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SabitaUsagi

No textures on Player or Zombie models, OSX version[Build 41]

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Tried adjusting both the 2x textures and texture compression, no effect. No Mods active. Game seems to be running smooth otherwise. Well 10 or so minutes in at least. 

Screen Shot 2019-10-21 at 1.57.44 PM.png

Edited by SabitaUsagi

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Hey guys, just want to bump this report with some additions.

 

The char without jacket is just a single texture.

The char with hat/glasses/bags/hairs is the same single texture with hat/glasses/bags/hairs.

The colour of the texture is a colour of the top most clothing.

 

However, it looks like there is something special about jackets.

The char in a jacket is the jacket only.

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-01 at 11.07.23 pm.png

Screen Shot 2019-11-01 at 10.03.07 pm.png

Screen Shot 2019-11-01 at 10.02.54 pm.png

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Hmm this is weird. I’m on Mac and I’m not having any of these issues. What’s your guys exact Mac stats? Including year. Mine is a late 2013 Mac but it runs just fine even my performance has been better since build 40. 

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Hmm I am not sure. The only difference between mine and yours is the processor and graphics card. Definitely weird. I also don't have a SSD so I dunno! Maybe a dev will look on here and see I will post mine now too. Just because mine is working.  

Screen Shot 2019-11-03 at 11.08.34 PM.png

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37 minutes ago, Thelonestander said:

Also didn't realize mine was mid 2012 oops, but even still that doesn't really help your case though. 

 

Could make a difference because Apple was in a licensing argument with the owners of s3tc compression, as has been my theory for a few years. This only affected nVidia cards between 2012 and late 2013, afaik. Looking through the game code, I suspect I'm wrong -- s3tc might only be applied to the floor tiles when compression is enabled in options, but then that isn't my field, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

The kicker is it should work just fine in Windows / Linux. It's just the Apple driver that's screwed. You can see the results here of another company that catches OpenGL compatibility reports form a variety of hardware: https://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/device/GeForce GT 750M It's missing an awful lot.

 

Either way, I bought a older 2012 iMac with an nVidia 650m (also reported to the have the same issues) to work with - it'd help immensely to be able to reproduce it and try things locally. Should get it in the next 2 weeks, if the eBay gods favor us.

 

Intel integrated gpus aren't affected by this. It's just an nVidia/Apple spat.

 

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11 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Could make a difference because Apple was in a licensing argument with the owners of s3tc compression, as has been my theory for a few years. This only affected nVidia cards between 2012 and late 2013, afaik. Looking through the game code, I suspect I'm wrong -- s3tc might only be applied to the floor tiles when compression is enabled in options, but then that isn't my field, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

The kicker is it should work just fine in Windows / Linux. It's just the Apple driver that's screwed. You can see the results here of another company that catches OpenGL compatibility reports form a variety of hardware: https://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/device/GeForce GT 750M It's missing an awful lot.

 

Either way, I bought a older 2012 iMac with an nVidia 650m (also reported to the have the same issues) to work with - it'd help immensely to be able to reproduce it and try things locally. Should get it in the next 2 weeks, if the eBay gods favor us.

 

Intel integrated gpus aren't affected by this. It's just an nVidia/Apple spat.

 

Is there someway that the op could somehow install some new drivers? I know apple has a few on their website that you can download you'd just have to do some googling. Do you by chance know if its the nvidia card? If he could change his somehow? Im not really sure. I upgraded my mac with more RAM but that's all I have ever done. The thing is though shouldn't mine be affected then? 

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1 minute ago, Thelonestander said:

Is there someway that the op could somehow install some new drivers? I know apple has a few on their website that you can download you'd just have to do some googling. Do you by chance know if its the nvidia card? If he could change his somehow? Im not really sure. I upgraded my mac with more RAM but that's all I have ever done. The thing is though shouldn't mine be affected then? 

 

Don't think so. Just checking nVidia's website, the cutoff for accessible drivers are 2010 for MacOS.

 

I think for a while, past this point, Apple distributed their own special version, unfortunately. I know some later GPUs do have manual downloads available, but not the 750M it seems.

 

Best bet, personally, would just be dual-booting Debian Stretch or something with a USB key and playing through it. (You'd likely need the proprietary Linux drivers, but MESA should do software emulation out of the box.)

 

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12 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

 

Don't think so. Just checking nVidia's website, the cutoff for accessible drivers are 2010 for MacOS.

 

I think for a while, past this point, Apple distributed their own special version, unfortunately. I know some later GPUs do have manual downloads available, but not the 750M it seems.

 

Best bet, personally, would just be dual-booting Debian Stretch or something with a USB key and playing through it. (You'd likely need the proprietary Linux drivers, but MESA should do software emulation out of the box.)

 

Hmmm that's lame why would they do that! Could op possibly use wine? I know wine is pretty easy to use. I use it for cataclysmDDA. He should be able to use all the game files from steam and use wine to make a wrapper. Though I don't know if wine would be the best choice since you can't update games unless you have the new files. Is MESA just basically wine? 

