Jump to content

Build 41


tommysticks

Recommended Posts

This is my feedback for build 41 so far.

 

Character movement is super clunky and makes the game exponentially more difficult. It feels like I'm playing surgeon simulator while trying to survive the apocalypse. 

Having to actually rotate to make a move or fend off a zed has ruined the game for me now. I think having the old movement system with the new anims would be best. I understand it might look kinda weird but there needs to be a balance between realism and fun. It has turned any zed behind a door or corner in close quarters into a death sentence.

I don't like how making a 180 degree turn can't be done on 1 square.

I used to be able to engage a zombie and do a quick 360 to check my back and see if I was being flanked, this is now nearly impossible, and I don't like this.

 

Having to target the head when zeds are down is also frustrating, but I think I can get used to this. However, I think there needs to be more leeway because aiming at that small of a target is pretty difficult and also makes zombie encounters just so much more difficult. I do like the balance of stepping on the head being more deadly, though.

 

I understand you guys are probably trying to make it more difficult or realistic, but I've never experienced this level of frustration with a game that I've loved. It seems you've turned the gameplay from survival being probable to impossible.

 

I'm going to continue to play for a few more hours to see if I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think I'll be able to get over the new character handling.

 

Also, I've found a bug. If your character dies and you go back to the main menu then click continue, sometimes it spawns an invisible character in your last house that makes the game crash if you try to perform an action. I think clicking load has the same effect. I'm playing with a controller, I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I will attempt to recreate this and upload my console log.

 

edit -

Looting is also clunky. When there are multiple containers that can be looted and you try to grab something from one you're not standing directly in front of it forces your character to reposition to the front of that container, this makes all the containers in the UI get rearranged, and I lose the shit I had my eye on. It makes sense to me, in a game world, if you can see the shit inside a container that's a square away, you should be able to loot it from where you're standing. If you want to stick to this mad realism, you could make the character lean in the direction of the container, this would alleviate the character having to move directly in front of it, and would stop the UI from disappearing.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the controller use within this build hasn't been calibrated/properly tested yet so I'd recommend you probably don't use a controller and stick to keyboard + mouse.

 

I've also never had an issue with the character turning, I'm always able to look behind me perfectly when I'm in the attack stance- it's just a little slower which I'm A-okay with.

 

The game isn't 'now probable to impossible', you just haven't adapted to the new gameplay yet. You have to learn and adapt to the new mechanics and learn that it isn't okay to open a door when you suspect a zed or more are behind it and have to be very cautious now. Lets be honest, build 40 and below were wayyy too easy. Sneak more and try to avoid combat when you can. Also the new 'brawler' mode might be of interest to you, it's not an 'easier game mode' or anything, it's just more combat-oriented with alot of unique tweaks specific to it. 

 

I do agree with you for aspects of the looting though. I find it cool when your character goes in-front of the thing he's looting but it's annoying when they re-position themself in such a way that you can't actually look at the inventory of the thing you were looting anymore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don’t know if it’s a controller issue, but it’s the only way I can play for now.

 

But I’ve come across a few more annoyances:

 

Theres some sort of movement hitch when trying to surpentine, the player will come to a complete stop for a brief second while running in an ‘S’ movement, and sometimes when making a 90 deg turn. 

 

The player will also come to a brief halt when climbing through a window and landing on the other side. 

 

While aiming and trying to move, the character moves in an extremely weird fashion. It doesn’t feel fluid at all. 

 

I understand that some of these issues may just be me needing to adapt, but it feels excessive and frustrating, especially because of how much I loved the game already. 

 

Now when starting a new character engagements with anymore than one zed are not worth my time because there are too many factors that can lead to death.

 

I believe my statement of survival going from probable to impossible is pretty accurate. I used to be able to take on medium sized (~10 zeds) groups while completely unarmed, to now running away from 2-3 zeds. While it may not have been realistic, it was more fun IMO. 

 

I feel like most of my frustration is coming from the new way of handling movement. 

 

But like I said, I’m going to continue to play and see if the gameplay can change my mind. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, tommysticks said:

I believe my statement of survival going from probable to impossible is pretty accurate. I used to be able to take on medium sized (~10 zeds) groups while completely unarmed, to now running away from 2-3 zeds. While it may not have been realistic, it was more fun IMO. 

You was never intended to do that. Even if you were able to, devs didn't want it to be like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Burger_Time said:

You was never intended to do that. Even if you were able to, devs didn't want it to be like that.

I don’t recall ever seeing a number of how many zeds they intended an unarmed player being able to take on, but a common theme mentioned by the devs is a balance between realism and fun.

 

Within the first hour of playing the new build I don’t know how many times I died, but I audibly said to myself “you gotta be fuckin kidding me” due to the increase in difficulty. It seems they have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other, and I’m here offering my feedback. 

