The ability to fill up bathtubs, sinks, and similar receptacles.

[Stormc12]

One of the things you're told to do early on in the outbreak in Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide is to fill up bathtubs and sinks with water (obviously plugging the drain) in order to have a safe (albeit temporary) source of water. At the moment, it isn't in the game, but I thought that it would be a good idea to add it in. Being able to fill tubs and sinks with water from other sources (such as water bottles, gardening cans, and such) could also be a good idea.

[ZombieHunter]

Balance wise it would be a tad overpowered because tap water is clean water.

 

But incase you didn't know if you keep cooking pans and buckets outside in the rain it collects water.

Also you can craft rain collection barrels.

 

Just make sure to boil the water first.

Edited October 25, 2019 by ZombieHunter

[EnigmaGrey]

This is sort of already there. That's what I prefer to think the whole "last 5 - 20" fills are from the tap.

 

It'd be better to visually show it, ofc and to have it be a little bit more random once that happens.

 

It's already extremely unbalanced, so it's not like it's going to matter. If anything, it would help balance it because we would no longer have to assume that every sink and bathtub has such a large quantity of water in it. You could instead find filled tubs or sinks leftover from others attempting to survive.

[Lord_of_Cats]

I think balance concerning water is irrelevant, because you already can get it easily from the tap for a long time, and then there's rain water. This would just be a realistic and reasonable way to stockpile said water.

[ZombieHunter]

2 hours ago, Lord_of_Cats said:

I think balance concerning water is irrelevant, because you already can get it easily from the tap for a long time, and then there's rain water. This would just be a realistic and reasonable way to stockpile said water.

 

That is the thing - Rain water adds the challenge of boiling it or using a method of sanitizing it first.

Tap water \ office water - has no inherent risks. 

 

Honestly speaking I don't think water should ever shut down.

Most water pressure is maintained by water towers in these remote towns. 

It would be cool if they added a water tower + generator pump ( need to fill with barrels of gas ) to "restart" the water pressure. 

 

So for those people that do 6+ months you essentially have a "side objective" of restarting basic elements your self. Which would take significant amount of time to get enough fuel there to turn it back on. Or even having to repair the generator first. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by ZombieHunter

[EnigmaGrey]

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Most water pressure is maintained by water towers in these remote towns. 

It would be cool if they added a water tower + generator pump ( need to fill with barrels of gas ) to "restart" the water pressure. 

 

 

Those towers run out fast. Usually within a day or so, from past experience.

 

You're definitely not powering it from a generator. These things move hundreds of thousands of gallons a day.

[ZombieHunter]

6 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

 

Those towers run out fast. Usually within a day or so, from past experience.

 

You're definitely not powering it from a generator. These things move hundreds of thousands of gallons a day.

 

That would be in a normal scenario when living people exist to cause water consumption.

But in the end of the world when only you ( and or your friends ) are alive to use that water? 

 

The only issue would be underground leaking pipes that cause that water to slowly lose pressure. 

[EnigmaGrey]

15 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

That would be in a normal scenario when living people exist to cause water consumption.

But in the end of the world when only you ( and or your friends ) are alive to use that water? 

 

The only issue would be underground leaking pipes that cause that water to slowly lose pressure. 

 

Uh ... Huh.

 

No. People don't suddenly stop using water all at once.

 

Edit: And yes, municipal water supplies are leaky as all get out. Without a pump to maintain pressure, you're not going to be getting much water past a few days, regardless.

[Neonwarrior]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:35 PM, ZombieHunter said:

 

That is the thing - Rain water adds the challenge of boiling it or using a method of sanitizing it first.

Tap water \ office water - has no inherent risks. 

 

Honestly speaking I don't think water should ever shut down.

Most water pressure is maintained by water towers in these remote towns. 

It would be cool if they added a water tower + generator pump ( need to fill with barrels of gas ) to "restart" the water pressure. 

 

So for those people that do 6+ months you essentially have a "side objective" of restarting basic elements your self. Which would take significant amount of time to get enough fuel there to turn it back on. Or even having to repair the generator first. 

 

I kind of agree, I like long-term survival projects like this. That scene in The Last of Us where the large group of survivors that camped out inside of a hydroelectric dam, finally getting to run again after years of hard work and finding the right parts, was pretty satisfying to watch.
 