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9 minutes ago, Thelonestander said:

Hmmm that's lame why would they do that! Could op possibly use wine? I know wine is pretty easy to use. I use it for cataclysmDDA. He should be able to use all the game files from steam and use wine to make a wrapper. Though I don't know if wine would be the best choice since you can't update games unless you have the new files. Is MESA just basically wine? 

No honest idea there. Only time I've used Wine was on Linux. :)

 

May be doable if you can get around the driver limitation through  Wine.

 

You'd use https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD to get the files for the different OS after logging in with your credentials. (Could also use Debug mode in the Steam client, but can't recall the keystrokes.)

 

@sSteamCmdForcePlatformType linux
login steamuseranme
force_install_dir /dir/to/install/here
app_update 108600 validate
quit

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2 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

No honest idea there. Only time I've used Wine was on Linux. :)

 

May be doable if you can get around the driver limitation through  Wine.

 

You'd use https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD to get the files for the different OS after logging in with your credentials. (Could also use Debug mode in the Steam client, but can't recall the keystrokes.)

 


@sSteamCmdForcePlatformType macos
login steamuseranme
force_install_dir /dir/to/install/here
app_update 108600 validate
quit

I definitely didn't even think of the driver situation still. DANG. Wine uses the drivers that's on your computer so that's a no. Hmm definitely puzzling. I think OPs best bet is to use the USB key like you said. Assuming he will do it. So you said you guys bought a mac to re create some of the issues then? Maybe you'll figure it out, but I am 90% sure your correct on the nvidia card being the issue. I thought it was weird that other mac players are experiencing issues when I wasn't. Makes sense now. 

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Thanks for replies @Thelonestander and @EnigmaGrey. That sounds exactly like 99% of typical problems that I faced with my mac 😅

 

9 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

I think for a while, past this point, Apple distributed their own special version, unfortunately

 

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Yeah
My GPU is also an Nvidia 
I've done some CUDA driver updates in the past that helped with some other games and applications.
Do we know what the estimated Open GL minimum is? Or if the Textures system requires metal?

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2 hours ago, SabitaUsagi said:

Yeah
My GPU is also an Nvidia 
I've done some CUDA driver updates in the past that helped with some other games and applications.
Do we know what the estimated Open GL minimum is? Or if the Textures system requires metal?

Honestly I’m not sure. The only thing I can possibly offer you guys as a fix, is to use a boot camp partition of windows. Though you’d have to buy a windows OS. The problem with trying to install drivers is that your Mac still is going to use the nvidia card regardless. One of the devs told me they bought a Mac to do this type of testing for us. Which is great but it should be another week before they get it. 

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On 11/6/2019 at 1:03 PM, Thelonestander said:

Honestly I’m not sure. The only thing I can possibly offer you guys as a fix, is to use a boot camp partition of windows. Though you’d have to buy a windows OS. The problem with trying to install drivers is that your Mac still is going to use the nvidia card regardless. One of the devs told me they bought a Mac to do this type of testing for us. Which is great but it should be another week before they get it. 

Honestly If running the game through Virtual box, or  a attempting bootcamp partition end's up being my only option i'm just gonna have to wait until I can build a new computer.
Cuz I can't partition my internal without well wiping the drive and erasing everything. And I don't have the extra USB ports to run one off that. Plus like you said it's still gonna rely on the card I actually have.
With any luck the dev's will be able to figure out which extension or core portion of openGL the texture processing on the models is relying on. And then if Possible they can adjust it to rely on less. Which given the graphics quality, It should be able to require less. Not to say it's bad, but it's that low-poly sorta pixel texture style which I love... but realistically PS1-PS2 era level graphics shouldn't require PS3-PS4 level drivers & GPU's.
Like I can run Skyrim on this 2010 MacMini, soooo i feel like anything less than that graphically should not need something high than it's requirements.

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@SabitaUsagi, realistically there has to be a limit. I'm really not confident we could fit the game's textures into a 330M unless it's one of the 1 GB models (specs for both the 320M and 330M Mac Minis seem to indicate its only 256 MB). Even a GTX 9400 is really going to be pushing things (the ones that are around ~800 MB, at least assuming they work at all).  I just don't know how it's even able to run on that, in retrospect to our conversation on Discord yesterday. 

 

Does the non-animations build of the game work at all?

 

Really, this is just one of the reasons 2D-isometric games largely died off. Their tiles take up a massive amount of  VRAM, even before we get into having to do tilesorting on the CPU instead of the GPU. Not really problems that Skyrim has to deal with, even ignoring that we're basically a rounding error in terms of size compared to Bethesda.