 

And I’ve already said this, but here it is again: I understand it might just be me needing to get used to the changes, just like when they changed shooting mechanics, but they are also looking for feedback for this massive build.

 

This is my favorite game of all time, but I’m going to be honest with my opinion on the way things are going. The new anims and models are badass, but I don’t like the new movement mechanics. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tommysticks said:

I don’t recall ever seeing a number of how many zeds they intended an unarmed player being able to take on, but a common theme mentioned by the devs is a balance between realism and fun.

 

Of course, that is the end goal they want but it's just very hard to interpret because it can vary between each individual. I get what you mean, but it's pretty obvious that the devs are aiming for combat to be much harder than previous builds. They want their game to be as realistic (and in turn harder) so that you can't go around running unarmed killing hordes of zombies- especially at the start of the game. 

 

The way I see it is like this: it's a game about progression. A survivor is not meant to take out hordes of zombies just as the apocalypse has started in his back yard. You're meant to slowly boost up your skills, run away, sneak, loot- all while slowly building up your survivor and combat skills. As time passes and your character is better, he is able to kill zombies quicker, more effectively, have all the good weapons he's looted at his disposal - maybe even start to take on small hordes? This is when the pre-41 build PZ as you remember comes in. 

 

I'm assuming you're playing Survivor, right? (now called Apocalypse) It's been intended as the most difficult gamemode in the game, they want people to die very easily just like the old George Romero films. 

 

I would seriously suggest you try the Brawler gamemode (now called Survivor). I know it will still have the same mechanics but it may appeal to you alot more. 

 

1 hour ago, tommysticks said:

This is my favorite game of all time, but I’m going to be honest with my opinion on the way things are going. The new anims and models are badass, but I don’t like the new movement mechanics. 

 

No one is going against you, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. I do understand when you say the movement mechanics are a little clunky at times, but hey, maybe after playing for a while you might get used to it. And if you don't, atleast PZ classic is still there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, tommysticks said:

I don't like how making a 180 degree turn can't be done on 1 square.

I used to be able to engage a zombie and do a quick 360 to check my back and see if I was being flanked, this is now nearly impossible, and I don't like this.

 

I agree with this,  from human movement it turned into motorcycle movement. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Burger_Time said:

Turns are absolutely fine. At least when your character is walking, he'll do a quick 180 turn on spot and continue moving.

 

I dunno about you, but I don't need todo a U turn when running - I know how to Pivot - I may lose slight momentum in doing so but  its probably one of the first things you learn in Physical Education Classes and while learning any sport when you are doing sprint training. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Mr_Sunshine said:

The way I see it is like this: it's a game about progression.

I agree with you here, but IMO the progression was already slow enough. 

 

That said, I feel less aggreged after seeing the update this morning. Lemmy said something along the lines of keeping that mode “ridiculously difficult.” The goal has been met, good sir. 

 

I still will play apocolypse mode mode for a while, to get a better feel for this madness. But it sound like Brawler may be closer to what I’m used to.

 

Also, it looks like they’ve addressed a few of the other issues I was complaining about, in regards to stomping and movement. So other people must have noticed the same shit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found it really tough at first.    It's still harder but I made it to 11 days before stopping to try another character.       Ive been keeping the shotgun out and if I'm in a room with multiple zeds I just shoot.    I like the fact that guns are now used more often rather than something you stockpile forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel the same as you do. The whole game feels clunky now, where as before, the movements felt much more fluid. Im not a big fan of how the characters look on the "paperdoll" or whatever you call it, but thats not really a big deal. Im all for difficulty and all, but I've always felt increases in difficulty should be done via gameplay, not clunky controls or bad UI. Im speaking in general terms here, Im not trashing Zomboid's UI. 

  Like Dwarf Fortress for example. The game is hard, mostly BECAUSE its control scheme is so clunky and its HORRID UI. Since this update I've been having difficulty doing things that used to be simple, such as climb out a window for instance. And its not because Im not used to the new update, its because the game isnt responding in a fluid fashion anymore in those areas. That all being said, I realize its a brand new system and hopefully they will fine tune it as time goes on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They movement does feel a bit clunky and unresponsive, but I think it would feel more jarring to a long time player than someone who has never experienced the way it was before  because of how overly fast it used to be. But still a bit clunky either way. Very few games give any thought to inertia and the need to actually rotate your entire body to change direction and overall I very much like the way it is now. I would prefer the way it works now to remain, but if it could be made just a little smoother that would be great.