But due to the nature of the zombie outbreak as depicted in this game, it's just never going to be feasible as 'refuel generator, turn on switch to activate water reservoir pump, free water forever.' The difference between this game and that scene from TLoU was that the survivors in that dam consisted of engineers who permanently live there and are around to keep it running. There is ridiculous scale to how water is cleaned and shuffled around by the hundreds of thousands of gallons every single day. You couldn't possibly hope to accomplish such a task without a huge group of people with the knowledge of how to not only do it, but you also now have the arduous task of having to make sure it stays on. Maintenance around the clock. It can't just be a 'one-and-done' deal, because people in real life make their income ensuring that the water stays on. I'm sure they're rather busy people.

However, I get it, it's still possible. There's a lot less people using the water and less strain on the system. Personally I'm not against adding any content, and this is definitely something I feel could be useful to the setting. I can definitely see a group of engineers who decide to camp out in a water plant and ensure the surrounding area gets their water, using that as leverage and gaining power. I'm not sure why The Walking Dead didn't already make a group like that, some group of 'water barons' that hold all of the power due to their engineering knowledge. I'm just not sure PZ is the place for such a scenario.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Neonwarrior

[ZombieHunter]

8 minutes ago, Neonwarrior said:

 

I kind of agree, I like long-term survival projects like this. That scene in The Last of Us where the large group of survivors that camped out inside of a hydroelectric dam, finally getting to run again after years of hard work and finding the right parts, was pretty satisfying to watch.
 

But due to the nature of the zombie outbreak as depicted in this game, it's just never going to be feasible as 'refuel generator, turn on switch to activate water reservoir pump, free water forever.' The difference between this game and that scene from TLoU was that the survivors in that dam consisted of engineers who permanently live there and are around to keep it running. There is ridiculous scale to how water is cleaned and shuffled around by the hundreds of thousands of gallons every single day. You couldn't possibly hope to accomplish such a task without a huge group of people with the knowledge of how to not only do it, but you also now have the arduous task of having to make sure it stays on. Maintenance around the clock. It can't just be a 'one-and-done' deal, because people in real life make their income ensuring that the water stays on. Come on, now.

I think the better long-term survival project is something smaller, like building a well. Assuming you have an aquifer, a well would be the best solution for all your water problems and really IS a 'one-and-done' deal assuming you keep zombies from falling into it...

 

You are confusing the difference between a hydroelectric dam and a Water tower.

A water tower is far simpler - it is simply a pump which in many cases come directly from the river with little to no pretreatment.

Based on the size of the tower it is usually  3 - 4 diesel powered pumps. 

 

It is the pressure of the water in the tower which essentially keeps the pipes loaded. 

 

On 10/25/2019 at 9:22 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

No. People don't suddenly stop using water all at once.

 

You do realize everyone else is dead in the game besides the survivor right? 

These zombies when you aren't killing them aren't taking showers and having pool parties when we aren't looking. 

( If they were I totally missed out and didn't get a zombie pool party invite ) 

Edited October 29, 2019 by ZombieHunter

[Neonwarrior]

1 minute ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

You are confusing the difference between a hydroelectric dam and a Water tower.

A water tower is far simpler - it is simply a pump which in many cases come directly from the river with little to no pretreatment.

Based on the size of the tower it is usually 3 - 4 diesel generators. 

 

It is the pressure of the water in the tower which essentially keeps the pipes loaded. 

 

 

You do realize everyone else is dead in the game besides the survivor right? 

These zombies when you aren't killing them aren't taking showers and having pool parties when we aren't looking. 

( If they were I totally missed out and didn't get a zombie pool party invite ) 

 

First off, I edited in another paragraph into my post, maybe look at that. 

Are you sure water towers pump directly from the river? I'm almost certain they can only pump in 'clean' water, or else it'd be a massive public health issue. Or at least it's theoretically supposed to be clean, but that's more due to piping issues than because they literally pump from the river. 

[EnigmaGrey]

14 minutes ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

You do realize everyone else is dead in the game besides the survivor right? 

 

No, tell me more about the game I worked on for the last 6 years or so. I'm so interested in your take on it. /s

 

They're not all dead. Without the pumps running, the tower's going to lose pressure and drain, regardless. 

[Mikhail Reign]

I grew up in a town of 300. Our water came from a tower. We had a storm once were the power was knocked out for a week. We go put on water rations, and had reduced pressure (water pressure was only from gravity and not boosted by the pump), but there was still water the whole time. Our water came from a reservoir about a click out of town. It was kept 'clean' by having fish live in it (they keep it moving and eat the bugs that grow in it). Weren't allowed to fish there though.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mikhail Reign
additional information

[ZombieHunter]

9 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

No, tell me more about the game I worked on for the last 6 years or so. I'm so interested in your take on it. /s

 

They're not all dead. Without the pumps running, the tower's going to lose pressure and drain, regardless. 