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1 hour ago, SabitaUsagi said:

Honestly If running the game through Virtual box, or  a attempting bootcamp partition end's up being my only option i'm just gonna have to wait until I can build a new computer.
Cuz I can't partition my internal without well wiping the drive and erasing everything. And I don't have the extra USB ports to run one off that. Plus like you said it's still gonna rely on the card I actually have.
With any luck the dev's will be able to figure out which extension or core portion of openGL the texture processing on the models is relying on. And then if Possible they can adjust it to rely on less. Which given the graphics quality, It should be able to require less. Not to say it's bad, but it's that low-poly sorta pixel texture style which I love... but realistically PS1-PS2 era level graphics shouldn't require PS3-PS4 level drivers & GPU's.
Like I can run Skyrim on this 2010 MacMini, soooo i feel like anything less than that graphically should not need something high than it's requirements.

Also, using a boot camp partition does not delete all your stuff it just takes part of your unused space on your hard drive to install it. Even building your own computer may or may not fix all the issues. Some issues are within the game itself which they are working on to fix. Even the best computer in the world would still probably lag. The games a work in progress. And like @EnigmaGreysaid the iso games do take a lot more to load because of the overlapping of building tiles floor tiles and everything it loads. Think of a first person shooter for a sec. you only see what’s in front of you while what is to your side and behind you doesn’t load ie saving vram. And zomboid load the whole map in your cell you see what I’m saying? Driving fast and passing through cell after cell WILL lag due to the loading it has to do. Hell I’ve ran into a problem I start going to fast on roads and I’m met by the black screen till it loads. Just to clarify I’m not mad or attacking you just trying to help explain a bit. 

Edited by Thelonestander
Spelling error

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On 11/7/2019 at 2:43 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

@SabitaUsagi, realistically there has to be a limit. I'm really not confident we could fit the game's textures into a 330M unless it's one of the 1 GB models (specs for both the 320M and 330M Mac Minis seem to indicate its only 256 MB). Even a GTX 9400 is really going to be pushing things (the ones that are around ~800 MB, at least assuming they work at all).  I just don't know how it's even able to run on that, in retrospect to our conversation on Discord yesterday. 

 

Does the non-animations build of the game work at all?

 

Really, this is just one of the reasons 2D-isometric games largely died off. Their tiles take up a massive amount of  VRAM, even before we get into having to do tilesorting on the CPU instead of the GPU. Not really problems that Skyrim has to deal with, even ignoring that we're basically a rounding error in terms of size compared to Bethesda.

Guess I'm just gonna have to wait till i can get a new system.
And yeah build 40 runs just fine, it's a touch laggy at times but nothing extreme. Mostly the UI windows honestly. I've tested the backround fps a bit here and there and i think found a balance.
The thing is with the issue in this build it's not as if i have no textures. And the game itself runs much smoother. Everything else texture wise and items seems to be just fine.
It's only the Player model and Zed's models, Also clothing for the most part. I think that's part of it.
And while I acknowledge that my GPU is shit old and has almost no VRAM(yes the 256). There are at least two other people with the same issue who have 1.5GB & 2GB VRAM GPU's. So i'm not really sure if that's a valid argument of whatever is causing this.
I'll play test a little more to see if i notice anything other than this one issue.

Hoping that didn't all come of rude or anything.
i'm just betting that whatever fixes the issue on these other Mac's is probably gonna deal with mine also.

Edited by SabitaUsagi
update

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On 11/7/2019 at 3:17 PM, Thelonestander said:

Also, using a boot camp partition does not delete all your stuff it just takes part of your unused space on your hard drive to install it. Even building your own computer may or may not fix all the issues. Some issues are within the game itself which they are working on to fix. Even the best computer in the world would still probably lag. The games a work in progress. And like @EnigmaGreysaid the iso games do take a lot more to load because of the overlapping of building tiles floor tiles and everything it loads. Think of a first person shooter for a sec. you only see what’s in front of you while what is to your side and behind you doesn’t load ie saving vram. And zomboid load the whole map in your cell you see what I’m saying? Driving fast and passing through cell after cell WILL lag due to the loading it has to do. Hell I’ve ran into a problem I start going to fast on roads and I’m met by the black screen till it loads. Just to clarify I’m not mad or attacking you just trying to help explain a bit. 

Yeah I don't exactly have a ton of unused HD space at the moment. I've got a lot of media sorting i've been slacking on.
The thing is a really need a new computer soon anyhow. And still a boot, or VM set-up or wine is still gonna rely on the actual hardware. I figure by the time i get a new system set up and built many of the bugs for build 41 will have been worked out a little more.

 

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28 minutes ago, SabitaUsagi said:

Yeah I don't exactly have a ton of unused HD space at the moment. I've got a lot of media sorting i've been slacking on.
The thing is a really need a new computer soon anyhow. And still a boot, or VM set-up or wine is still gonna rely on the actual hardware. I figure by the time i get a new system set up and built many of the bugs for build 41 will have been worked out a little more.

 

I understand man! Hopefully you'll get yourself a new one without the nvidia card in it!!

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15 hours ago, Thelonestander said:

I understand man! Hopefully you'll get yourself a new one without the nvidia card in it!!

I mean honestly I was planning on a GTX 1080. Mini-ITx Board with a Ryzen 3 CPU. But i'm not planning on building a Mac so the driver issue probably won't be a factor.

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