 

It would also be nice if the the various ways you shove and break free would be animated faster, not only to reduce how ridiculously easy it is to get back chomped in an instant, but mostly so it feels more responsive and less frustratingly sluggish. As it is they look a bit odd. Like you are under water or something.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention that looting is also more troublesome now, as your character wants to move to directly face the container you are removing something from and doesn't take into account the changes to player movement so you'll end up facing a different box or direction and have to constantly manually correct your positioning, and it makes checking car glove compartments more difficult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use keyboard+mouse only. Im still pretty new. I did get to play a bit with the old way, but Im in no way a vet. Now, Im not trying to be the new guy that comes on in and starts saying all thats wrong with the game, all the while not having a grasp on what the game is supposed to be and where they want it to go. But all I know is this change feels VERY clunky and cumbersome to me. Will I adapt? Ofcourse. Thats what humans do. But that still doesnt change the fact that the controls now feel alot more like molasses to me. This is an extreme example, I know, but people in WWII London learned to adapt to the constant daily bombing of their city. But it didnt change the fact that it still sucked lol. Its not the end of the world, no pun intended. But hopefully it gets optimized from here. Im not looking to play Doom in Zomboid. Im cool with zombies being dangerous. But now it feels like you are easily screwed. Its like my character cant turn or maneuver fast enough to deal with a changing situation. You just get bit and die lol. All that being said, still an awesome game guys, and I hope you keep adding more to it! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I started playing this game five years ago, the UI and controls felt clunky, but I quickly got used to it. I had the same experience with build 41.

By the way, have there been any changes to zombie AI in 41? It feels like the standard hearing and navigation settings are a bit more forgiving, though it might just be because the current system requires a different approach to combat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been playing this game for years, I bought it way back on Desura so I'm not a noob. Now that I've gotten a bit of time in 41 played I have a few observations.

 

I find it is far too easy to get injured by zombies in the current version. It feels too random. Before it was mostly on the player, you messed up. Now it just feels like a roll of the dice. I'll be creeping up stairs or around a corner, being cautious and I've got a chunk out of me THE VERY SECOND I enter the room, sometimes by zombies that haven't even drawn in yet. They are there enough to attack me but not be displayed, and there is nothing I can do about that. That issue has always been in the game, but that coupled with the fact it seems they have a drastically increased chance of landing an attack on you makes it that much worse. More than 70% of my deaths have felt very random and was against a single or less than 3 zombies. I am not being stupid and trying to axe down crowds like the old days. I even disabled the take down and set rear attacks to low. Couldn't really tell a difference. It also feels like the changes to player movement (inertia, no instant rotations and such) do not apply to the zombies and TBH that's unfair.

 

Combat Skills seem to increase extremely slowly. Even with fast learner and EXP multiplier setting as high a 4x.

 

7 out of 9 pistols that I have found had no magazines. That should probably almost never happen. Especially in police stations, homes, etc. On zombie? Sure, maybe.

 

Sometimes zombies walk through your swing and don't get affected by it and can often land an attack while you're still animating your swing. Not super common, but when the result is you usually being dead it's bad.

 

Guns still suck for the most part, despite the huge danger they represent due to their loudness.

 

It would be nice if vehicle brakes were a bit more responsive.

 

Zombies seem to be able to find me much more accurately than ever before when I'm just doing inventory management, looting, and the like. Before if I wasn't being noisy by running around and such, I could generally transfer items from container to container alright if I was out of sight. Basically, if I quietly entered a location and began looting I was alright. Now zombies that have never seen me, probably shouldn't have heard me are constantly pathing for me if they are within about 50-100ft regardless of walls. I tested it by setting it so zombies won't make environmental attacks without the playing attracting them, and turning their hearing down to low and they still come for me, bashing on doors upstairs, in the apartment next door and even a few doors down. I don't know if their smell got a sizable buff or what, but they are overly persistent in coming towards me in situations where they shouldn't even know I'm there, and are able to make fairly complex pathfinding decisions to do so. 

 

 

A consequence of all these effects interacting I now believe that the "standard" zombie population settings as well as aggressiveness are a fair bit too high since they are so much more deadly and the player far less formidable.

 

 

Overall, I really like the visual updates, most of the changes to the player's movement (still needs smoothed out a bit though), and the combat other than how terribly easy it is for them to land attacks on you. If I had to pick one main issue? I feel like luck and chance plays too large a role in player survival now.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something else I’ve noticed is the knockback on weapons is non-existence, so now my go-to is push, then stomp regardless of whether I have a weapon or not. It feels like weapons are pretty useless now. Haven’t tried a spear yet, but people have been hyping those up quite a bit. 

 

Also, update on my gameplay. I’ve survived on apocalypse for ten days now, but I had to overcome the mental hurdle of having even less of a purpose than before - strictly survival, avoiding zombie contact at all costs. It’s like playing Minecraft on creative (with a mad resource grind) with the risk of occasionally losing everything.

 

Going back to the bathroom zombies, the movement mechanics are just mind numbing. I know there’s probably a zed in there, I know that he’s gonna have the upper hand, even if I stick to my new standard operating procedure of turn and burn. It’s because of that split second of having no momentum while trying get out of the way. It feels silly. I really hope this isn’t what the devs are going for. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...