 

Till the point NPCs exist - they are all dead.

After all you were the one you said don't consider NPC balancing until they are added into the game.

 

The only pressure loss from a closed system is only going to be from leaks along the system. Which of course would be impossible for the player to repair but at the same time minimal. 

 

With that said Water Towers distribution area is extremely small , unlike a water pump station,  These serve communities and municipalities. So even with NPCs you would only have a handful of people using the water.

 

But none of that really matters - it still in the end about gameplay and giving players something to do. and new ways to interact with the world. 

 

A water tower makes for an interesting Event area scenario.

 

Player notices the tap water is contaminated by getting sick from drinking from it.

Goes to investigate the local tower - finds it full of zombies. 

 

Maybe there are dead bodies in the tower - which would make it hopeless

Maybe the pump is broken which needs repairs - so it circulates

Maybe all the Gas reservoirs are empty.

 

It does add an interesting long term goal the player can do temporarily fix a problem. 

It wouldn't be mandatory as you can always collect rain water \ river \ lake water 

It gives players new ways to level up their metal working \ engineering skill beside crafting and repairing items in a repetitive manner. 

 

Currently the way players level up first aid is constantly cutting them selves and stitching them selves. 

Hopefully in the future the players can level it up by healing sick npcs etc. 

 

New ways to interact with the world, level up skills is always going to add toward the diversity and reduce repetitiveness. 

 

36 minutes ago, Mikhail Reign said:

I grew up in a town of 300. Our water came from a tower. We had a storm once were the power was knocked out for a week. We go put on water rations, and had reduced pressure (water pressure was only from gravity and not boosted by the pump), but there was still water the whole time. Our water came from a reservoir about a click out of town. It was kept 'clean' by having fish live in it (they keep it moving and eat the bugs that grow in it). Weren't allowed to fish there though.

 

That is a really interesting and smart solution I wonder who came up with that. 

But 300 people for 1 week sounds about right.

 

 

[EnigmaGrey]

2 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Till the point NPCs exist - they are all dead.

After all you were the one you said don't consider NPC balancing until they are added into the game.

Well, call me a hypocrite and get it over with then. Though I'm pretty sure I said that in context of character professions or loot spawn.

 

Still not going to change my answer here. They're not all dead. Why do you think you're finding survivor houses,  loot caches, and other things as is? There's a ton of placeholder in the game at this point.

 

Your belief that the tower and the system will just keep pressure indefinitely is not the going to work in reality. A day, or a few, is all you get.

[Mikhail Reign]

14 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Your belief that the tower and the system will just keep pressure indefinitely is not the going to work in reality. A day, or a few, is all you get.

But it does? Like my example? Our town lasted a week (actually just over) with just the water in the tower. The pump to draw water from the res is operated via mains electricity, so no new water was added to the system. The local paper via told us to not use water for anything other then cooking and drinking. There was a notable decrease in the water pressure (obviously without the booster pump) but it was pretty consistent throughout the week. I don't know how much we had remaining when the power came back on, but they did say in the initial paper that a second stage of restrictions was possible and a newsletter would be distributed if it was necessary. We didn't get the second letter so I can only assume that there was still a reasonable amount still remaining after the 8 and a half days (IIRC) days the power was out.

 

Just for comparison - the size and layout of my town is similar to Rosewood in game. A single mainstreet with about 15 assorted shops (including 2 pubs!) A fire-station with a single engine, a police station (more a house then a 'station') and a couple larger agricultural and steel industry building. Side to side the town is about 1km wide by 2km, with a very noticeable drop off in density on the edges of town, and bordered on all sides my wheat fields. 

[Ravenim]

On 10/25/2019 at 6:52 AM, EnigmaGrey said:

This is sort of already there. That's what I prefer to think the whole "last 5 - 20" fills are from the tap.

 

It'd be better to visually show it, ofc and to have it be a little bit more random once that happens.

 

It's already extremely unbalanced, so it's not like it's going to matter. If anything, it would help balance it because we would no longer have to assume that every sink and bathtub has such a large quantity of water in it. You could instead find filled tubs or sinks leftover from others attempting to survive.

That'd be a great animation, plus it would force the player to do some microing to fill said tubs/sinks before the water turns off, I'm, not sure how the LUA code works, but maybe make it possible where all water becomes tainted after sitting for a certain time?  Either way, keep up the good work.