplified. That said, it's also perfectly valid if the rabies vaccine would give permanent immunity in game, I just don't think it makes for good gameplay.

Flu vaccinations can require yearly shots, or even more, as the influenza virus is highly mutagenic and can change to attach in a totally different way. Heck, a flu vaccination can fail if you simply leave the region and get exposed to flu from far away.

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9 minutes ago, Okamikurainya said:

For gameplay purposes, I suggested that the vaccine would last for a month. You could very well take it right away and have immunity for the period of that month, if you find more than that then you could keep a constant monthly string of "boosters" going to keep you immune. But in the case you only find the one vial and syringe, that's 4 uses and I believe and have seen that people, myself included, like to hoard medication in games. Just look at the memes of folk slogging inventories full of health and mana potions they never use but keep just in case. 😂
Anyhow, this gets even more risky in multiplayer when you may need to share with a group. "Is it worth it? You don't know it was rabid, man. We only have the one vial."
 

Rabies vaccines are actually most commonly administered post-bite and the effects don't last forever. In reality antibodies may persist in the body for years, but I'd suggest it be simplified. That said, it's also perfectly valid if the rabies vaccine would give permanent immunity in game, I just don't think it makes for good gameplay.

Flu vaccinations can require yearly shots, or even more, as the influenza virus is highly mutagenic and can change to attach in a totally different way. Heck, a flu vaccination can fail if you simply leave the region and get exposed to flu from far away.

yeah, the vaccine in general don't make for fun gameplay imo. 

a very rare item that covers you for a certain period of time is a great idea though, so the best course of action might be removing the rabis name altogether and move this to a generic very powerful infection, and then an item to prevent it for set amount of time. though it would also require to be not fatal if you are out of your own. maybe like eat 75% of the health bar? you should eat, disinfect the wound and keep the bandages clean and then you'll survive with that 25%? so this way it is dangerous enough to make you wish for that notvaccine (what should we call it?) but not unfair for those runs where that item just won't show up due to rng. 

 

out of curiosity, how does the post bite vaccine thing work? it's not impossible but it doesn't really make sense for how vaccines work.

as you already know, vaccines are just super weak versions of the disease, and once killed and analized they allow your body to develop antibodies. why waiting until your body is already under attack when you could just do the shot in advance and never get threatened? vaccines are safe anyway. 

maybe it is a shot of specific antibodies? let's say you get a disease and i'm vaccinated for it, we could take my trained antibodies and pump them in your organism so that they will kill the ongoing infection, but that doesn't equal to becoming vaccinated yourself 

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2 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

yeah, the vaccine in general don't make for fun gameplay imo. 

a very rare item that covers you for a certain period of time is a great idea though, so the best course of action might be removing the rabis name altogether and move this to a generic very powerful infection, and then an item to prevent it for set amount of time. though it would also require to be not fatal if you are out of your own. maybe like eat 75% of the health bar? you should eat, disinfect the wound and keep the bandages clean and then you'll survive with that 25%? so this way it is dangerous enough to make you wish for that notvaccine (what should we call it?) but not unfair for those runs where that item just won't show up due to rng.

Hmm... I'm personally not a fan of swapping it out for something less lethal and generic in this case, but it's really up to the devs. We may get no rabies at all even anyway.
My main goal was for it to be rare, but fatal. Something you'd have to always be afraid of when dealing with coyotes, feral dogs and the like.

 

5 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

out of curiosity, how does the post bite vaccine thing work? it's not impossible but it doesn't really make sense for how vaccines work.

as you already know, vaccines are just super weak versions of the disease, and once killed and analized they allow your body to develop antibodies. why waiting until your body is already under attack when you could just do the shot in advance and never get threatened? vaccines are safe anyway. 

maybe it is a shot of specific antibodies? let's say you get a disease and i'm vaccinated for it, we could take my trained antibodies and pump them in your organism so that they will kill the ongoing infection, but that doesn't equal to becoming vaccinated yourself 

The rabies vaccine works by introducing a dead virus to your system, your immune system can then go and defeat this easily accessible and defeatable virus and learn how to create anti-bodies against it. Rabies is unique in that it can only reproduce in neural tissue and it takes a long time for the virus to reach that tissue, unless the animal bites right into your spine. So while the virus is traveling to the tissue it needs, and this can take anything from weeks to months, it is vulnerable to the antibodies produced thanks to the vaccine and so can be wiped out before it becomes dangerous.

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1 minute ago, Okamikurainya said:

Hmm... I'm personally not a fan of swapping it out for something less lethal and generic in this case, but it's really up to the devs. We may get no rabies at all even anyway.
My main goal was for it to be rare, but fatal. Something you'd have to always be afraid of when dealing with coyotes, feral dogs and the like.

 

The rabies vaccine works by introducing a dead virus to your system, your immune system can then go and defeat this easily accessible and defeatable virus and learn how to create anti-bodies against it. Rabies is unique in that it can only reproduce in neural tissue and it takes a long time for the virus to reach that tissue, unless the animal bites right into your spine. So while the virus is traveling to the tissue it needs, and this can take anything from weeks to months, it is vulnerable to the antibodies produced thanks to the vaccine and so can be wiped out before it becomes dangerous.

oh, makes sense, a combo of rabis both being slow and super rare, so basically they produce a vaccine just for you whenever it is needed. 

 

to be fair, i have no clue my go to solution would be better, maybe people would get cocky and ignore the danger since it doesn't require anything special to fix. 

a small enough percentage of lethal animals should work ay mmt making you afraid of the animals but not in a situation of unfair death too easily. who knows, but i enjoy the discussion ^^

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2 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

oh, makes sense, a combo of rabis both being slow and super rare, so basically they produce a vaccine just for you whenever it is needed.

I wouldn't say it's super rare... Despite what Zombie Hunter said, a quick Google search of yearly Rabies incidents in Kentucky will present numbers of around 20 to 40 cases per year, though that may be County based in some results, so the number may be higher.
That isn't very large overall, but that's most likely people who are more likely to be bitten. If more people venture into the wilderness, it may very well increase the chances of them being bitten and thus increase the chances that the bite may pass on Rabies.

 

7 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

to be fair, i have no clue my go to solution would be better, maybe people would get cocky and ignore the danger since it doesn't require anything special to fix. 

a small enough percentage of lethal animals should work ay mmt making you afraid of the animals but not in a situation of unfair death too easily. who knows, but i enjoy the discussion ^^

Well, when 100% of the current enemies have a move that is 100% fatal, any additional enemies will lower that percentage, regardless of how many rabid animals are added, so I don't think it's unfair. 😜
And yeah, the discussion is enjoyable. 😁

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2 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Well, when 100% of the current enemies have a move that is 100% fatal, any additional enemies will lower that percentage, regardless of how many rabid animals are added, so I don't think it's unfair.

By the way, unlike PZ's zombie virus, Rabies actually can be prevented by simple disinfection, especially if the wound has been disinfected immediately, so you don't always need to waste a vaccine.

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4 minutes ago, Burger_Time said:

By the way, unlike PZ's zombie virus, Rabies actually can be prevented by simple disinfection, especially if the wound has been disinfected immediately, so you don't always need to waste a vaccine.

It's possible, but I wouldn't rely on it. Once it's in the blood, the chance that it's been circulated will go up every second and even then it's important to seek medical attention and get the shot. I don't think I'd take the risk of just disinfecting the wound. 😰

 

https://www.elsevier.com/connect/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-rabies-but-should

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